Canadian Commercial Real Estate Thread

[lio45]

Originally Posted by vid

For senate, Democrats were favoured by 53.8% of the electorate to 42.4% for Republicans. Republicans won.

You can't be serious there - think about it for a second. (If you don't get it, I'll explain in a few minutes...)

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by vid

For president, the Democratic candidate was favoured by 48.2% of the electorate to 46.1% for the Republican. The Republican won.

For senate, Democrats were favoured by 53.8% of the electorate to 42.4% for Republicans. Republicans won.

For the house, Republicans got 49.1% of the vote, Democrats 48%, but Republicans received 55.5% of the seats compared to 45.5% of the seats for Democrats. So at least that's close.

Harper and Trudeau both ended up with 54.5% of the seats with 39.5% of the vote in the previous two elections.

So, as evidenced in your very example, which by the way, is the first time in 8 years that the balance of power in all three federal units is a single party (the last time being Obama in 2009), you show that at most 50.9% of the electorate is alienated versus potentially 60%+ in Canada. For most of the period of the last 8 years, the United States government has been somewhat analogous to a minority government in Canada, having to compromise on it's legislation to appeal and pass both Democratic and Republican houses of congress.

Are you violently agreeing with us?

By the way, it is a total false equivalence, because while in the United States you get phenomenons like "blue dog" democrats and Republicans who freely vote against their party platform (like Rand Paul), in Canada MPs need to beg for a "free vote" to be able to properly represent their constituency. Representatives in the United States operate as a "free vote" every single time, allowing them to dynamically and regionally represent constituents to the best of their ability.

[vid]

Originally Posted by lio45

You can't be serious there - think about it for a second. (If you don't get it, I'll explain in a few minutes...)

I think you're parsing my sentence incorrectly! This, my friends, is what constitutes political discourse in the Tomi Lahren/Breitbart era.

Go ahead and explain, I'm logging off now and probably won't have time to visit again for several days.

Originally Posted by geotag277

Are you violently agreeing with us?

Whatever makes you happy, I'm eager to please. The brown the nose, the further one goes, as they say.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by vid

Go ahead and explain, I'm logging off now and probably won't have time to visit again for several days.

Senators represent states, not people. Each state gets two senators, regardless of its population. That's why it's very normal that there will often be huge discrepancies between the makeup of the Senate and the popular vote.

In fact, it's way more balanced than it could be, because even though the GOP is more rural and the Dems more urban in terms of voter profiles, the Dems do still win low pop states (VT, ME, DE, RI, HI, etc.) while the GOP does also win high pop states (TX, FL...)

It could be a LOT worse - imagine that Party A wins all the big states (CA, TX, FL, NY, IL, PA, etc.) - especially with high turnout, because why not - and then Party B wins all the small ones (with low turnout, just to make the example even worse)... Party B would easily control the Senate with a ridiculously tiny share of the countrywide popular vote. And it would be normal, because that's the way the Senate has been designed. The 26 least populated states can trump the 24 most populated states in the Senate. Electoral weight there comes from statehood only.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by geotag277

First, understand that English is by nature an ambiguous language. Then re-read the sentence I typed and understand that it has multiple interpretations. Then, understand that your interpretation of said quoted sentence is not the interpretation I meant.

As a hint, the target of the noun "anyone" is not "anyone has a disorder", but "anyone really thinks he has a disorder".

Level of discourse = gotcha games and intentionally misinterpreting quotes. Is it any wonder no one takes you guys seriously?

Um, I think I speak for most people when I say I got the exact same interpretation from what you said as he did. Then again maybe it's just this new era we're living in where words don't matter and you never actually mean what you say. Deport all the Mexicans? Nah he'll soften up. Muslim Registry? He didn't mean it. Mock disabled reporter? He never did that!

[geotag277]

Just for fun:

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Deport all the Mexicans?

Great example of inconsistent fact checking, a highly misleading statement which Politifact could only rate "half true".

For the record I think the immigration issue in the United States is one that not many Canadians understand or have context for. There are millions of illegal immigrants in the United States, many of them living in "sanctuary cities" which openly flaunt Federal immigration laws to protect them. There is absolutely no analogous situation in Canada, and I suspect if Canada did have a similar problem with illegal immigration from a poorer country, the discourse would be much different.

