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  #2381  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2019, 2:54 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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yes nigel nitro is being ridiculous.

gateway/penn south is the most important priority transit project in the nation.

i suggest he read up about it from news sources other than the cbc/bbc.

i dk why anyone complains about lga. i dont think anything needs to be done there. its by far the easiest airport to get to for most people. if you dont have much luggage its a two seat subway/bus trip from anywhere for $2.75. so its much cheaper than using the jfk airtrain, which btw is raising prices. or if you have lot of luggage its like $30 from manhattan by cab or car service of your choice. i mean i know people like rail service to airports, and rail is definitely needed for newark and jfk, but eh for lga.

locally though, i would prefer second avenue and some push toward triboro rx be priorities.

also, there is hope for filling in transit gaps and outer loop service with cuomo's push for new mnrr stations in the bronx ---
--- and the possibility of running this new lga airtrain down the van wyck to connect to jamaica someday.
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  #2382  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2019, 2:27 PM
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Portal Bridge replacement

This would be excellent news if this bridge replacement received funding.

Portal Bridge replacement project poised to pass key milestone

Thursday, July 25, 2019
Associated Press

"NEWARK, New Jersey -- A $1.6 billion project to replace a century-old rail bridge between Newark and New York City is poised to pass a key milestone.

Federal transit officials recently indicated that the Portal North Bridge project is on track to clear a hurdle as it seeks funding to begin construction.

Last year, the project received a low rating that disqualified it from a federal grant program, in a dispute over New Jersey's funding sources. The rating is scheduled to be revisited this fall..."

https://abc7ny.com/traffic/portal-br...stone/5419241/
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  #2383  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2019, 2:59 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
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Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist View Post
This would be excellent news if this bridge replacement received funding.

Portal Bridge replacement project poised to pass key milestone

Thursday, July 25, 2019
Associated Press

"NEWARK, New Jersey -- A $1.6 billion project to replace a century-old rail bridge between Newark and New York City is poised to pass a key milestone.

Federal transit officials recently indicated that the Portal North Bridge project is on track to clear a hurdle as it seeks funding to begin construction.

Last year, the project received a low rating that disqualified it from a federal grant program, in a dispute over New Jersey's funding sources. The rating is scheduled to be revisited this fall..."

https://abc7ny.com/traffic/portal-br...stone/5419241/
In the interim restricting the hours of opening that the Coast Guard agreed to have substantially helped the situation. Most of the traffic the bridge opens for is sludge barges from the waste treatment plant upriver so not exactly time sensitive cargo that should require opening the bridge at rush hour and risk melting down the NEC services.
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  #2384  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2019, 3:26 PM
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In the interim restricting the hours of opening that the Coast Guard agreed to have substantially helped the situation. Most of the traffic the bridge opens for is sludge barges from the waste treatment plant upriver so not exactly time sensitive cargo that should require opening the bridge at rush hour and risk melting down the NEC services.
No shit!
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  #2385  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2019, 11:31 AM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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so all that hand wringing and hoo ha and no l-pocalypse.

basically, hanging the wires and bondo-ing up the tunnel bench wall is fine.



Speedy cable installation latest step forward in fast-moving L-train East River tunnel repair job Brooklynites once dreaded

Clayton Guse
By CLAYTON GUSE
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS |
JUL 28, 2019


It took a contractor just two weekends to finish a big chunk of the L-train East River tunnel repair project, which the MTA says is moving along swiftly.

Workers hung 40,000 feet of cable along a wall of the Canarsie Tunnel’s northern tube during the two weekends over the last month. Construction crews will install cable racks on the other half of the tunnel in the coming months.


more:
https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...piq-story.html
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  #2386  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2019, 2:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
so all that hand wringing and hoo ha and no l-pocalypse.

basically, hanging the wires and bondo-ing up the tunnel bench wall is fine.



Speedy cable installation latest step forward in fast-moving L-train East River tunnel repair job Brooklynites once dreaded

Clayton Guse
By CLAYTON GUSE
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS |
JUL 28, 2019


It took a contractor just two weekends to finish a big chunk of the L-train East River tunnel repair project, which the MTA says is moving along swiftly.

