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  #841  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2007, 6:57 PM
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Originally Posted by honte View Post
^ Yeah, but where are the decisions being made? Where are the charitable contributions going? Ultimately, where do the biggest salaries get earned and where is this income spent?
Valid points of course, but conversely isn't there a promenade or some such in Millenium Park named after Chase?

I guess the short of it is, globalization and consolidation/mergers aren't necessarily bad, but it depends on the stewardship and respect displayed by the acquiring firm. Kraft is now independent and publicly traded again (woohoo for a 'new' Fortune 500 public company in the Chicago area), but even while it was part of Altria it still had a greater connection to Chicago than the East Coast.
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  #842  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2007, 7:29 PM
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Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
Right, isn't Chicago 2nd in the country in terms of the number of employees in the banking field, or some other similar metric? It really does come down to how you measure it. Would anyone seriously argue that Cleveland or Charlotte are bigger financial/banking centers, just because they have banks headquartered there?
Here's what I managed to find with a google search


http://pages.sbcglobal.net/samclark/dallas/Banking2.jpg

Look at the number of institutions and number of offices. I'll take 300 office managers making 150k over 1 CEO making 3mil. Also, the high number of institutions creates more competition, more loan opportunities for businesses and individuals, and in the end lower interest rates. Chicago's decline as a "banking center" is greatly overstated.
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  #843  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2007, 8:22 PM
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Originally Posted by VivaLFuego View Post
Valid points of course, but conversely isn't there a promenade or some such in Millenium Park named after Chase?
They chiseled off the Bank One name after the park opened. Decision was probably made when it was still FirstChicago.
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  #844  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2007, 2:08 AM
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Man, this is freakin' comedy. I'm watching the Palatine plan commission meeting talking about that proposal I posted pictures of.

One of the commission members is asking about how the 5 story building is going to 'tower' over the neighborhood, and she seriously asked if they'd done wind tunnel testing to see if this 'huge tall building' is going to funnel the wind and make the streets 'unliveable'.

Seriously, it's a 5 story building, and these podunk suburbanites are freaking out. Too big, too many people, the people who move there may have kids that will clog the schools, and there's not nearly enough parking.

They're also freaking out because the land use guide was for 79 units and the developer plans 109, and accusing the developer of pure graft for wanting to clog downtown Palatine with people.
Oh, the horror, people living downtown.

Well look at this, a woman is addressing the committee and telling them how rediculous they're being. Sanity reigns!!
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  #845  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2007, 3:31 AM
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Originally Posted by aaron38 View Post
Man, this is freakin' comedy. I'm watching the Palatine plan commission meeting talking about that proposal I posted pictures of.

One of the commission members is asking about how the 5 story building is going to 'tower' over the neighborhood, and she seriously asked if they'd done wind tunnel testing to see if this 'huge tall building' is going to funnel the wind and make the streets 'unliveable'.

Seriously, it's a 5 story building, and these podunk suburbanites are freaking out. Too big, too many people, the people who move there may have kids that will clog the schools, and there's not nearly enough parking.

They're also freaking out because the land use guide was for 79 units and the developer plans 109, and accusing the developer of pure graft for wanting to clog downtown Palatine with people.
Oh, the horror, people living downtown.

Well look at this, a woman is addressing the committee and telling them how rediculous they're being. Sanity reigns!!
You should have heard the uproar when a 4 story was proposed in Madison that would double public library space within the mixed use and be rife with parking.

People everything, including shadows (from across the street, no less). I loled and then cried to be back into Chicago.
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  #846  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2007, 5:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Marcu View Post
Here's what I managed to find with a google search


http://pages.sbcglobal.net/samclark/dallas/Banking2.jpg

Look at the number of institutions and number of offices. I'll take 300 office managers making 150k over 1 CEO making 3mil. Also, the high number of institutions creates more competition, more loan opportunities for businesses and individuals, and in the end lower interest rates. Chicago's decline as a "banking center" is greatly overstated.
Chicago owes this fact greatly to O'hare because it eliminates collection float as much as possible.
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  #847  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2007, 5:17 AM
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Originally Posted by simcityaustin View Post
Chicago owes this fact greatly to O'hare because it eliminates collection float as much as possible.
Can you explain what this means?

Thanks
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  #848  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2007, 1:21 PM
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^ Anything else actually newsworthy in the piece about State St., or was it a lot of fluff?
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  #849  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2007, 1:30 PM
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Will globalization produce some losers? Certaily. But I'm not sure taking one particular situation, such as the layoff of a few thousand workers immediately after a buyout, really presents the whole story. I'm also not sure the banking stuff is accurate since it really depends on what ou measure. I've seen some contrary evidence on this forum. In any case, I’ll take the NA headquarters of a worldwide bank or even the Midwest headquarters of a national bank over the worldwide headquarters of a regional mid-size bank any day. And that’s what really separates a global city from a typical Midwestern town, where there’s a litany of “hometown” banks that market themselves as “being pro local business” (whether that’s actually true is questionable). We can't really be a global city without being connected economy.

