NEW YORK | City Struggles With Population of Times Square

[10023]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

That's what subways are for. I'm afraid I can't feel sorry for you losing road space to pedestrian space when you have multiple transit routes to choose from between Downtown and the UWS. Considering the subway coverage and population density, Manhattan should probably lose a few more streets.

The last time I took the NRQ at night the train stopped for an hour due to signal failure. I don't take the subway at night, and never have (especially in the summer when it's too damn hot down there, period).

Times Square is, self-evidently, quite successful as it is. There's no need to seriously inconvenience Manhattanites by making it even more of a tourist playground.

Also, New Yorkers seem able to cross the streets just fine with traffic. The congestion in Times Square is because of thousands of tourists milling around taking pictures, getting lost and generally being in the way. No amount of pedestrianization will fix that.

[Crawford]

The issue in Times Square isn't pedestrian volume. It's pedestrians lingering about, which is fine, but the cause of the congestion.

The Penn Station area (34th Street/7th Ave.) actually has much higher pedestrian volume than Times Square but it's just commuters, for the most part. So you don't have the same congestion issues, even though the volume is actually greater. Notice that Shibuya Crossing, which probably has the highest pedestrian volume in the world, doesn't have the same congestion issues as Times Square. I assume it's mostly people just going to work or various destinations.

[dc_denizen]

Yeah, Penn Station is at 3x its design capacity,600,000 passengers per day. You literally will get trampled if you stand around the waiting areas for the LIRR or NJ transit, or the ACE train.

Moynihan station can't come soon enough, get Amtrak out of there.

[fleonzo]

Originally Posted by chris08876

For comparison:

• Video Link

1) 0:08 From the Spanish steps (Best vantage point for crowds)
2) 0:36 Spanish steps at night


Times Square (at 0:22 mark)

• Video Link

I think we (NYC) might have over done it with the lights....I avoid it like the plaque unless we have out of town guests/family who make us take them!

[mhays]

I assume that Shibuya's millions per day are often just transferring in the station and don't go outside.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Got nothing on Shibuya.

Originally Posted by chris08876

I wonder how Shibuya compares if we consider the surrounding square mile for both cities in terms of peak pedestrian density and vehicles?

This isn't about Shibuya.

This is about how the city handles the "problem" of over success with its plan to transform Times Square.

To understand that is to understand that it's being perceived as a problem for the office workers in and around the area who have difficulty with the crowds.

Now, considering the plan to transform Times Square specifically involved bringing those office workers there - an area well known as a tourists destination even in the seedier days - was there any other alternative? Was the outcome not to be expected? And what can be done now to alleviate the situation short of a tenant exodus out of the area - which wouldn't be good.

I think there is some solution if the district is extended down Broadway to 34th Street and maybe 7th as well. Let the tourists thin out a little. That way, you don't lose the tourists (and their dollars), and everyone breathes a little easier. Not that it wouldn't be crowded - it's still Midtown - but things wouldn't have to come to a complete stop. New Yorkers know how to navigate crowds and crowded sidewalks. It's when things aren't moving that people become annoyed.

But whatever the solution, it had better come soon, as tourism only grows in the City.


http://www.rew-online.com/2015/02/04...all-time-high/

New York City tourism numbers hit all-time high


FEBRUARY 4, 2015

New York City reached an all-time record 56.4 million visitors in 2014.

These visitors generated a record $61.3 billion in overall economic impact, supporting 359,000 tourism related jobs and $21 billion in wages.

The City’s hotel sector reached 102,000 hotel rooms last year, while selling a record 32.4 million total hotel room nights, an all-time high. The tourism industry also generated $3.7 billion in local tax revenues.

Of the 56.4 million visitors who came to New York City in 2014, 44.2 million came from U.S./domestic locations, while 12.2 million came from international locations.

New York City is the nation’s number one big city destination, the number one port-of-entry for foreign visitors, the number one city for tourism spending, and has the highest share of overseas visitation to the U.S. — approximately one-third.

