Circuit of the Americas Formula 1 Race Track - Page 100

Jdawgboy · #**1981** Posted **Oct 29, 2014, 8:22 PM**

I would assume that the figure includes all residual economic activity related to events at the circuit whether connected directly or not. There is no doubt that overall it's been a good thing for the city.

Now we are at 100 pages

KevinFromTexas · #**1982** Posted **Oct 29, 2014, 8:46 PM**

Red Bull's car today driving up and down Congress Avenue.

• Video Link

• Video Link

From 3 years ago.

• Video Link

hookem · #**1983** Posted **Oct 29, 2014, 9:44 PM**

^^ I went to check that out today at noon. Pretty good crowd considering they hardly advertised it.

Also got my ticket for Friday today on Stubhub. $8, including all fees, digital download. I should have purchased my Saturday ticket earlier, they were $35 but now have gone up to about $51, and rising. Might need to go to CL for that one.

KevinFromTexas · #**1984** Posted **Dec 8, 2014, 10:52 AM**

So I got an Xbox 360 for my birthday last month, and so i've been scouring the internet for games. I always loved racing and driving games as a kid. Anyway, I came across this one - Moto GP 2013, which features the Circuit of the Americas, and a few scenes of Austin. I cannot wait to go full geek on this when I get it.

• Video Link

turn1 · #**1985** Posted **Dec 13, 2014, 11:07 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hookem

^^ I went to check that out today at noon. Pretty good crowd considering they hardly advertised it.

Also got my ticket for Friday today on Stubhub. $8, including all fees, digital download. I should have purchased my Saturday ticket earlier, they were $35 but now have gone up to about $51, and rising. Might need to go to CL for that one.

Here are a couple of pics I took at the demo that y'all might like...

turn1 · #**1986** Posted **Dec 15, 2014, 4:03 AM**

2015 USGP tickets going on sale this Wednesday:

http://www.statesman.com/news/sports...tickets/njSJm/

turn1 · #**1987** Posted **Jan 7, 2015, 4:54 AM**

Oof. Looks like there may be more problems looming for COTA.

'Is America's only Formula One track in trouble?'

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/is...ck-in-trouble/

Quote:

How Circuit of the Americas may be facing an uncertain future.

After three Formula One races at the Circuit of the Americas, a 3.4-mile purpose-built road course in Austin, Texas, you might suspect COTA is riding high. You might be wrong.

The Austin Business Journal named COTA one of the stories to watch in 2015 in an end-of-2014 story: “COTA puts on big shows but struggles financially: Despite an estimated $897 million in economic impact, the Circuit of The Americas race track is still a long way from profitability. Attendance dropped again for 2014’s United States Grand Prix, and rumors of an effort by investors to sell the facility persist.”

That’s just the headline. COTA’s economic concerns may lie much deeper than that. Let’s look at how COTA got where it is – the good and the bad.
In the beginning…

Novacek · #**1988** Posted **Jan 7, 2015, 3:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by turn1

Oof. Looks like there may be more problems looming for COTA.

'Is America's only Formula One track in trouble?'

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/is...ck-in-trouble/

That article demonstrates ignorance.

1. Much of it is dedicated to the claim/idea that Texas isn't formally auditing the attendance figures, so it doesn't really know how much to allocate from the METF.

But attendance is mostly meaningless to the METF values! The only thing that matters is the incremental tax revenues (which Texas, not CotA, computes).

<hypothetical>If attendance drops by half, but more oil sheiks show up and spend $2M each, tax revenues go up.

2. And that ABJ quote isn't even a story, it's the caption of a photo. And that's it, what's quoted is the entirety of what ABJ said.

3. Finally, of course CotA is going to plead poverty while they're actively contesting a property bill. They'd want the property appraised at $0 if they can get away with it. Unless they're opening their books, take anything they say on the matter with a grain of salt.

turn1 · #**1989** Posted **Jan 7, 2015, 4:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novacek

That article demonstrates ignorance.

1. Much of it is dedicated to the claim/idea that Texas isn't formally auditing the attendance figures, so it doesn't really know how much to allocate from the METF.

But attendance is mostly meaningless to the METF values! The only thing that matters is the incremental tax revenues (which Texas, not CotA, computes).

<hypothetical>If attendance drops by half, but more oil sheiks show up and spend $2M each, tax revenues go up.

