China, U.S. Reach Agreement on High-Speed Rail

[orulz]

xpresswest has a route already chosen and the project is already designed through the preliminary engineering phase.

It mostly runs adjacent to I-15 (Not in the median), with a few minor deviations and one major deviation near the Nevada/California Border where it will deviate significantly from I-15 through the Spring Mountains, including a couple bored tunnels and at least one significant viaduct. Most curves are designed for 150mph max speed but a few go down to about 100mph. The maximum grade appears to be around 4.5%.

FRA link here.

If the Chinese companies working on this project want to get this underway quickly, they will probably have to pretty much stick to the letter of the previous work, and get started by November 2016, since I believe environmental impact studies have a validity period of five years from the issuance of the ROD.

[Eightball]

Originally Posted by Hatman

Sure, yeah, if the train only goes to Victorville it is about as useful as a half-finished bridge. What would be useful is the full line between LA and LV, which is what was stated in the articles.
But now I want to know details! What is that map with the red dots? Surely not a route map? Will the train really run within the I-15 median? And will it only go as far as Palmdale, and then rely on the mercies of the ever-delayed California HSR? I got excited when I learned that there was real financial and technical backing for this project, but now I want to know what they're going to do with it!

Maybe I'm missing something, but why can't XpressWest just add catenary to the track between either Victorvile or Palmdale to LA Union Station and run their trains through there? Because it's freight rail co track? How much to just buy them out? I realize it would be lower speed w/o significant track improvements, but even doing 79mph top speed on that stretch would be great plus no changing trains.

[Hatman]

Excellent link, orulz, and thanks for the answers. I could be busy for hours looking through those engineering docs.
As for electrifying the freight/metrolink line between LA and Palmdale... I'm not sure that makes financial sense. Electrifying a line costs several millions of dollars ($4-12 million) per mile, and if such an investment would only be useful for a few years (until California HSR comes online), I don't think it would be economical. Perhaps Metrolink would contribute and run electric equipment on the line, but I doubt it.
But running a through service anyway would be a great improvement to leaving people desert, or making them transfer to Metrolink at Palmdale. What if Xpress West were to use the Acela trainset (or the Chinese equivalent), but instead of two electric locomotives, use the JetTrain on one end?
(The JetTrain was Bombardier's attempt to make a diesel version of the Acela so that it Amtrak could use the trainsets on more than just the Northeast Corridor)

Acela was designed for only one loco anyway (the other end was supposed to be a cab-car, but the FRA nixed that). So with one loco operating at a time, the train would be able to operate on both electrified and electrified track - sort of like NJT's Atlantic City Express Service, but with high speed equipment the whole way.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by Hatman

As for electrifying the freight/metrolink line between LA and Palmdale... I'm not sure that makes financial sense. Electrifying a line costs several millions of dollars ($4-12 million) per mile, and if such an investment would only be useful for a few years (until California HSR comes online), I don't think it would be economical. Perhaps Metrolink would contribute and run electric equipment on the line, but I doubt it.
But running a through service anyway would be a great improvement to leaving people desert, or making them transfer to Metrolink at Palmdale. What if Xpress West were to use the Acela trainset (or the Chinese equivalent), but instead of two electric locomotives, use the JetTrain on one end?
(The JetTrain was Bombardier's attempt to make a diesel version of the Acela so that it Amtrak could use the trainsets on more than just the Northeast Corridor)
Acela was designed for only one loco anyway (the other end was supposed to be a cab-car, but the FRA nixed that). So with one loco operating at a time, the train would be able to operate on both electrified and electrified track - sort of like NJT's Atlantic City Express Service, but with high speed equipment the whole way.

That wasn't a diesel in that red Bombardier locomotive, it was a gas turbine.

Why drag a heavy diesel locomotive around on the tail of a HSR train all the way to Las Vegas? It would be cheaper for both operations and capital to just couple on and off the diesel locomotive in Palmdale for the last dozens miles into LA. They would have to build a staging yard, or at least staging track for the diesels in Palmdale, but that cost will surely be less than the cost of one additional diesel.

The train doesn't have to travel between Palmdale and LA at extremely fast speeds, there are diesels available today that are capable of 110 mph speeds. The major problem at achieving faster than 79 mph speeds on this rail corridor between Palmdale and LA is the cab signaling requirement to do so on all locomotives - including any freight locomotives that will be running over it, and of course whatever tight curves that exist all trains must slow down for.

With that consideration, why not just transfer on or off Metrolink trains at Palmdale that are already providing service between Palmdale and LA?

[Hatman]

Turbine, not a diesel. Picky picky.
EDIT -Actually, it makes it cooler by being lighter than a diesel - so a good difference! /EDIT

Switching locos at Palmdale would save weight, but my thoughts are that it would take time. The faster the trip, the more attractive the service will be. If it can be done as simply as turn on the electric loco in front and switch off the TURBINE in the back, that takes just about as long as it would to board/detrain passengers (if there are any) at Palmdale. Also, I picked the JetTrain because, since it is built on the Acela platform, it presumably can tilt in the corners, which would make the trip from LA to Palmdale slightly faster. (I understand the locomotive doesn't need to tilt, only the passengers cars, but why not?)