Top market performers continue to reflect the strong pull of New York City in the international arena, where visitors stay longer and spend more, with the leading international markets being the United Kingdom, Canada, Brazil, France, China, Australia and Germany, in that order.

To be clear, not all tourists end up in Times Square, but it is one of the major focal points.

[NYguy]

Of course, not everyone will be happy with a move from the "crossroads of the world" as it used to be known, to an area that's still in transformation...


http://nypost.com/2015/02/25/conde-n...-up-with-1wtc/

By Kirsten Fleming
February 25, 2015

...In November, the storied publisher — whose other titles include Vanity Fair, GQ and Bon Appétit — made a long-awaited move from 4 Times Square to the soaring 104-story 1 WTC. (Condé takes up floors 20 through 44.)

But the migration from the Crossroads of the World to a relatively desolate and construction-filled area of the Financial District has not been without its hiccups — and detractors.

...Even Vogue editrix Anna Wintour, the biggest cheerleader for the building, addressed the lack of amenities in the area in the magazine’s February issue.

“It will be fascinating to see how the landscape is transformed (I hope one result will be an outpost of Starbucks a little closer to the office),” she wrote.

...there are few lunch options outside the building, and Seamless isn’t exactly efficient. Many magazine employees say it takes more than an hour to get their grub, and the delivery guys can’t even find the entrance to the building.

“They have everything in Times Square — sushi, salads, pizza,” says the Vogue staffer. “Brookfield is expensive. I am not paying $20 for a salad,” she says, referring to the high-end mall across the street and its pricey Hudson Eats food court.

Some are still making the trek to Midtown to the Lambs Club, the 44th Street power lunch spot that was always thought of as an extension of the Condé cafeteria.

...And for a tower housing some of the most elite editors in the fashion and beauty biz, the dearth of nail and blowout salons has caused a kink in grooming routines.

“There are literally no places to get your nails done, but in Midtown you could go anytime and find a salon,” says the Vogue wag.

[Gantz]

the delivery guys can’t even find the entrance to the building

We have the same problem at 4 WTC nearby. A lot of the streets are blocked off and there are no signs leading to the entrance, the entrances are not clearly marked at all, and do not stand out at ground level... so people circle around the building trying to find a way to get in.

Hopefully, once everything is finished it would be better.

[chris08876]

^^

Yeah that is a pain. Whole area is a labyrinth, although it has gotten better over the years. With streets in the area, a couple will be sealed off for for future developments such as the area near 111 Murray. Once the transportation hub finished, it should add some order to the area. Since the opening of the memorial, it has fixed some of the confusion on the South side. All of downtown is very unfriendly when it comes to streets and construction. Seems to be easier in midtown, given the larger avenues.

Anyways, with Times Square, once they finish that plaza it will alleviate some of the pedestrian congestion.



A giant construction site in the pic above.

[chris08876]

This is kinda neat. FIgured I'd share it here because we don't really have a dedicated Times Square thread.

=========================

This ecologist wants to plant a “pop-up” forest in Times Square



• Video Link

Marielle Anzelone, a botanist and urban ecologist, wants to grow a forest in Times Square … overnight.

Anzelone launched a Kickstarter campaign today, asking backers to help raise $25,000 by April 17 to transform a chunk of the glitziest block on Earth into a forest. The installation, which she’s calling PopUP Forest: Times Square, would feature shipping containers filled with trees, flowers, and soil, with the sounds of birds and other wildlife piped in from nearby woods.

The goal, said Anzelone, is to put the spotlight on the thousands of acres of New York City that are not paved over, and need additional protection. “At the end of the day it’s about helping people see that nature exists in cities,” said Anzelone, “and its real nature, not necessarily weeds.”

If the campaign makes its fundraising goal, the money will go toward creating a design and a prototype in Brooklyn. After that, she’ll seek sponsorship money to find the final project — and of course the green light from the Times Square Alliance board. (But hey, they have experience handling outlandish projects like this — after all, they’ve dropped a giant ball from a skyscraper every year since 1904.)