Workers hung 40,000 feet of cable along a wall of the Canarsie Tunnel’s northern tube during the two weekends over the last month. Construction crews will install cable racks on the other half of the tunnel in the coming months.


more:
https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...piq-story.html
The tunnel will still need a complete rebuild this just kicks it down the road...which is problem in this region.
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  #2387  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2019, 3:21 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
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The tunnel will still need a complete rebuild this just kicks it down the road...which is problem in this region.
Yeah there is no way to know how long the type of repairs they did in the Canarsie tunnel will last.
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  #2388  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2019, 3:39 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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^ its supposed to last 40yrs and they are installing sensors to monitor things.



this from a vice interview with branko kleva, head of mta sandy related repairs:

The first thing I learned from our conversation is that the damage from Sandy—and the threat it poses—is not necessarily infrastructural; it’s not that the tunnel itself is about to collapse due to water damage, but that everything inside of it that makes the trains run is essentially fried. (Although they are repairing cracks and leaks in the concrete liner during the shutdown, too.) Because inside the Canarsie Tunnel is a spider-web of electrical cables, for communications, signals, emergency alarms, and, of course, power. The emergency repairs made after Sandy were temporary, explained Kleva, which is why the L runs now. But that won’t last much longer.
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  #2389  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2019, 3:51 PM
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^ its supposed to last 40yrs and they are installing sensors to monitor things.
They think it will last 40 years. Nobody has tried to stabilize a detriorating bench wall with FRP to my knowledge. The cable racking isn't a big deal but only time will tell if not demoing all the affected bench wall was a mistake. They're rolling the dice.
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  #2390  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2019, 3:59 PM
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Originally Posted by k1052 View Post
They think it will last 40 years. Nobody has tried to stabilize a detriorating bench wall with FRP to my knowledge. The cable racking isn't a big deal but only time will tell if not demoing all the affected bench wall was a mistake. They're rolling the dice.
by hanging the cables they don't need the bench wall. now they just don't need to tear it out, which is what they were going to do. its not a structural issue.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...uhe-story.html
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  #2391  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2019, 4:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
by hanging the cables they don't need the bench wall. now they just don't need to tear it out, which is what they were going to do. its not a structural issue.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...uhe-story.html
The bench wall will continue to deteriorate. There is no guarantee the FRP will contain it long term.
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  #2392  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2019, 4:23 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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The bench wall will continue to deteriorate. There is no guarantee the FRP will contain it long term.
it won't, but it doesn't matter. its no longer needed. its being repaired where necessary for any possible structural issues, and the rest covered over and monitored.

remember its purpose was to hold the wiring inside, which got soaked with salt water and ruined during sandy, but that does not compromise the structure of the tunnel, as the multiple experts noted above.

also remember they were going to tear the whole of it out, its just that by hanging the wiring and bondo-ing it up now they don't have to bother.

so let's give them some credit here, its not the hudson tunnels situation, its more similar to what they did for the montague tunnel --- and that hasn't fallen on our heads for the past five years.

(The Authority closed the Montague tunnel because Hurricane Sandy’s salty flood water corroded its mechanical and electrical infrastructure. The $308 million rehabilitation includes work on tracks, tunnel lighting, circuit-breaker housings, power substations, pump rooms, power cables, fans, and ducts, according to the Authority. Workers also repaired leaks in the tube and replaced thousands of bolts that hold the tunnel’s 18-foot cast iron tunnel rings in place.).

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  #2393  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2019, 5:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
it won't, but it doesn't matter. its no longer needed. its being repaired where necessary for any possible structural issues, and the rest covered over and monitored.

remember its purpose was to hold the wiring inside, which got soaked with salt water and ruined during sandy, but that does not compromise the structure of the tunnel, as the multiple experts noted above.

also remember they were going to tear the whole of it out, its just that by hanging the wiring and bondo-ing it up now they don't have to bother.

so let's give them some credit here, its not the hudson tunnels situation, its more similar to what they did for the montague tunnel --- and that hasn't fallen on our heads for the past five years.

(The Authority closed the Montague tunnel because Hurricane Sandy’s salty flood water corroded its mechanical and electrical infrastructure. The $308 million rehabilitation includes work on tracks, tunnel lighting, circuit-breaker housings, power substations, pump rooms, power cables, fans, and ducts, according to the Authority. Workers also repaired leaks in the tube and replaced thousands of bolts that hold the tunnel’s 18-foot cast iron tunnel rings in place.).

That the now unused bench wall is cracking and spalling concrete is the problem and that sections of it will possibly collapse in the future. Not removing it gambles that there won't be significant problems as it continues deteriorating. Should the FRP not be strong enough to retain the wall in the case of such a failure you could get concrete on the tracks. The sensor system doesn't give me a lot of comfort for agency that can't keep escalators running, it's drains unclogged, or computer systems functioning.

The MTA closed Montague for a year and the contractors tore out and rebuilt all the bench wall that was impacted, like 30K feet of it. In the Canarsie the MTA, or Cuomo rather, decided to only demo the worst parts and cover the rest.

