The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[cdnguys]

No offence guys, but perhaps you don't fully understand Sear's new business model. They are leveraging their online platform, logistics and shipping with Sear's Ecommerce & Logisics Solutions - this isn't your grandmother's Sear's - they will create an online marketplace for third party sellers because despite falling sales in brick and mortar sales - their technology is actually pretty good online.

As for "low paying" - what is the definition ? Is $15.40 an hour low paying ? I know a lot of people that think this would be good money. There will be a lot of spin offs. More customers at restaurants means more servers, there will be the need for managers, supervisors, team leads what have you, cleaning staff etc...

As for subsidies - if NB didn't offer them, then another jurisdiction would have. I'd rather have the jobs and allow the income tax and payroll taxes exceed the subsidy over time.

We should be happy we are getting jobs because they are better than NO jobs.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

I heard today that Sears just signed a one year lease with mcAllister place.....one year! I would think most places would want a 5 or 10 year lease.....something's not right with this and I hope to God my suspicions are wrong.....

No they didn't. Your source and location are both wrong. Friday the details will be available

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

No they didn't. Your source and location are both wrong. Friday the details will be available

I heard this from an employee and I do hope that you are right. We'll see Friday.

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

No offence guys, but perhaps you don't fully understand Sear's new business model. They are leveraging their online platform, logistics and shipping with Sear's Ecommerce & Logisics Solutions - this isn't your grandmother's Sear's - they will create an online marketplace for third party sellers because despite falling sales in brick and mortar sales - their technology is actually pretty good online.

As for "low paying" - what is the definition ? Is $15.40 an hour low paying ? I know a lot of people that think this would be good money. There will be a lot of spin offs. More customers at restaurants means more servers, there will be the need for managers, supervisors, team leads what have you, cleaning staff etc...

As for subsidies - if NB didn't offer them, then another jurisdiction would have. I'd rather have the jobs and allow the income tax and payroll taxes exceed the subsidy over time.

We should be happy we are getting jobs because they are better than NO jobs.

No offence taken. Personally I had no idea that Sears had this arm and I hope it will be around until I'm dust in the ground but I'm skeptical as to whether it is too late to reinvent themselves. Yes, you are right that if we didn't throw money at them; someone else would....I'm against payroll rebates in general and we don't have a great track record as a province in this regard. I would rather use that money either to train people and/or attract industry other than call centres. We sit at the best possible spot in eastern Canada for exports.....ports, train, trucking....we should be a manufacturing powerhouse yet we're not.

As far as income, yes 15.40 is a decent wage....you could rent a good apartment, maybe have a car etc but you're likely not getting a mortgage or putting your kids through university. We need all levels of jobs to support and grow an economy....we only seem to get jobs coming at the lower end of the scale. We need more industry!

Again, no offence taken as I appreciate all points of view and I learned something new tonight! Now if we could just get that coast guard site developed!

[saintjohnirish☘]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

No offence guys, but perhaps you don't fully understand Sear's new business model. They are leveraging their online platform, logistics and shipping with Sear's Ecommerce & Logisics Solutions - this isn't your grandmother's Sear's - they will create an online marketplace for third party sellers because despite falling sales in brick and mortar sales - their technology is actually pretty good online.

As for "low paying" - what is the definition ? Is $15.40 an hour low paying ? I know a lot of people that think this would be good money. There will be a lot of spin offs. More customers at restaurants means more servers, there will be the need for managers, supervisors, team leads what have you, cleaning staff etc...

As for subsidies - if NB didn't offer them, then another jurisdiction would have. I'd rather have the jobs and allow the income tax and payroll taxes exceed the subsidy over time.

We should be happy we are getting jobs because they are better than NO jobs.

Neoliberalism folks, late capitalism's race to the bottom.

Wrong way to go. This is not the bold direction we need.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by saintjohnirish☘

Neoliberalism folks, late capitalism's race to the bottom.

Wrong way to go. This is not the bold direction we need.

