DENVER | Transportation Thread

[bcp]

^ a ridiculous consolation made to the neighborhood that probably didn't need to be made - those trains are practically silent either way...35, 45 or 55 - you're dead if you walk in front of it.

[bunt_q]

Just think how ridiculous the airport line would be if Northeast Denver had demanded the same concessions.

I was just driving up by 40th and York. And thinking, that is going to be one cool train line. You get on at the airport, you travel through some dirty industrial areas, and then you arrive at Union Station, the whole trip is far and fast. That line will just not feel like Denver.

[bcp]

and don't forget those sweet rail-cars..

[Scottk]

just imagine someone taking one of the lufthansa non stops from Europe into Denver, and landing at our fabulous airport. Clear customs and walk out to the very impressive DIA train station. Wait no more than 10 or 15 minutes for a train. Hop onto the incredible train, which has it's own dedicated ROW almost the entire time. Exit the train at the brand new union station....

pretty cool

[bcp]

^ and then walk to 200-300 bars / restaurants...Denver's making a serious leap soon!

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by bcp

^ and then walk to 200-300 bars / restaurants...Denver's making a serious leap soon!

200-300 transit-riding direct-flight Tokyo-ites stumbling from one bar to 200-300 others...can't wait. Only a matter of time until we start seeing tables full of brightly colored weirdly frocked high-heels-and-feather-wearing Japanese girls sitting at the Denver Beer Company.

[bcp]

^ DDP new mission statement, if only we could add paris / rome

[Scottk]

I really think that the airport line is going to be the "crown jewel" of Denver's transit system.

So exciting

[Wizened Variations]

Let's take a peak at some other trains that travel from airports to city centers (and points in between).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4mfENawgNs The trip from Nippori Train Station to Narita Airport terminal two. Top speed 160km/h (99 mph)

This is an express train-note that it passes numerous stations, something which the Airport line should have the option to do. The line is multipurpose, i.e., the line is not confined to airport traffic- there are local trains on the line.

The Airport Line should concentrate on more frequent service from Peoria Station to Lodo during rush hours. This would require one extra commuter rail track at that station. Every effort should be made to develop traffic at Peoria, Central Park, 40th/Colorado, and, 38th and Blake. Peoria should be developed into a platform to platform via tunnel or pedestrian overpass connections.

Perhaps the best airport commuter opportunities, outside of those who are dropped off at East line stations, will be those who use bus services. Perhaps a 35 minute bus radius into the DUS train station would be max, but, again this removes most potential riders who must transfer between buses to get to DUS, and, further reduces the number of riders based upon how long getting to a bus stop, waiting for the bus, transferring between buses etc. (This also applies to feeder bus services into the I-225 Rail line.)

In my opinion unless commuter traffic is targeted via good user interfaces and more frequent service from Peoria Station to DUS, the costs of the East line will not be recaptured.

The DUS-Bus-Light Rail Complex is, as I have always maintained the weak link in the entire system, which can only be remedied now at titanic expense via elevated or buried southbound heavy rail connections and by extending the light rail through the light rail station at DUS further east to 39th and Blake, perhaps looping with the light rail extension from 30th and Downing to 38th and Blake already planned.

Of course, nothing that logical will be built anytime soon, and, when, and if, such changes are made many, many billions will need to be spent, new (between 1998 and 20??) buildings demolished.

Then we will have a world class system (with too many steps to enter and exit trains, but that is another story.)

Remember that a huge percentage of those traveling to DIA will be at least 80 minutes away by public transportation, outside of those who live close to the DUS Station complex, even after the East line is completed. This includes most of the metro area West of 1-25, and, those fortunate enough to be within 10 minute travel distance to the W line, West of Wadsworth. Most will not be so lucky, and, public transportation times will be even longer.

However, this is tempered by a correct argument which can be raised about the time value cost of money involved in saving parking fees, with the airports long term parking taking a beating. This is a time-value-cost-of money judgment, which, IMO would involve time periods over 3 days.


(I do grant the bragging rights by the powers at be that Denver will have a rail line to Lodo..)

**********

One of the most beautiful trains in history had it's first run in 1997. The JR 500. The trains are being pulled as 15 years is considered the life time of Shinkansen equipment.

Note how the train is elevated, etc, in Tokyo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aP0t...ttTk9g&index=2

This is being replace by the more efficient, slightly less attractive E6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzO3h...Pkht5G2YfL7WX4

Are we proud of our trains?