2. And that ABJ quote isn't even a story, it's the caption of a photo. And that's it, what's quoted is the entirety of what ABJ said.

3. Finally, of course CotA is going to plead poverty while they're actively contesting a property bill. They'd want the property appraised at $0 if they can get away with it. Unless they're opening their books, take anything they say on the matter with a grain of salt.

1. Attendance isn't meaningless to the METF. Attendance is a major component that's supposed to be used to determine how much an event is subsidized. Specifically attendance from outside the state. That's how they estimate the tax revenue increase ahead of the event. Read the projection and analysis documents. They refer to attendance repeatedly as support.

2. It's not about how much they said. It's about what they said.

3. Opening their books? Good idea. After nearly $100M in subsidies over 2 years, I'd say the taxpayers deserve a look at those books..

turn1 · #**1990** Posted **Jan 7, 2015, 4:38 PM**

If anyone wants to learn more about this mess, I found several detailed investigative articles that have been written about it in the last few months...

Texans for Public Justice:

$2.6 Million in Contributions Leads to F1 'Oral' Application for $250 Million Taxpayer Handout
http://info.tpj.org/Lobby_Watch/pdf/...a1Contribs.pdf

SA Express-News series:

$250M in State Funding for F1 Track in Question:
http://www.expressnews.com/news/loca...6da73fef585#/0

Comptroller Candidate Calls for Overhaul After Express-News Formula One Investigation:
http://blog.mysanantonio.com/texas-p...investigation/

Epstein Says F1 Made a Verbal Application:
http://www.expressnews.com/news/loca...on-5760115.php

More Doubt Cast on Formula One Application:
http://www.expressnews.com/news/loca...or-5763204.php

Combs Failed the Public on Formula One:
http://m.mysanantonio.com/default/ar...ne-5762668.php

Novacek · #**1991** Posted **Jan 7, 2015, 4:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by turn1

Specifically attendance from outside the state. That's how they estimate the tax revenue increase ahead of the event. Read the projection and analysis documents. They refer to attendance repeatedly as support.

And how is gate attendance (which is what the article was complaining about) supposed to tell you that?

Do the ticket takers at the gate ask for you zip code or passport? Of course not. Out of state attendance is estimated from flight, hotel data, etc. Which CotA doesn't have, but the state does.

Novacek · #**1992** Posted **Jan 7, 2015, 4:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by turn1

If anyone wants to learn more about this mess, I found several detailed investigative articles that have been written about it in the last few months...

Texans for Public Justice:

$2.6 Million in Contributions Leads to F1 'Oral' Application for $250 Million Taxpayer Handout
http://info.tpj.org/Lobby_Watch/pdf/...a1Contribs.pdf

SA Express-News series:

$250M in State Funding for F1 Track in Question:
http://www.expressnews.com/news/loca...6da73fef585#/0

Comptroller Candidate Calls for Overhaul After Express-News Formula One Investigation:
http://blog.mysanantonio.com/texas-p...investigation/

Epstein Says F1 Made a Verbal Application:
http://www.expressnews.com/news/loca...on-5760115.php

More Doubt Cast on Formula One Application:
http://www.expressnews.com/news/loca...or-5763204.php

Combs Failed the Public on Formula One:
http://m.mysanantonio.com/default/ar...ne-5762668.php

Look, I get it, you apparently have some axe to grind with CotA. But why do you keep reposting those _same_ links. Those are the same ones you posted back in September. We've read them already.

turn1 · #**1993** Posted **Jan 7, 2015, 6:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novacek

Look, I get it, you apparently have some axe to grind with CotA. But why do you keep reposting those _same_ links. Those are the same ones you posted back in September. We've read them already.

No axe to grind. I love the track. I'm a taxpayer too, though. I forgot I had already posted those links here. It's been a while. My bad. Feel free to ignore them.

turn1 · #**1994** Posted **Jan 7, 2015, 6:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novacek

And how is gate attendance (which is what the article was complaining about) supposed to tell you that?

Do the ticket takers at the gate ask for you zip code or passport? Of course not. Out of state attendance is estimated from flight, hotel data, etc. Which CotA doesn't have, but the state does.