The tenets of neoliberalism is cutting social services, privitization of public utilities/corporations, deregulation and adopting the republican idea of individual responsibility over "the public good". Sure doesn't feel that way here in NB and not sure how above meets that definition.

So what's the end result ? Sorry folks, no 300 jobs paying $15 because we have some philosophical differences ?

Tax money is used in every jurisdiction in North America and Europe to land jobs. You can't escape it. I don't understand people saying "my tax dollars .... "
my corporate taxes and property taxes pay for healthcare, defence and many social programs. I don't get to choose which ones I support or not. I vote for a candidate for a party that has a particular platform that addresses these kinds of fiscal issues.

Also, these jobs will target people on the welfare roles - your tax dollars pay for welfare - just think of it as shifting resources to education and training.

Jeesh is it only here people complain about new jobs, new Irving HQ, etc?
I mean how many jobs are you creating ?

[Ire Narissis]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

No offence guys, but perhaps you don't fully understand Sear's new business model. They are leveraging their online platform, logistics and shipping with Sear's Ecommerce & Logisics Solutions - this isn't your grandmother's Sear's - they will create an online marketplace for third party sellers because despite falling sales in brick and mortar sales - their technology is actually pretty good online.

Frankly, this is what Sears should have been up to all along. The company was built on the backs of its catalogs. From the early 1900s, they were the Amazon before Amazon; before even internet. They were the company you could "send away to" and have products delivered to your door. And with their catalog business still going strong right up until online shopping started to eat away at the market share, they really should have been one of the first companies hopping on that bandwagon. They were poised to become what Amazon is today, and they blew it.

There's still room for more great online stores to compete with Amazon, and I hope that Sears does well in that arena and gets back on its feet... though even if they do, that's not likely to save our local brick-and-mortar stores from shutting down.

At this point I'd like to see them doing something like closing down their department stores and catalog depots, and replacing them with modern locations downscaled to focus on just the things that people still go to Sears in-person to shop for and buy, like appliances, furniture, and garden products. Everything else could be sold through their online channel, and they could have nice modern pickup locations at the fronts of these smaller stores for customers to come to get their order (taking advantage of faster shipping than if they'd ordered door delivery).

...I dunno; just speculative pipe dreams at this point.

[saintjohnirish☘]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

The tenets of neoliberalism is cutting social services, privitization of public utilities/corporations, deregulation and adopting the republican idea of individual responsibility over "the public good". Sure doesn't feel that way here in NB and not sure how above meets that definition.

Well thank you for that definition, but part of the neoliberalism is this ramping up of corporate wellfare and a weakened state- which is very much a problem in New Brunswick, especially Saint John. Giving the rich money to create jobs, pay their employees decent wages and maintain upgrades to plants is insane. It's not our jobs as citizens to pay the cost of 'doing business' for the capitalist. There are many mechanisms in which the state can create these jobs themselves more equitably.

Maybe you've been reading too many Irving papers, but cutting social services, privatiation of public utilities, degredulation have been increasing here in NB. We only have to look to school and hospital closures, our forestry practices, specifically in respect to JDI, and Saint John's municipal water overhaul, which— because of a weakend state— has included various private entities including (you guessed it) Irving, who once again will profit at the expense of the people of this city and province.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by saintjohnirish☘

Maybe you've been reading too many Irving papers, but cutting social services, privatiation of public utilities, degredulation have been increasing here in NB. We only have to look to school and hospital closures ...

NB has too many schools and hospitals for the population they service. More often than not they're rural in nature and don't have the population necessary for the funding their require to stay open. In terms of Saint John, schools are being consolidated because there's too many of them for the student base, either because so many were built for baby boomers or because those same baby boomers didn't have enough children to eventually fill those schools (or subsequently moved away).

These aren't social service cuts - they're merely adjustments in how those services are distributed. Centralizing services in cities and towns is wiser than every small community of 1,000 people having a school, hospital, post office, etc. simply due to the servicing costs required for each of those facilities. It's more cost effective to run a single school for 500 students than two schools of 250 each.