Here is the new bench wall being installed in Montague:




This is what they're doing in the Canarsie instead:



Will there be problems in 5 or 10 years? Probably not. After that though I wouldn't care to place a wager. The Montague repair is certain to last many decades.
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  #2394  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2019, 5:15 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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except they needed to do that because they replaced the wiring the same way as it had been.

thats not what they are doing here.

they are hanging the wiring.

so that bench wall is not needed.

it won't crumble, because they will remove any crumbley sections now (perhaps up to 40% of it or so i have read), but, well, have you ever owned an old car? even if more does crumble in the future, you just remove it or re-bondo it.

you seemed worried that its holding the tunnel together or something. its not. its not integral to anything now.
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  #2395  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2019, 5:45 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
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except they needed to do that because they replaced the wiring the same way as it had been.

thats not what they are doing here.

they are hanging the wiring.

so that bench wall is not needed.

it won't crumble, because they will remove any crumbley sections now (perhaps up to 40% of it or so i have read), but, well, have you ever owned an old car? even if more does crumble in the future, you just remove it or re-bondo it.

you seemed worried that its holding the tunnel together or something. its not. its not integral to anything now.
Bench wall pieces on the tracks would be bad and could cause a derailment. No the tunnel won't collapse but there are risks.
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  #2396  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2019, 5:53 PM
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as i am sure you are well aware there is a lot of crap on the tracks right now that could cause derailments.

at least the very small potentiality here will covered up and monitored --- and also it seems much of it will be tore out anyway.

the girders and crap they leave everywhere on the tracks worry me much, much more than this will, as do the el pieces falling on our heads.
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  #2397  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2019, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k1052 View Post
That the now unused bench wall is cracking and spalling concrete is the problem and that sections of it will possibly collapse in the future. Not removing it gambles that there won't be significant problems as it continues deteriorating. Should the FRP not be strong enough to retain the wall in the case of such a failure you could get concrete on the tracks. The sensor system doesn't give me a lot of comfort for agency that can't keep escalators running, it's drains unclogged, or computer systems functioning.

The MTA closed Montague for a year and the contractors tore out and rebuilt all the bench wall that was impacted, like 30K feet of it. In the Canarsie the MTA, or Cuomo rather, decided to only demo the worst parts and cover the rest.

Here is the new bench wall being installed in Montague:




This is what they're doing in the Canarsie instead:



Will there be problems in 5 or 10 years? Probably not. After that though I wouldn't care to place a wager. The Montague repair is certain to last many decades.
The R train tubes will last 100 years that was a complete rebuild. Another Sandy like storm will most likely take out the L tunnel..
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  #2398  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2019, 4:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
The R train tubes will last 100 years that was a complete rebuild. Another Sandy like storm will most likely take out the L tunnel..

no, montague was a complete rebuild of the tunnel systems, ie., where they put the wiring and etc., not of the whole tunnel. again, this is exactly what they did:

(The Authority closed the Montague tunnel because Hurricane Sandy’s salty flood water corroded its mechanical and electrical infrastructure. The $308 million rehabilitation includes work on tracks, tunnel lighting, circuit-breaker housings, power substations, pump rooms, power cables, fans, and ducts, according to the Authority. Workers also repaired leaks in the tube and replaced thousands of bolts that hold the tunnel’s 18-foot cast iron tunnel rings in place.).


^ let's face it all that stuff will get ruined again anyway if and when we get another sandy. so canarsie will be fine as long as hanging the wiring works, which it should because it does all over the world.
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  #2399  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2019, 8:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
no, montague was a complete rebuild of the tunnel systems, ie., where they put the wiring and etc., not of the whole tunnel. again, this is exactly what they did:

(The Authority closed the Montague tunnel because Hurricane Sandy’s salty flood water corroded its mechanical and electrical infrastructure. The $308 million rehabilitation includes work on tracks, tunnel lighting, circuit-breaker housings, power substations, pump rooms, power cables, fans, and ducts, according to the Authority. Workers also repaired leaks in the tube and replaced thousands of bolts that hold the tunnel’s 18-foot cast iron tunnel rings in place.).


^ let's face it all that stuff will get ruined again anyway if and when we get another sandy. so canarsie will be fine as long as hanging the wiring works, which it should because it does all over the world.
I believe they also installed doors to seal off the tunnels in the event of another Sandy.
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  #2400  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2019, 11:59 AM
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^ i know - im sure those will work fine and that all the leaks were patched.
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