The Crains article talks about Lasalle getting out of mid-size lending but it doesn’t address whether that market would really suffer. My guess would be that it’s fairly saturated and that’s the reason Lasalle is getting out. And if that lending market will shrink, it's probably for the better - a contraction of higher risk loans that should have never been issued to begin with.
Agreed. Does anyone really think the Chicago market would go underserved? If there actually was a situation (unlikely) in which a particular banking submarket in the metro was not served very well, someone would come in and pounce on it very quickly.


Although I welcome embracing globalization (and figuring out how to capitalize on it) as the only realistic way to make sure Chicago thrives economically, I do have one worry (this was touched on earlier by others). That is, I'm disappointed with the amount of major entrepreneurial activity currently. That is one area where scores of other metros seem to be much more successful of late...
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  #850  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2007, 1:37 PM
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Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop View Post
I do have one worry (this was touched on earlier by others). That is, I'm disappointed with the amount of major entrepreneurial activity currently. That is one area where scores of other metros seem to be much more successful of late...
It's the nature of Midwesterners. We are all far too conservative and don't like to take risks.
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  #851  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2007, 3:44 PM
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It's the nature of Midwesterners. We are all far too conservative and don't like to take risks.
And we also always build really little flat houses miles apart and have no reason to build vertical
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  #852  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2007, 5:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcu View Post
Can you explain what this means?

Thanks
Sure, it just means that businesses send all their checks to O'Hare because planes are flying in their so often and the banks pick up the checks from airport multiple times a day to 'clear' the checks (the business gets their money..aka.it moves from Accounts Recievable to actual cash) thus the time where the check is given to the business and time until redeemed is the 'floating' time, know in the business world as collection float.
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  #853  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2007, 5:54 PM
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Originally Posted by trvlr70 View Post
It's the nature of Midwesterners. We are all far too conservative and don't like to take risks.
Also, perhaps if the governor succeeds in his boneheaded tax reform, we can kill off all of what little entrepreneurship we have in Chicago...
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  #854  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2007, 6:48 PM
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Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop View Post
Also, perhaps if the governor succeeds in his boneheaded tax reform, we can kill off all of what little entrepreneurship we have in Chicago...
Right, and encourage vertical integration (or simply moving operations out of state altogether), thereby eliminating the tax base we're hoping to exploit.

Last edited by VivaLFuego; Apr 4, 2007 at 6:53 PM.
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  #855  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2007, 7:09 PM
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Right, and encourage vertical integration (or simply moving operations out of state altogether), thereby eliminating the tax base we're hoping to exploit.
I'm glad to see that there is a general consensus on how idiotic this tax proposal is. Just imagine the effect this will have on real estate in the state. A project like the Spire will have gross receipts of over $1.5 billion yet the developer wlll be lucky to make somewhere around 20 million (if that). 1.9% of $1.5 billion is $28.5 million. So the tax will be substantially higher than the money the developer would actually take home.

Also, avoiding the tax would essentially amount to an accounting trick on the part of companies in Illinois. Instead of selling the service directly, sell it to a subsidiary in Indiana which will see it to the customer.
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  #856  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2007, 9:57 PM
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Bag's wish is to become president and he will do it on the backs of the Illinois people. Make us happy we get a tax cut in the short term and by the time people realize we are bleeding out corporations because of this tax increase he will be in a higher level job.
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  #857  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2007, 11:24 PM
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Bag's wish is to become president and he will do it on the backs of the Illinois people. Make us happy we get a tax cut in the short term and by the time people realize we are bleeding out corporations because of this tax increase he will be in a higher level job.

Oh lord. Well I guess the good news is that the bill in its current form is pretty much DOA (the House won't buy it). The question is: how much does it get amended? Hopefully a lot. It's funny - a couple years ago he made the news by implying that his (I think this is what he said) father-in-law (Ald. Dick Mell) had a lack of "testicular fortitude" (whatever exactly that is). Whatever the precise definition is, it is clear with his lame tax plan that he has none of it. If he did, he would undertake the difficult work that is necessary to acheive some of his laudable social goals (education funding equity, access to health care, etc) by doing what everyone knows is necessary - increasing the state income tax and decreasing property taxes. Also, anyone with the most basic understanding of economics knows that in the end it is consumer taxpayers that pay just about all tax anyway (businesses are for the most part just tax collectors), as tax is passed on to the taxpaying consumer public in the form of higher prices, lower demand for goods and services, etc...
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Last edited by SamInTheLoop; Apr 5, 2007 at 12:17 AM.
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  #858  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2007, 11:35 PM
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Oh lord. Well I guess the good news is that the bill in its current form is pretty much DOA (the House won't buy it). The question is: how much does it get amended? Hopefully a lot. It's funny - a couple years ago he made the news by implying that his (I think this is what he said) father-in-law (Ald. Dick Mell) had a lack of "testicular fortitude" (whatever exactly that is). Whatever the precise definition is, it is clear with his lame tax plan that he has none of it. Also, anyone with the most basic understanding of economics knows that in the end it is consumer taxpayers that pay just about all tax anyway (businesses are for the most part just tax collectors), as tax is passed on to the taxpaying consumer public in the form of higher prices, lower demand for goods and services, etc...
I sure hope so.