If the project proposal is approved, the forest will pop up in June 2016, staying up for three weeks before being dissembled, its parts distributed around local parks and schoolyards. Anzelone hopes the final result will be “a crazy PR event for nature.”

=============================
http://grist.org/cities/this-ecologi...-times-square/

[kilbride102]

This is where these nuts need to stop. If I'm not mistaken there is a large centrally located park 15 blocks from times sq. Due we really need to devote less space for the thousands and thousands of people already crammed into that area?

[10023]

^ Manhattan doesn't have enough parks, and replacing tourist schlock with trees is never a bad idea.

[chris08876]

Its temporary though. Think of it being like an art project similar to the waterfalls around the rivers. Those where pretty cool. I wish those where permanent, but like this, its all temporary. The square is always doing things like this. If its week long concerts or giant hearts for Valentine's Day and so on.

[Dac150]

Very neat concept - would love to experience it.

[iheartthed]

I'm content with letting the tourists have that place. My office is 2-3 blocks north of Times Square and I walk through that place maybe 5 times a year (in a good year). I can appreciate a good landmark just but it always seems odd to me how fascinated people are with that place, and how they always seem like they're discovering something that a billion other people haven't seen before.

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I'm content with letting the tourists have that place. My office is 2-3 blocks north of Times Square and I walk through that place maybe 5 times a year (in a good year). I can appreciate a good landmark just but it always seems odd to me how fascinated people are with that place, and how they always seem like they're discovering something that a billion other people haven't seen before.

Just in general with this city. In terms of cities, this place is like a big piece of addictive crack. It just gets you the minute you see it for the first time, and as the plane leaves from JFK to a destination most likely provincial in comparison, it draws sadness and envy. You want more, and fantasize a life living here (for those who don't live here or near it).

I remember taking some relatives from Europe on my aunts side who live in a small village in Portugal five years ago, and they where blown away. To go from an area of low density, where the tallest structure or thing is often a tree humbles one.

Its interesting to people watch and see the euphoric daze that often accompanies foreign and domestic visitors. For people like me and you, we know the city so its not new for us, but I remember the first time I went, and the second, and third. It was epic. Still is, but I rarely have that epic first-time natural high that I had when I was younger coming here for the first time. Still happens, but not at that magnitude.

[streetscaper]

Originally Posted by chris08876

Just in general with this city. In terms of cities, this place is like a big piece of addictive crack. It just gets you the minute you see it for the first time, and as the plane leaves from JFK to a destination most likely provincial in comparison, it draws sadness and envy. You want more, and fantasize a life living here (for those who don't live here or near it).

I remember taking some relatives from Europe on my aunts side who live in a small village in Portugal five years ago, and they where blown away. To go from an area of low density, where the tallest structure or thing is often a tree humbles one.

Its interesting to people watch and see the euphoric daze that often accompanies foreign and domestic visitors. For people like me and you, we know the city so its not new for us, but I remember the first time I went, and the second, and third. It was epic. Still is, but I rarely have that epic first-time natural high that I had when I was younger coming here for the first time. Still happens, but not at that magnitude.

QFT

When family and friends are visiting for the first time, my favorite thing to do is to show them around. It's almost like I'm rediscovering the city through their own eyes, and I get that gitty feeling more than I do when passing through sites and neighborhoods on my own (which is already pretty gitty).

[chris08876]

Plaza Construction Update:

Using Earthcam (3/21/15):

As we can see, large scale construction causes lots of crowding.

[streetscaper]

And yet they're gonna take the sweet old time with construction.. ridiculous. It's supposed to be all done by this summer I'm assuming/hoping

[chris08876]

The official site says "expected in 2015" so possibly. This has taken 5 years though. The plaza started in 2010. The only time they quickly rushed was the Southern portion, and it was because New Years Eve 2014 was approaching. But I'm glad its almost finished. Given the high traffic volume both of foot and vehicle, I could understand why it takes a while but there are times I walked by, and not a single worker in sight. I remember the old Times Square was very pedestrai hostile, and this has really turned the place around. Some say it looks like Disney World, but its still better than what was there pre 2010.