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Muslim Registry?

Obama operated a list of individuals from high risk countries who were majority Muslim for years. He only completely got rid of it a month before leaving office.

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Mock disabled reporter?

He did mock a disabled reporter, but not for being disabled. He mocked the reporter for backing down from a previous statement. The specific gesture he used, he has used to make fun of everybody from Ted Cruz to himself.

Also, the gesture he used had nothing to do with the actual disability.

• Video Link

In fact, in a somewhat ironic twist, if Trump had adjusted his "backing down" gesture which he routinely uses to mock individuals who change their story, he would have been discriminating against the reporter himself on the basis of his disability.

The fact the media sensationalized this story to the extent it has been blown up is very indicative of the National Enquirer gossip rag state of the media world we are currently living in.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Um, I think I speak for most people when I say I got the exact same interpretation from what you said as he did.

I also got that same interpretation as everyone else from his wording (but if I had stopped and paused to think about it, then it's actually the opposite interpretation that I would have found more plausible as default assumption; I didn't do any of this because I wasn't involved in that line of discussion) but again, even if you got that interpretation at the time, what's the problem with accepting to let his new clarifications update your interpretation so it now matches what he had intended to express in the first place?

This is a discussion forum, we're here for that.

Unless you suspect he's lying, and that your interpretation was correct, and that he changed his mind between these two posts (he formerly thought no one could ever have a personality disorder, then he stated he didn't deny some people did have one). I find this assumption to be completely ridiculous, for the record. But that would be the only valid reason to refuse him the possibility of clarifying what he said.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by lio45

even if you got that interpretation at the time, what's the problem with accepting to let his new clarifications update your interpretation so it now matches what he had intended to express in the first place?

People don't talk politics online to have an honest discussion. Personalities that for whatever reason are drawn to these topics seem to be only interesting in lazily regurgitating the political talking points of the day.

I will note how both O-tacular and vid made almost identical comments regarding my attempt to clarify what I meant (Mister F also came close to alluding the same thing):

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Then again maybe it's just this new era we're living in where words don't matter and you never actually mean what you say.

Originally Posted by vid

The good ol' "He says what he means, but don't take it literally!"

I think this rather neatly shows the rather disturbing penetration that propaganda in the form of political talking points has made, even within Canada regarding politics that concerns a neighbouring country.

To be honest, while of course I can recognize that the language I used was ambiguous, I find the interpretation that I would wholesale objectively deny the existence of any form of personality disorder rather ridiculous, and I assumed the first responses to my comment which took that interpretation were lazy trolls.

I suppose it gets back to the type of personality that enters political discussions online are actively hunting for the most sensationalized and least charitable interpretation of things.

[koops65]

Wow, I thought this thread was going to be about a certain tall building, that most people here dislike, either because of how it looks or because of its name, but it has somehow morphed into a US politics thread... lol!

Some of you guys are awesome debaters. I wish you all had piped up in the 50 Tallest Proposals thread, about the height of tall towers near downtown...

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by koops65

Wow, I thought this thread was going to be about a certain tall building, that most people here dislike, either because of how it looks or because of its name, but it has somehow morphed into a US politics thread... lol!

Some of you guys are awesome debaters. I wish you all had piped up in the 50 Tallest Proposals thread, about the height of tall towers near downtown...

When the word "Trump" is uttered all sense of normalcy goes out the window.

Originally Posted by lio45

I agree with geotag, it's true that the media factcheckers were pretty biased against Trump. I mean, you can make these stats say pretty much what you want, depending on how you count "lies". If an amount is mentioned that is slightly off, you can count that like you want. If he happens to say "Lincoln plant" instead of "Ford Motor Co. plant", you can choose to count that as a lie. And so on.

A few months ago, I decided to dig deeper into that factchecking as part of a SSP conversation we were having in the U.S. Election thread, and found that they weren't treating Trump very fairly. A lot of his so-called "lies" were actually merely just approximations, which IMO is a completely different thing.