Gov needs new idea, and he needs it now
(http://www.suntimes.com/news/comment...its04a.article)

April 4, 2007

There's a reason why Gov. Blagojevich is barnstorming the state trying to drum up public support for his proposed new gross receipts tax on business. It's because his idea is going nowhere in Springfield. It's not just that Republicans and business groups are raising a ruckus. Blagojevich can't even get key Democrats on board -- Mayor Daley, Lt. Gov. Pat Quinn, Comptroller Dan Hynes and the Rev. Jesse Jackson are among those who have argued it's the wrong approach. While its broad base and low rates have appeal, they don't overcome the defects of the gross receipts tax. It's time to find Plan B.

Blagojevich wants to tax all the money a business takes in, not just its profits. Small businesses with less than $2 million in receipts would be exempt, and manufacturers would be taxed at a lower rate than service businesses. Companies subject to the new tax would no longer pay the corporate income tax. The plan would raise $7.6 billion to cover some necessary expenses, such as school funding and property tax relief, and one proposal we think should wait until the state's finances are in better shape: universal health insurance.

The governor says too many companies can now avoid paying any corporate tax because of legal loopholes.
Businesses say that will be devastating. They say the costs will be passed on to consumers, meaning "working families" will end up paying the tax. And businesses argue that they do pay their fair share, when you consider that business taxes account for about half of all state and local taxes collected each year.

Blagojevich is so far taking a hard line, refusing to break his promise to not raise income taxes or sales taxes. But he's already acknowledged the need for new revenue, something he didn't do during his campaign last year. Without the gross receipts tax, he must find other revenue sources. He and the Legislature have a variety of choices. They could and should make a more serious effort to identify loopholes that are being abused. They could explore the idea of extending the sales tax to services. They could consider a graduated income tax. They could revive the idea of a "tax swap" -- raising the income tax and lowering property taxes. But doing nothing, and letting the state's finances further deteriorate, is not an option.
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  #859  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2007, 11:45 PM
Marcu Marcu is offline
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Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop View Post
Oh lord. Well I guess the good news is that the bill in its current form is pretty much DOA (the House won't buy it). The question is: how much does it get amended? Hopefully a lot. It's funny - a couple years ago he made the news by implying that his (I think this is what he said) father-in-law (Ald. Dick Mell) had a lack of "testicular fortitude" (whatever exactly that is). Whatever the precise definition is, it is clear with his lame tax plan that he has none of it. If he did, he would undertake the difficult work that is necessary to acheive some of his laudable social goals (education funding equity, access to health care, etc) by doing what everyone knows is necessary - increasing the state income tax and decreasing property taxes. Also, anyone with the most basic understanding of economics knows that in the end it is consumer taxpayers that pay just about all tax anyway (businesses are for the most part just tax collectors), as tax is passed on to the taxpaying consumer public in the form of higher prices, lower demand for goods and services, etc...
Absolutely. If Blago is really worried about the rich getting richer, evil corporations not paying taxes, etc. than raise the income tax on any income over 200k to 4 or 5%. The same way the progressive fed income tax works. In the end, corporations are the people who run them so tax them directly.

He talks about fairness, but is it really fair to have low margin high volume businesses like car dealerships and repair shops, manufacturing, real estate developers and gas stations bear the burden of the state corporate tax? The 2mil exemption is a joke. A law firm with 5 lawyers can easily gross 2mil which each lawyer taking less than 100k home. Business trying to break into the market by undercutting the competition will be especially hurt.
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  #860  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2007, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop View Post
Oh lord. Well I guess the good news is that the bill in its current form is pretty much DOA (the House won't buy it). The question is: how much does it get amended? Hopefully a lot. It's funny - a couple years ago he made the news by implying that his (I think this is what he said) father-in-law (Ald. Dick Mell) had a lack of "testicular fortitude" (whatever exactly that is). Whatever the precise definition is, it is clear with his lame tax plan that he has none of it. If he did, he would undertake the difficult work that is necessary to acheive some of his laudable social goals (education funding equity, access to health care, etc) by doing what everyone knows is necessary - increasing the state income tax and decreasing property taxes. Also, anyone with the most basic understanding of economics knows that in the end it is consumer taxpayers that pay just about all tax anyway (businesses are for the most part just tax collectors), as tax is passed on to the taxpaying consumer public in the form of higher prices, lower demand for goods and services, etc...
Right, Gross Receipts Tax is like a double-whammy business and sales tax, since the higher cost of supplying goods through a supply chain will merely be passed onto consumers, and the consumers will absorb that regardless of their income.

A truly awful governor, unable to build any sort of functioning coalition to pass legislation.
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