If immigrants aren't richer than native-born, why costlier cities higher % immigrant

[jd3189]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Oh, and Flatbush was mentioned. Flatbush is definitely being gentrified. The affluent white population is exploding and the black West Indian population is in relative decline. But Carribeans will probably still be the plurality for some time, given it's a solid homeowner area full of city workers.

I have a friend from work (white, late 30's, hipsterish) who just bought a Flatbush fixer-upper rowhouse for $1.2 million. He has a wife and three small kids.

Oh man! I guess most of Brooklyn has been penetrated by hipsters. Let's see if they can get into Queens. Thank God NYC is large enough to not be totally affected by gentrification in one generation.

[pdxtex]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Immigrants according to statistics, in terms of averages, have less wealth or income than native-born Americans.

Yet expensive cities like NYC, the Bay Area etc. have double-digit percentages of immigrants (like one in three people or more are foreign born).

Are the foreign born individuals in these cities just the ones that happen to be richer? Or they are much more willing to sacrifice personal wealth, in order to live in a city that has the diverse amenities or ethnic communities they'd like, and make that trade off versus living in a lower cost area that don't have such communities.

Or are they much more thrifty with lifestyles to afford it (eg. they have cultural values that involve saving more, or immigrant families might be larger and more family members share a house)?

because those cities are major points of entry with established immigrant communities....

[muppet]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

London seems different from North American cities in terms of how strong racial segregation appears relative to class segregation.

It seems like over there class and immigration history is relatively speaking a stronger force for segregation than race in and of itself -- so, working class whites and working class blacks have more in common and share neighborhoods way more than rich immigrant whites and blacks. In the US, you don't really see this much at all.

The secret is just to mix the classes. This has long been a Victorian tradition, whereby rich neighbourhoods were built in poor ones to add cachet and push up their prices (a rich new development in a posh area was yawn inducing, one in a down at heel area caught the headlines).

Today it's continued due to the neverending series of housing bubbles - property is so expensive and lucrative people don't care where they're buying, just so long as it turns a profit. Posh middle class villas will have properties on the street subdivided into bedsits for the poor, apartments for the middle classes and entire mansion blocks for the rich, all on the same street. Meanwhile tower blocks, once highrise ghettoes have become some of the most profitable properties in the world, with legions of middle class 'pioneers' refurbishing these spacious flats - and of course all their children, rich or poor will be mixing. In the long run this means classes mix. Newly arrived immigrants, who are poor, will find themselves with access to middle class opportunities rather than being stuck in a poor ghetto- they can build relationships, jobs, clientele and importantly - education - with the middle classes just by dint of living in the same neighbourhoods. Over the years poor immigrants became the middle class, starting a cyclical system with newcomers, more so nowadays as the global elite buy up properties to park their money and form the upper class - at first the Arabs, Germans and Americans, giving way to the French, Chinese and Russians, now the Africans, Lat Am, Indians and Italians.

In retrospect the govt was actually quite racist and divisive to begin with (actively trying to create ghettoes back in the 50s), but the mixing of classes usurped all that.

[tdawg]

What happened in Brooklyn is definitely happening in Queens, at least Western Queens (Sunnyside, Long Island City, Astoria). We're paying 2 1/2 times what we were paying 3 years ago for our 2 BR/1 BA on the Astoria waterfront, partly because the entire building was gut renovated—it's happening all over the neighborhood; renovations, additions, and new construction.