You don't think there's any relationship between total attendance and attendance from outside the state? Hoyte takes great pains to project high attendance, and the comptroller relies heavily on attendance estimates (from COTA btw) in her 'analyses'. But it doesn't matter. OK.

As for the author's complaints about apparent attendance discrepancies, I'd say it's reasonable to be concerned about out-of-state numbers if the total attendance numbers are questionable.

Novacek · #**1995** Posted **Jan 7, 2015, 7:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by turn1

You don't think there's any relationship between total attendance and attendance from outside the state?

Not in any way that isn't satisfied by statistical methods and margins.

Was attendance 5k, 10k , 50k, 100k, 150k, 200k? Sure, that's useful information and affects the analysis.

Was attendance 167,385 or 167,384? Was Sunday's unique attendance (hadn't previously attended that weekend) 20,654 or 20,653? Not useful or reliable. Especially since we don't know if that person in doubt is a Texas resident or not.

turn1 · #**1996** Posted **Jan 7, 2015, 7:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novacek

Not in any way that isn't satisfied by statistical methods and margins.

Was attendance 5k, 10k , 50k, 100k, 150k, 200k? Sure, that's useful information and affects the analysis.

Was attendance 167,385 or 167,384? Was Sunday's unique attendance (hadn't previously attended that weekend) 20,654 or 20,653? Not useful or reliable. Especially since we don't know if that person in doubt is a Texas resident or not.

He was clearly not talking about small discrepancies like those. He was talking about tens of thousands.

It's interesting that the 2012 announced Sunday attendance was about 117K and COTA said 66K of those came from out of state. In 2013 they announced a reduced attendance of about 113K and said about 77K of those came from out of state.

Novacek · #**1997** Posted **Jan 7, 2015, 8:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by turn1

He was clearly not talking about small discrepancies like those. He was talking about tens of thousands.

It's interesting that the 2012 announced Sunday attendance was about 117K and COTA said 66K of those came from out of state. In 2013 they announced a reduced attendance of about 113K and said about 77K of those came from out of state.

What's interesting about it? Austin residents (never interested in racing before) go the first year, since it's a brand new thing and locally available, and discover they don't care about it. In the meantime, out of state/out of country outreach and advertising improve. Hotel gouging reduces, and more out of state visitors come.

(all the above wild guess on my part, but seems reasonable).

turn1 · #**1998** Posted **Jan 7, 2015, 8:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novacek

What's interesting about it? Austin residents (never interested in racing before) go the first year, since it's a brand new thing and locally available, and discover they don't care about it. In the meantime, out of state/out of country outreach and advertising improve. Hotel gouging reduces, and more out of state visitors come.

(all the above wild guess on my part, but seems reasonable).

Sure, a decrease in-state attendees will drive that % up a bit, but we've heard of no out-of state advertising or promotion other than a few ads on F1 race broadcasts, and no foreign advertising at all. Certainly nothing that's increased or changed dramatically over time to produce a jump from 56% to 68% out-of-state attendance and boost actual out-of-state attendance by 11K people. There was the Andretti hat thing at Monza this year, but that wouldn't affect the above 2012 & 13 numbers.

There's barely any advertising at all outside of Austin. Just a few billboards in SA, Dallas, and Houston.

Anyway, let's hope they can find a way to keep boosting those numbers and make ends meet. Great circuit. I hope we can continue seeing racing there for a long time to come.

hookem · #**1999** Posted **Jan 7, 2015, 9:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by turn1

No axe to grind. I love the track. I'm a taxpayer too, though. I forgot I had already posted those links here. It's been a while. My bad. Feel free to ignore them.

Dude you totally have an axe to grind. Just admit it, no one will think less of you. It's OK to be "for" the good guys and "against" the bad ones.

As a taxpayer, your money will go to politically connected billionaires, period. That's never going to change. Fun to bitch about it, but it's just a fact of life.

hookem · #**2000** Posted **Jan 7, 2015, 9:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novacek

What's interesting about it? Austin residents (never interested in racing before) go the first year, since it's a brand new thing and locally available, and discover they don't care about it. In the meantime, out of state/out of country outreach and advertising improve. Hotel gouging reduces, and more out of state visitors come.

(all the above wild guess on my part, but seems reasonable).

I wonder if we'd have a TATL flight to London or all these new hotels going up if it wasn't for F1. And I wonder how those things would change if CoTA went away.