[bunt_q]

Let me be blunt. I don't give a rat's a** what they are doing in Tokyo.

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Let me be blunt. I don't give a rat's a** what they are doing in Tokyo.

Rather provincial for an educated man, Bunt?

[bunt_q]

Not provincial at all. Practical. What is provincial is actually your blind envy of larger cities. The educated man - the sophisticated bumpkin - uses the right tool for the right job. And there is nothing about the fundamental characteristics of our land use and urban fabric that make Denver's transportation demands even remotely comparable to Tokyo's. The educated man advocates for the best transportation systems for the city he has; not for the city he wishes he had. (While simultaneously advocating for the city he wishes he had. But transportation never leads - there is nothing prudent or wise about building more than you need or can afford.)

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

The educated man advocates for the best transportation systems for the city he has; not for the city he wishes he had.

Stop channeling Rumsfeld. And stop giving Wizened another opportunity to launch a 2000-word piece on the planning failures at Union Station.

[Wizened Variations]

Have many of us have actually taken the light rail at DUS station between 4 and 5pm on week days?

I did, yesterday, on Columbus Day, and, the station was at saturation. Trains were arriving as frequently as once every 3 minutes, the end tracks were full of waiting trains, people were scurrying in front of trains on the inbound track, and, the train schedule screen was not keeping up.

So, I wondered about the future, when the light rail really gets busy, and, looked back at the day the W line opened and I talked to an RTD employee who said that so many trains were arriving at DUS Light Rail (due to the free ride, in part) that the ability to switch tracks for outbound trains was being compromised. And, I thought about what the station will be like when (not if) passenger traffic doubles or even triples.

A) Trains will be packed.

The W train will have to be four cars long. Hundreds of riders will cross the inbound track from the bus station as well as from packed shuttles. Switching will be intense (why didn't RTD add a couple of more dead end tracks further east and permit quicker switching for four car trains? And don't tell me it was a land issue!)

C and E trains will be packed outbound during afternoon rush, as light rail trains MUST service the W station and go down the Central corridor to the south, as trains cannot originate anywhere but DUS Light Rail Station. I was amazed at how many people transferred from east bound W trains onto the C (and later E) trains (between 30 and 50% of passenger load).

Osage Station had large numbers of people cramped on the too narrow platform as is, and, will become even more dangerous as even more people transfer from the D and F trains to either go to DUS Light or to transfer again to take the W train west (the Alameda and Broadway Stations cannot be depended upon to take all the transfer traffic). (In addition, W line originating passengers that want Colfax at Auraria Station access, and, stations on the D line further east.) Only the Broadway Station has the capacity to handle more embarking and disembarking as the north bound traffic is split over two tracks, and, as the platforms are very wide.

B) Solutions

1. DUS Light Rail Station

Add a new platform between tracks 2 and 3, fence off track 1 to the south and make underground connections.

Fence off the inbound rail track, and put a tunnel under tracks 1 and 2, with gentle ramps unto the existing platform, and, a second connecting a new north platform. Make the tunnel west of the exit from the underground bus station, as bus routing prevents that underground option from extending further north.

Move the power transform bank between 19th and 20th Streets, and, both extend the 3 tracks and add 1 or two more dead end tracks at that location. (the area is being built up at a fast rate, and, any other option would require structure demolition.)

2. Fix the mess between Sports Authority Station and Osage Station. Traffic during rush hours is under 3 minutes per train northbound, and southbound. Finish the job that the original 3 track station was designed for, and build the 3rd track. Straighten out the right of way at the Sports Authority Station and eliminate the ridiculous curve between the Bronco Station and the Auraria Station. This would provide room to better integrate the switch fiasco that exists now at Auraria West, lessen the danger for light rail engineers, and increase station user safety. Close the Sport Authority Station except for Broncos games- show schedule changes this would entail on station display screens. Realign the connection between the Auraria West Broadway Station bound rails to the south of Colfax Viaduct.

3. Widen Osage Station (and deal with the railroad, please and widen the property to the West). A third track set up would be ideal with the switching between DUS and California/Stout Station tracks perform near Osage Station and not under the Colfax Viaduct.

Do this and the traffic load into DUS Light could triple or even quadruple, which would FORCE solving revolving connections to Market Street Station.