Your weakened state argument is interesting given the financial viability of public-private partnerships in the past and how they're entirely beneficial for the government systems that partake in them. I see it less as a weakened state and more as a government that's more fiscally responsible when infrastructure projects are required.

Either way, arguing about the viability of government handouts and funding practices isn't entirely on topic for this thread.

[saintjohnirish☘]

Originally Posted by JHikka

NB has too many schools and hospitals for the population they service. More often than not they're rural in nature and don't have the population necessary for the funding their require to stay open. In terms of Saint John, schools are being consolidated because there's too many of them for the student base, either because so many were built for baby boomers or because those same baby boomers didn't have enough children to eventually fill those schools (or subsequently moved away).

These aren't social service cuts - they're merely adjustments in how those services are distributed. Centralizing services in cities and towns is wiser than every small community of 1,000 people having a school, hospital, post office, etc. simply due to the servicing costs required for each of those facilities. It's more cost effective to run a single school for 500 students than two schools of 250 each.

Your weakened state argument is interesting given the financial viability of public-private partnerships in the past and how they're entirely beneficial for the government systems that partake in them. I see it less as a weakened state and more as a government that's more fiscally responsible when infrastructure projects are required.

Either way, arguing about the viability of government handouts and funding practices isn't entirely on topic for this thread.

Understood, but these are civic issues. And "cost effective"? Really? These are not businesses- the social wellbeing of South end Saint John (or north end and Lorne School) can't be reduced to mere numbers on a spreadsheet as they stand now, especially with all the work going into drawing people into the city and when the province has built new schools in KV, some with very low numbers.

Where have these P3s worked? We are late to these trends. Looking around the work municipalities are taking back their public utilities and infrastructure as P3s are actually failures from Hamilton, Ontario to Paris, France. The trend now is remunicipaization.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by saintjohnirish☘

Understood, but these are civic issues.

Health and Education are under the purview of the Province.

Originally Posted by saintjohnirish☘

And "cost effective"? Really? These are not businesses- the social wellbeing of South end Saint John (or north end and Lorne School) can't be reduced to mere numbers on a spreadsheet as they stand now, especially with all the work going into drawing people into the city

Perhaps if Saint John were to have a population boom in the next ten years (either via immigrants or migrants from elsewhere in Canada) then these schools could remain open. With Centennial and Princess Elizabeth nearby it's difficult to make the argument that a school like Lorne, operating with 50 students when closed, should remain open. Obviously we don't have costs for these facilities publicly available but if we did i'd imagine the cost of operating a building that size for that few students would be staggering. Turning it into a community centre is the better option, IMO. It's not as if the building has been left empty and is rotting away.

What we do have available however are enrollment numbers which should be eye-opening to anyone who hasn't seen them:

Anglophone District South, Number of Schools:
2004: 77
2009: 74
2014: 74

Anglophone District South, Number of Students:
2004: 28,461
2009: 25,964
2014: 23,376

As a whole, provincial enrollment has dropped from 133K in 1996 to somewhere around 95K in 2016. That's a 40K drop in twenty years.

I understand that it's difficult seeing local community schools close but at some point they have to be looked at as numbers on spreadsheets when looking at the fiscal sustainability of the service as a whole. With 5K fewer students in a decade do you think the servicing costs should be the same? In the event that we keep schools open are you okay with your tax dollars keeping schools open in rural areas with under 50 students when they can be bused elsewhere nearby?

Originally Posted by saintjohnirish☘

Where have these P3s worked? We are late to these trends. Looking around the work municipalities are taking back their public utilities and infrastructure as P3s are actually failures from Hamilton, Ontario to Paris, France. The trend now is remunicipaization.

Confederation Bridge, Autoroute 30, Highway 407 to name a few, along with other government-led public-private partnership building projects. Arguably Cobequid Pass if you want to ignore the whole pay-toll thing that's been going on recently. As far as i'm concerned as long as vital public services aren't being turned over to private interests entirely (schools, health, etc.) then i'm all for private involvement in funding mechanisms for infrastructure projects or the like.