You do realize of course that the fact checkers looked at all candidates, including Republicans, and they had different categories for half truths and outright lies. Trump was, by far, the biggest liar of them all. It wasn't even close. To put him at some sort of equivalency with Clinton is just intellectually dishonest. The fact that fact checkers got so much coverage just goes to show how low Trump has dragged the bar.

Whether or not there was a bias against Trump, there was nothing stopping Trump-friendly organizations from doing their own fact checking.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by geotag277

People don't talk politics online to have an honest discussion. Personalities that for whatever reason are drawn to these topics seem to be only interesting in lazily regurgitating the political talking points of the day.

I will note how both O-tacular and vid made almost identical comments regarding my attempt to clarify what I meant (Mister F also came close to alluding the same thing):





I think this rather neatly shows the rather disturbing penetration that propaganda in the form of political talking points has made, even within Canada regarding politics that concerns a neighbouring country.

To be honest, while of course I can recognize that the language I used was ambiguous, I find the interpretation that I would wholesale objectively deny the existence of any form of personality disorder rather ridiculous, and I assumed the first responses to my comment which took that interpretation were lazy trolls.

I suppose it gets back to the type of personality that enters political discussions online are actively hunting for the most sensationalized and least charitable interpretation of things.

Quit being such a martyr. It's not our fault you didn't communicate what you meant clearly enough. If you notice a similarity in our responses it's probably because your broad reaching claim about personality disorders resembled many of the same types of reactionary denials about things like Climate Change and Vaccinations.

[LeftCoaster]

So a 300 million dollar hotel being put up for sale get's its own thread and one of the biggest real estate transactions in Canadian history isn't even mentioned anywhere?

CADILLAC FAIRVIEW, ONTARIO PENSION BOARD AND THE WORKPLACE SAFETY AND INSURANCE BOARD ANNOUNCE PARTNERSHIP IN VANCOUVER PROPERTIES
Jan 20, 2017

January 20, 2017, Toronto – Cadillac Fairview (CF) is pleased to announce it has reached an agreement to sell a 50% interest in its Vancouver Portfolio to Ontario Pension Board (OPB) and the Workplace Safety and Insurance Board (WSIB), who have each acquired a 25% interest.

Representing approximately 4.0 million square feet of leasable space, the CF Vancouver portfolio, which includes CF Pacific Centre, one of North America’s top performing shopping centres, and 12 best-in-class office properties, is a rare collection of trophy assets situated in the heart of downtown Vancouver.

“As a proud owner and developer of commercial real estate in Vancouver for more than 40 years, it was critical for Cadillac Fairview to find like-minded partners who share in our long-term vision,” said John Sullivan, President and Chief Executive Officer, Cadillac Fairview.

“This deal gives us the rare opportunity to gain direct exposure to the tightly held Vancouver real estate market. As the economic and financial centre for Western Canada and the primary access point to Asian markets, Vancouver is expected to outperform other major Canadian cities going forward,” said Mark Fuller, President and CEO of the Ontario Pension Board. “It is also a great example of how asset pooling and scale help us gain direct access to high-quality assets that will help us generate strong returns over the long term.”

“Today's announcement proves the value of pooled asset management and its tremendous potential for the economy of Ontario,” said Tom Teahen, WSIB President and CEO. “This aligns with the WSIB's commitment to protect the interests of those we serve.”

These transactions build on a strong partnership between CF and OPB, who currently co-own four properties in downtown Toronto: RBC Centre, Toronto-Dominion Centre and two development properties at 16 York Street & 160 Front Street West. CF and WSIB also have an existing partnership as co-owners of Simcoe Place in downtown Toronto, which recently achieved LEED Platinum-EB certification.

About Cadillac Fairview
Cadillac Fairview is one of the largest owners, operators and developers of best-in-class office, retail and mixed-use properties in North America. The company also invests in retail, mixed-use and industrial real estate in Brazil, Colombia and Mexico.

Cadillac Fairview and its affiliates own over 38 million square feet of leasable space at 73 properties in Canada, which is valued at more than $29 billion, including landmark developments, such as Toronto-Dominion Centre, CF Toronto Eaton Centre, CF Pacific Centre and CF Chinook Centre.

Cadillac Fairview has been wholly owned by the Ontario Teachers’ Pension Plan since 2000. Ontario Teachers’ is a diversified global investor and administers the pensions of more than 300,000 active and retired school teachers.

