Chief William Commanda Bridge (Prince of Wales Bridge) | Closed for Winter

[WannabeLandscapeArch]

Hello all,

Please let me share an idea I had the other day.


As many of you know, "black bridge" extending from bayview station across the Ottawa river to aylmer is one of the sketchiest places in Ottawa. But I would also argue that it holds some of the nicest views and highest potential to be renovated as a pedestrian walk. I was just wondering if I am out to lunch and would love to hear everyone's comments on the idea, negative or positive. With significant retrofitting, lighting, and surveillance I feel there is potential for something special

[Urbanarchit]

The Prince of Wales Bridge is of historical significance, and it would be worthwhile fixing it up for people to walk (and possibly to bike?) across, with better access to the park (which could be beautified) similar to the highline.

At the same time, I'd like to see interprovincial transit here.

[silvergate]

I would love to see the O-train connect to Rapibus along it.
Both sides of the river have more industrial use here than housing, not to mention the bridge would be fairly separated from everything but riverside paths. Until and unless a large scale development happens right at the end of the bridge the amount of potential users may be limited, bringing to mind security concerns and a question of whether such a connection is necessary, considering there is a crossing a kilometre away along Booth.

[emannigol]

I'm quite sure this is planned for in the city's transportation master plan:

"Passed Motion To: WHEREAS works to implement a multi-use pathway structure to the Prince of Wales Bridge to provide a connection between the Ottawa and Gatineau cycling and pedestrian networks has been identified as a TMP Phase 1 project in the 2014 to 2019 period; and WHEREAS funding for the City of Ottawa’s share of the Prince of Wales multi-use pathway structure is estimated to be approximately $3 million and is to come from the $13-million budget envelope earmarked for cycling and pedestrian structures in Phase 1 of the TMP; and WHEREAS the $8.2 million in funding for the Rideau River Pedestrian Bridge (Donald Street – Somerset Street) is to also come from the same $13-million envelope; and WHEREAS a multi-use pathway bridge over Rideau Canal at Clegg Street and Fifth Avenue requires funding in excess of the $13 million in 2013 dollars earmarked for cycling and pedestrian structures in Phase 2 of the TMP; and WHEREAS public consultation has shown that there is good support for advancing all of the multi-use pathway structures indentified as providing significant connectivity improvements to the pedestrians and cyclists network, including, in the case of Clegg Street and Fifth Avenue, improved access to the redeveloped Lansdowne Park; and WHEREAS the Prince of Wales project is contingent on establishing a funding partnership amongst the City of Ottawa, the City of Gatineau and the National Capital Commission; and WHEREAS the initial TMP estimate for the Rideau Canal project is subject to a value engineering exercise; THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that, following the approval of the TMP, staff be directed to seek a partnership funding agreement for the Prince of Wales Bridge project at the earliest opportunity"

[eternallyme]

It would definitely be best suited for interprovincial transit - extending the O-Train line northward after a major rehabilitation of the bridge (with structural and seismic upgrades) and a passing track on Lemieux Island in the interim. However, due to the historic significance, the bridge should NOT be replaced if possible.

If the Trillium Line (then misnamed) is twinned, then a new bridge should be built immediately to the west of the historic bridge.

[J.OT13]

I would just convert to a bus bridge. Why force the Gatineau citizens to transfer at Alexandre-Taché onto a train just to transfer again on another train as soon as they cross the river?

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I would just convert to a bus bridge. Why force the Gatineau citizens to transfer at Alexandre-Taché onto a train just to transfer again on another train as soon as they cross the river?

Never thought of this before, but now that you mention it, ya, that does sound like the best option for connectivity, just extend the Rapibus transitway down to Bayview using the PoW bridge.

[citydwlr]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Never thought of this before, but now that you mention it, ya, that does sound like the best option for connectivity, just extend the Rapibus transitway down to Bayview using the PoW bridge.

Neat idea, but would they not have to build an extension on one side so buses could travel both ways? I don't think the current bridge is wide enough for two buses to fit side-by-side...

[WannabeLandscapeArch]

I agree that it's width is ideally suited to being a pedestrian/bike friendly connection and I imagine it would require significant structural retrofitting in addition to support the weight of buses. It would also need to be widened to accommodate two lanes of buses. I think it's interesting that they're looking into it and I'm excited to see how it progresses!

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by citydwlr

Neat idea, but would they not have to build an extension on one side so buses could travel both ways? I don't think the current bridge is wide enough for two buses to fit side-by-side...

They would have to, considering length of the bridge. But this is not a new concept; we did the same thing with the Interprovincial Bridge (added overhangs on both sides for bikes/pedestrians and north bound cars) and the "Pont Noir" over the Gatineau River, railway bridge since it's completion, they converted the main bridge for buses (one lane with traffic lights on both sides to control direction throughout the day) and added an overhang to re-route the trains.

[rocketphish]

I wonder how keen the City of Gatineau would be to funding an STO transportation corridor on the Prince of Wales bridge?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I would just convert to a bus bridge. Why force the Gatineau citizens to transfer at Alexandre-Taché onto a train just to transfer again on another train as soon as they cross the river?

Why would Gatineau citizens be so forced?

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I would just convert to a bus bridge. Why force the Gatineau citizens to transfer at Alexandre-Taché onto a train just to transfer again on another train as soon as they cross the river?

1) Those going to downtown Ottawa would not use the Prince of Wales Bridge train. They would use the existing buses (although STO would be able to somewhat reduce the number of buses crossing the Ottawa River).

2) Those going to south Ottawa (i.e. Carleton, Confederation Heights) or coming from south Ottawa (i.e. South Keys) going to Gatineau would no longer have to use downtown buses, instead could take a train to Gatineau or from Gatineau to south Ottawa. They benefit greatly from such a connection.