[Whaler]

Originally Posted by CdnEh

The entire pulp mill would have to burn to the ground before anybody would consider moving it. JDI has billions invested in that operation and to consider moving it would be ridiculous. It's akin to tearing down the Empire State Building because the neighbours don't like the view.

While I appreciate what this guy is doing for the Falls site, some of his ideas and opinions have me thinking he's a bit of a crackpot.

Not a bit....a lot of a crackpot!

[CdnEh]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

No offence guys, but perhaps you don't fully understand Sear's new business model. They are leveraging their online platform, logistics and shipping with Sear's Ecommerce & Logisics Solutions - this isn't your grandmother's Sear's - they will create an online marketplace for third party sellers because despite falling sales in brick and mortar sales - their technology is actually pretty good online.

This is a lie if I've ever seen one. Sears is very well known in the online shopping community for having one of, if not THE worst eCommerce attempts in the entire marketplace.

In fact, I've personally had experience with Sears's awful website. I had items in my cart, had a total, clicked the "place order" button and the price doubled before my eyes as the confirmation page loaded.

I immediately called Sears to cancel. Low and behold a week and a half later (!), my products that I had supposedly "cancelled" had shipped and I had been charged the price I did not authorize.

After much rigamarole, I opened up a dispute with PayPal. Sears Canada couldn't even be bothered to reply to any of PayPal's attempt to get in contact with them, and I won the case by default.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by CdnEh

This is a lie if I've ever seen one. Sears is very well known in the online shopping community for having one of, if not THE worst eCommerce attempts in the entire marketplace.

In fact, I've personally had experience with Sears's awful website. I had items in my cart, had a total, clicked the "place order" button and the price doubled before my eyes as the confirmation page loaded.

I immediately called Sears to cancel. Low and behold a week and a half later (!), my products that I had supposedly "cancelled" had shipped and I had been charged the price I did not authorize.

After much rigamarole, I opened up a dispute with PayPal. Sears Canada couldn't even be bothered to reply to any of PayPal's attempt to get in contact with them, and I won the case by default.

Despite your experience, their initium backend technology is really good.

[CdnEh]

The premier will be making an announcement at McAllister Place tomorrow at 9:00am.

[Wolkenkratzerliebhab]

Originally Posted by CdnEh

The premier will be making an announcement at McAllister Place tomorrow at 9:00am.

As someone noted on the Premier's Twiter account, the fact that it includes a picture of the Coast Guard site could possibly be a hint of what the announcement will be about. I'm hoping, against hope, it's finally about this project going ahead.


https://twitter.com/BrianGallantNB/s...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by Wolkenkratzerliebhab

As someone noted on the Premier's Twiter account, the fact that it includes a picture of the Coast Guard site could possibly be a hint of what the announcement will be about. I'm hoping, against hope, it's finally about this project going ahead.


https://twitter.com/BrianGallantNB/s...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

The announcement is not about the Port or Coast Guard site - why he used a picture of the harbour is beyond me....the announcement is at McAllister Place at 9 and is related to Sears. Apparently some sort of Sears logistics centre.

[thefishingnut]

350 Call Center Jobs.

"Sears Canada is opening a new call centre in Saint John and the company estimates it will create 350 new jobs.

The announcement was made Friday morning in Saint John. Opportunities New Brunswick is offering $4.3 million in payroll rebates and loans and the Department of Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour is adding $894,000 in jobs funding.

The jobs at the Saint John centre will include business services agents, team leaders, information technology support, human resources personnel, administrative support and managers.

Recruiting and training will begin in early March with the centre scheduled to begin taking calls this spring."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-br...ears-1.3944383

[KnoxfordGuy]

Not good. Sears will be going belly up in a few years no doubt.

[thefishingnut]

Originally Posted by KnoxfordGuy

Not good. Sears will be going belly up in a few years no doubt.

Ya, $10+ million a year paid in wages instead of 350 people on social assistance or EI certainly is bad news. And think of all the downside of filling all that office space instead of having it empty. And employing local tradespeople on retrofitting the space to their requirements instead of them being employed in Fort Mac. Just a bad day all around.