About OPB

Ontario Pension Board administers Ontario’s Public Service Pension Plan, a defined benefit pension plan serving approximately 82,000 active, retired and deferred members and their employers. With more than $23 billion in assets, it is one of Canada’s largest pension plans. Over the last 20 years, Ontario Pension Board has become one of Canada's leading direct owners of high quality commercial real estate.

About WSIB

The Workplace Safety and Insurance Board is an independent trust agency that administers compensation and no-fault insurance for Ontario workplaces.
We are committed to delivering what matters to the workers and employers of Ontario: fast, accessible service and fair benefits at a fair price.

https://www.cadillacfairview.com/en_...roperties.html


BTW I think we should rename this thread the Canadian Commercial Real Estate thread so we can discuss the Trump transaction along with all the other transactions and news that occurs in the CRE community.

[koops65]

I created the thread because of the towers name, that's it.

I think renaming the thread is an excellent idea. It will also shut-up the ones who whine about a Toronto only subject in the Canada section.

[giallo]

Yeah. Let's change the name. It's a good idea for a new thread anyway.

[whatnext]

Am I the only one who finds it strange that lio45 and geotag277 consistently claim they are not supportive of Trump yet their continued defense of him borders on serious mancrush material? Very strange...

[Rollerstud98]

I find every ones obsession with him disturbing.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Am I the only one who finds it strange that lio45 and geotag277 consistently claim they are not supportive of Trump yet their continued defense of him borders on serious mancrush material? Very strange...

I've notice for awhile that geotag277 seems to be defending Trump a lot and his style of politics. Also that he seems to support far-right political ideology in general. That's how I see it... But he can correct me if I'm wrong.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Am I the only one who finds it strange that lio45 and geotag277 consistently claim they are not supportive of Trump yet their continued defense of him borders on serious mancrush material? Very strange...

lio is being a bit contrarian and I appreciate his views. Geotag on the other hand.. he has been ultra-critical of anything Justin Trudeau has done yet incredibly conciliatory with Trump. He does a gish-gallop word spam about stuff but it's pretty meaningless in the end.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by niwell

lio is being a bit contrarian and I appreciate his views. Geotag on the other hand.. he has been ultra-critical of anything Justin Trudeau has done yet incredibly conciliatory with Trump. He does a gish-gallop word spam about stuff but it's pretty meaningless in the end.

It's bit funny to me how individuals cherry pick my statements or seem to have rather spotty memories concerning the statements I make.

I, for the record, voted for the Liberals in 2015. I also voted for the NDP in Alberta. I have consistently defended Notley in discussions here, and have defended the Liberal federal government repeatedly from my Alberta countrymen whose arguments against them push the limits on asinine.

I call it like I see it, and that means calling out a mountain of BS from political discourse here, and both sides of the spectrum. My biggest criticism of the Liberals has been their deficit spending, to the extent that it is (Obama pulled back on his plans to spend once taking over given the state of the economy, and I applaud him for it, the Liberals I don't see making the same sacrifices). I also don't see the value to Canadians at large, and find their financial handling to recall past Liberal government disasters.

It is very telling that all some of you seem to see are those few instances where I called you out on your own BS. I think more than anything it shows how little you challenge your own views, and how fully you live in your own echo chamber bubbles, such that when someone does come along and disagree with you, you come away with a bruised ego, and seemingly can't recall anything else.

I have frequently criticized Trump for his tax plans, he climate change philosophy, and his potential approach to the supreme court. My ability to descent into political discussions beyond the John Oliver-style sound bite politics seems to have some of you absolutely confused and unsure how to respond, and instead of having any self awareness whatsoever, you just lash out at me.

I'm not sure how we reached such a point in Canadian political discourse, but it isn't a good sign.

[vid]

Loving all the people who have bitched about Trudeau since day one but when faced with criticism of Trump respond with "Trump is president now, might as well accept it"!

Originally Posted by geotag277

I, for the record, voted for the Liberals in 2015.

...

My biggest criticism of the Liberals has been their deficit spending

But he campaigned on that.

"My biggest criticism of the party for which I voted is the fact that they are doing the thing they said they'd do!!"