3) Those going from Gatineau to the west (i.e. Tunney's Pasture) already have to transfer. They add one transfer at Bayview, but it still would likely be quicker than going into downtown Ottawa, walking 3 or 4 blocks (or through the Rideau Centre) then boarding a westbound bus.

4) Those coming from the east or west in Ottawa and would otherwise transfer to Route 105 would (most likely) instead use the train from Bayview. A few may have a longer walk or could still use Route 8, but most have a shorter travel time.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

1) Those going to downtown Ottawa would not use the Prince of Wales Bridge train. They would use the existing buses (although STO would be able to somewhat reduce the number of buses crossing the Ottawa River).

2) Those going to south Ottawa (i.e. Carleton, Confederation Heights) or coming from south Ottawa (i.e. South Keys) going to Gatineau would no longer have to use downtown buses, instead could take a train to Gatineau or from Gatineau to south Ottawa. They benefit greatly from such a connection.

3) Those going from Gatineau to the west (i.e. Tunney's Pasture) already have to transfer. They add one transfer at Bayview, but it still would likely be quicker than going into downtown Ottawa, walking 3 or 4 blocks (or through the Rideau Centre) then boarding a westbound bus.

4) Those coming from the east or west in Ottawa and would otherwise transfer to Route 105 would (most likely) instead use the train from Bayview. A few may have a longer walk or could still use Route 8, but most have a shorter travel time.

1) I, as well as certain politicians (Mathieu Fleury for one) see the PoW as a way to eliminate all STO bus traffic from downtown Ottawa.

2) Either way, be it buses or trains on the PoW, they will get the same benefit.

3) At the end of the day, buses on the PoW is the best option for those heading in west Ottawa.

4) They would again have to transfer 2-3 times for those heading to downtown Hull with a rail PoW (Confederation to Trillium, Trillium to bus) as opposed to a bus based PoW which could have a OC Transpo route between Bayview and downtown Hull, or take an STO bus to the office towers along St-Joseph in Hull.

5) Crossing the O-Train to Gatineau would eliminate any chance of a direct airport to downtown line.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

5) Crossing the O-Train to Gatineau would eliminate any chance of a direct airport to downtown line.

How so?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

How so?

The Trillium Line is the only potential for a direct airport-downtown service. You extend it to Gatineau, their will never be any political will to re-route to downtown.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

They would have to, considering length of the bridge. But this is not a new concept; we did the same thing with the Interprovincial Bridge (added overhangs on both sides for bikes/pedestrians and north bound cars) and the "Pont Noir" over the Gatineau River, railway bridge since it's completion, they converted the main bridge for buses (one lane with traffic lights on both sides to control direction throughout the day) and added an overhang to re-route the trains.

Actually, the Alexandra bridge was built with and for three decks - they weren't add-ons. I think that the weight of the buses would be too much to add onto a bridge which wasn't conceived for it. A bike path, however, would be more plausible.



The fact that it's pretty far from downtown makes it a less-than-ideal connection for Gatineau residents: the two options are transfers or split frequency and neither of them is very good. It could, however, replace the rush-hour 200 bus to Ottawa, but anything outside of that (not rush-hour) is impractical.
It could be valuable for south or west-Ottawa residents making their way to downtown Hull with an O-Train connection. For Gatineau, for it to be both practical and politically possible, any rapid transit lines would have to pass through Hull first and foremost which means that we would need transit priority on downtown bridges.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Actually, the Alexandra bridge was built with and for three decks - they weren't add-ons. I think that the weight of the buses would be too much to add onto a bridge which wasn't conceived for it. A bike path, however, would be more plausible.



The fact that it's pretty far from downtown makes it a less-than-ideal connection for Gatineau residents: the two options are transfers or split frequency and neither of them is very good. It could, however, replace the rush-hour 200 bus to Ottawa, but anything outside of that (not rush-hour) is impractical.
It could be valuable for south or west-Ottawa residents making their way to downtown Hull with an O-Train connection. For Gatineau, for it to be both practical and politically possible, any rapid transit lines would have to pass through Hull first and foremost which means that we would need transit priority on downtown bridges.

A converted Prince of Wales Bridge would be more for connections to and from destinations that do not include downtown Ottawa, especially to the south and west.

Although it requires a fair amount of work, it could probably be done fairly quickly as there is no need to schedule around an existing transit schedule means they can work 24/7 on the project so it might be doable in one construction season. Only once will they need to close the Trillium Line, and that would be probably only for one weekend to connect the extension to the existing line at Bayview.

The work required:

* Refurbish the bridges, with seismic upgrades and structural improvements (if necessary which I think they are)
* Convert the track to continuously welded rail to maintain the same standards as the existing line
* Construct a passing track on Lemieux Island (the only place to fit it)
* Renovate the warehouse at Eddy/Tache (whichever is chosen) to construct a new station

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

* Renovate the warehouse at Eddy/Tache (whichever is chosen) to construct a new station

Does anyone know if the train could actually connect at Tache-UQO? And do trains use that track along the Rapibus corridor through Gatineau? Seems like the perfect thing to build an interprovincial transit agency for.
They could even put their headquarters on Chaudiere so that they're right in the middle.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by silvergate

Does anyone know if the train could actually connect at Tache-UQO? And do trains use that track along the Rapibus corridor through Gatineau? Seems like the perfect thing to build an interprovincial transit agency for.
They could even put their headquarters on Chaudiere so that they're right in the middle.

Yes, but it would not be desirable. There is much more ridership to be made in downtown Hull than at UQO, especially from Ontario.