Using Metrolink and then transfering sounds sad to me. It takes nearly two hours for the Metrolink train to get to Palmdale, and it only runs that far 15 times a day; the frequency is not great. It's better to have a one-seat ride on a sleek train in a matching consist that, even though it goes slowly between LA and Palmdale, would certainly go faster than the Metrolink because it wouldn't stop at the intermediary stations.
Just my thoughts, throwin' them out there for Express West to use for free...!

[Eightball]

An engine change is slow and annoying. A Metrolink transfer, even a timed one, is also a pain (have to lug your luggage to the new train etc).

The press release stated CAHSR and Xpress West will now be coordinating/working together on certain items. It just seems crazy to spend 5 billion on HSR and then not spend the additional 100 million or whatever to electrify Palmdale-LA. Maybe they can split the costs even as both services will be using the track. CAHSR can always upgrade the tracks later to faster running but just getting it electrified so that Xpress West can run straight into Union Station would be amazing.

[orulz]

I doubt a plan to electrify the antelope valley line would have legs. Chances are, like the CAHSR project, Xpresswest will terminate outside of the LA basin for several years until the CAHSR route into LA is completed. That is under study right now. I have a feeling it won't be too long until that end of the CA HSR line is completed; the bay area segment may however lag behind the Central Valley and the LA connection by a decade or so.

There is a still unfunded plan for a connection from the XpressWest line in Victorville, to the CAHSR line in Palmdale, called the High Desert Corridor. Hopefully this will be implemented as a direct track connection, not a cross-platform transfer of some sort.

Really, though, the most effective route would be to connect the two systems between Barstow on the Xpresswest and Mojave on the CAHSR line, rather than Victorville and Palmdale, since that would add only 15 miles to LA-LV trips (6 minutes at 150mph) while reducing SF-LV trips by 50 miles (20 minutes at 150mph)

[Jaycruz]

I posted a link on the LA Central Thread when the news broke a few days ago about this. My question to everybody on there was

Why isn't the Cajon Pass ( mountain pass that the 15 winds through to link Victorville and the lower Southern California Basin) being considered as an option to actually link LA with Vegas?

I know every company that has ever proposed a LA-Vegas HSR option has avoided this option and always take the Palmdale route are even the extreme southern route to avoid the Cajon Pass but why ?

They really cant blame the terrain because theres plenty of freight rail going through the Cajon Pass and its surviving just fine going through the pass..... plus going through the cajon pass would be a better return on investment.....Hitting the Inland Empire (San Bernadino/ Riverside metro) with a HSR Station ( a 5+ million residential valley / annexed suburb of LA) would make way more sense than palmdale which regionally is barely breaking 300k in population.

A Cajon Pass option and having the station end in the Inland Empire rather than Victorville makes more sense. The biggest complaint that people in southern California have with driving to vegas is the time it takes and the Cajon Pass which, besides the fires, can be at a sluggish 35mph at its peak. a Cajon Pass option can also hopefully link up to CAHSR or even spur to Union Station in Downtown LA on its own.

[orulz]

I would say that mountain pass routes are so expensive to build that it is likely that only one high speed rail route will ever get built from LA northbound. XpressWest would probably have to double or triple their budget in order to extend their route through Cajon, and then the project would be DOA, Chinese backing or no. The only way they will get to LA Union Station is if they ride on the coattails of he SF-LA project.

Probably the greatest benefit of the LA->Palmdale->Tehachapi->Bakersfield route that was chosen (much to the chagrin of some transport bloggers) is that it allows a route to both SF and LV to share a route to cross the San Gabriels. Cajon gets you to Vegas and Tejon gets you to SF but the Palmdale/Tehachapi route gets you to both.

[anday]

As its first meeting nears, high-speed rail panel already behind schedule

As the Nevada High-Speed Rail Authority prepares for its inaugural meeting Tuesday, the five-member board already is hopelessly behind in meeting a deadline established by the enabling legislation.

Board members meet for the first time at the Regional Transportation Commission of Southern Nevada headquarters at 5 p.m.

The board was established in May when Gov. Brian Sandoval signed Senate Bill 457 into law. The board's purpose is to oversee the development of what is being called the Nevada High-Speed Rail System, a train that would connect Southern Nevada with Southern California.

Initial board appointees are George Smith, executive vice president of Bank of America Merrill Lynch; Tina Quigley, general manager of the Regional Transportation Commission; Hualiang "Harry" Teng, director of the railroad, high-speed rail and transit initiative and an associate professor of UNLV's Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering; Fred Dilger, principal and transportation analyst at Black Mountain Research in Henderson; and Peter Thomas, managing partner of the Thomas & Mack Co. in Las Vegas.

Organizational topics dominate the first agenda, which also includes an explanation of the procedure for selecting a franchisee to build and maintain the railroad.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/tr...ehind-schedule

[anday]

Fast track for high-speed rail belongs to XpressWest


http://www.reviewjournal.com/busines...ngs-xpresswest

[scalziand]

And the deal's off with the Chinese.

XpressWest, seeking to build U.S. high-speed rail, ends deal with China group
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKCN0YV05R

[caligrad]

^^^ The article states "Delays with the Chinese company being the reason for the termination"

AKA, since the China stock market mess, China has reeled in most of its companies from investing abroad so that they can invest at home instead to keep the economy floating.