Regardless, IMO, this traffic load increase is inevitable.

[The Dirt]

I saw this in my inbox several weeks ago. Is anyone interested in applying (please not Wizened)?

Media Contact
Roger Sherman
Citizens Advisory Committee Facilitator
303-592-5465
rsherman at crlassociates dot com


RTD FasTracks Citizens Advisory Committee Seeks New Members Community service experience, interest in public transit both pluses

DENVER, Sept. 19, 2013 — The citizens group responsible for advising the Regional Transportation District (RTD) on its FasTracks program is seeking new committee members who have a passion for community engagement and are interested in public transit issues.

The FasTracks Citizens Advisory Committee (CAC) is inviting letters of application from individuals interested in serving on the all-volunteer panel. Applicants will be considered for positions expiring in December and for those that open next year.

The 17-member committee advises RTD on matters relating to its voter-approved FasTracks program. Members represent a wide variety of interests, backgrounds and professional experiences, and their public outreach meetings keep Denver-area citizens abreast of FasTracks progress and provide opportunities for input by local communities.

“We have an important mission and our group relies on the participation of informed citizens of Denver-area communities who can join us in guiding and imparting advice to RTD as it moves forward with the FasTracks implementation,” said CAC co-chair David Lewis. “We look forward to receiving applications from people who truly want to make a difference.”

Individuals interested in applying for a position on the CAC should submit letters of interest to Dale.Honor@rtd-denver.com. Letters must be received by the close of business on Friday, Oct. 25, 2013, and should include:

A brief statement of interest in serving on the committee.
Specific qualifications for serving on the CAC.
Highlights of related experience and expertise.
A résumé.

For more information, contact Roger Sherman at 303-592-5465.

The CAC receives staff updates on FasTracks projects, budget and schedule matters, the small and disadvantaged business program and quality management guidelines. Committee members provide region-oriented advice to RTD Board of Directors on FasTracks issues; review and provide comment on various FasTracks reports; and promote public awareness and understanding of the FasTracks program and its implementation. The group meets quarterly around the eight-county RTD region and holds monthly work sessions as needed. Members serve a three-year term.

Appointments to the panel shall be made to ensure a broad representation of stakeholder interests, to achieve diversity and to provide geographical representation within the district.

Selection criteria will include, but not be limited to, residency within the RTD region; a demonstrated interest in public transit and the FasTracks program; previous community service; experience working with local jurisdictions on regional issues; and professional expertise.

# # #

About the Citizens Advisory Committee
TThe Citizens Advisory Committee (CAC) receives updates on the progress of the FasTracks program, provides region-oriented advice to the RTD Board of Directors, reviews and comments on RTD’s annual FasTracks report to the Denver Regional Council of Governments, and promotes public awareness and understanding of the FasTracks program and its implementation. The committee also holds monthly work sessions. Additional information about the CAC can be found at http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/main_11.

About FasTracks
FasTracks is RTD’s voter-approved transit expansion program to build 122 miles of commuter rail and light rail, 18 miles of bus rapid transit (BRT) service, add 21,000 new parking spaces, redevelop Union Station in Denver and redirect bus service to better connect the eight-county district. For more information, visit www.rtd-denver.com.

[bcp]

i was thinking about it...anybody else?

[Scottk]

I don't know why you guys always make fun of wizened...

He does point out some of the flaws associated with fasttracks, the most serious being the stub station design. I actually find his posts insightful. And they certainly offer a fresh perspective on things, which is never bad.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by bcp

i was thinking about it...anybody else?

Got your message. Slow to reply. We should both do this. Let's talk.

[LAM]

Originally Posted by Wizened Variations

Let's take a peak at some other trains that travel from airports to city centers (and points in between).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4mfENawgNs The trip from Nippori Train Station to Narita Airport terminal two. Top speed 160km/h (99 mph)

Very cool stuff in Japan. Although I've taken the Narita Express on a few occasions it never seems to be going that fast. My favorite, Colorado Proud, part of the route is the first town after Narita Airport is the town of Narita and it has a giant Sports Authority store and sign prominently facing the line.

[DenverRider2]

So the city is resurfacing broadway between civic center and 5th avenue without any consideration for improving bus, bike or ped infrastructure. Does Denver's complete streets policy really have so little teeth? This is what broadway should look like-



Instead we are getting more of this-