HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Photography Forums > Found City Photos

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #14021  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2013, 12:41 AM
WS1911's Avatar
WS1911 WS1911 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Los Angeles County, California
Posts: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson View Post
Well, you've got Aliso Street marked as Ferguson Alley. Ferguson Alley runs off of Los Angeles Street directly across from the fire station at the head of Calle de los Negroes. And where is the Simpson Building in this shot. I love this pic, it's been one of my all time favorites but I'm not familiar with the Simpson Building.
Opps! It's a good thing I said I was hopefully right with the street names. I've fixed the image in my original post, but can't do anything about the image in your reply. The reason I put "later Sunset" under Marchessault is that my 1949 Thomas Guide makes it look like a continuation of Sunset. It's not labeled "Marchessault" at all. In the original post by westcork on the Simpson Building reconstruction, the very last photo from 1959 shows what looks like "Sunset Blvd."on the street sign on the south side of the building.

I just noticed tovangar2's comment on this also. Was it Sunset Blvd. from Main to Olvera St., then Marchessault from Olvera to Los Angeles St.? I'm confused.


LAPL

Last edited by WS1911; Apr 16, 2013 at 1:06 AM. Reason: add info
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14022  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2013, 1:43 AM
WS1911's Avatar
WS1911 WS1911 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Los Angeles County, California
Posts: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by tovangar2 View Post
A post on El Aliso is here: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=10490 with plenty of photos.


Can anyone make out the name of the bag company?:


It looks like Friedman Bag Company. Here is an L. A. Times article.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14023  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2013, 1:48 AM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: West Los Angeles
Posts: 2,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson View Post
Thanks, who was 'Simpson'? Earlier this was the location of the court building. I've spent a lot of hours looking at this image. I suspected maybe it was on the west side of Olvera Street (by process of elimination, truly, I knew virtually every other building in the pic).
I don't know who Simpson was http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=14028

What "court building"?

Here's a nice 1882 shot of the future site of the Simpson Building. I'm a little confused as to who originally built this adobe. Sepulveda or Downey? Somebody help me:

http://waterandpower.org/museum/Earl...s)_Page_1.html

There's an interactive 1850 map of LA here:
http://imgzoom.cdlib.org/Fullscreen....nd=calisphere#



Sunset only ran NW from the Plaza. In that area it used to be called Church St and then Bread St. I don't know what Marchessault was called before, probably nothing. The Plaza was just the Plaza.

Last edited by tovangar2; Apr 16, 2013 at 4:40 AM. Reason: fix link
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14024  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2013, 2:12 AM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: West Los Angeles
Posts: 2,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS1911 View Post
It looks like Friedman Bag Company. Here is an L. A. Times article.
Thanks so much. Now I wonder who was in that building before. It looks much older than the 20s when Friedman started.

On the 1909 map the bag company building is unmarked:

http://www.bigmapblog.com/2011/birds...f-los-angeles/

Last edited by tovangar2; Apr 18, 2013 at 8:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14025  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2013, 2:35 AM
MichaelRyerson's Avatar
MichaelRyerson MichaelRyerson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by tovangar2 View Post
I don't know who Simpson was. What "court building"?
The U.S. Court




PlazaMap3

Map of the old portion of the city surrounding the plaza, showing the old plaza church, public square, the first gas plant and adode buildings, Los Angeles city, March 12th, 1873 / A.G. Ruxton, surveyor.

Library of Congress
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14026  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2013, 3:05 AM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: West Los Angeles
Posts: 2,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson View Post
The U.S. Court
Thanks MR. The stuff I've forgotten is now greater than the stuff I know.

Did "Seguro" build this in 1834? Something else I need to Google. (I have seen it labeled as both the Sepulveda Adobe and Downey House, which I guess it was in turn.)

Olvera used to hear County Court cases in his adobe. The Plaza really was the civic center.

P.S.

"John G. Downey's Adobe (Townhouse)
North of Marchessault Street between Olvera Street and Bath Street (later North Main Street), Los Angeles. It faced the plaza on the north side. It was a large "L" shaped adobe that was owned by Pedro Seguro and used as a gambling house in the 1840s. Monte was the game of choice here. John G. Downey, a druggist, landowner, and one time Governor of California owned the adobe. Later, an Englishman, John Jones acquired the adobe. The Jones-Simpson family owned it for years. It was completed shrouded by trees."


http://www.laokay.com/Adobe-Sites-in...California.htm

And here it is in ca 1869 (center left), "completely shrouded by trees":

http://waterandpower.org/museum/Earl..._(Page_1).html

"Doria Deighton-Jones [John's wife] ordered the construction of the Jones and the Simpson-Jones buildings on the site of the family's adobe house on Olvera Street, which was torn down when Bath Street was widened and made an extension of Main Street. The former structure, built in [1844 by Pedro Seguro], was originally divided into five shops, housing at different times a cigar store, shooting gallery, machine shop, plumbing and tin shops and blacksmitheries. After Olvera Street became a Mexico-themed shopping and restaurant row in 1930, the main entryway was switched to the Olvera side—the entrance to the El Luz del Día restaurant.
The Simpson-Jones Building, constructed in 1894, has been altered to resemble a Mexican bank from "around 1960." The name honors the Joneses' daughter, Constance Jones Simpson, who inherited the property in 1908."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jo...Deighton-Jones

Last edited by tovangar2; Jun 17, 2015 at 8:43 PM. Reason: add P.S. + image
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14027  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2013, 3:23 AM
ProphetM ProphetM is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post

usc digital archive
Since Tovangar2 brought this photo back up...
Last October I went up to the City Hall observation deck with my kids and my Dad, and as it happens I took a shot in that direction. Here's a crop covering a little more area than the old pic:



Unfortunately it was not one of the shots I took with the big lens, but the blue & white Friedman Bag Company buildings are still very apparent.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14028  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2013, 4:07 AM
westcork westcork is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 181
Here are a few rare shots of the far side of the plaza. Still no court and still no Simpson building

The Pico House, sometimes called "Old Pico House", built by Pio Pico in 1869-70. Seen here in the distance from Fort Hill, and fronting on the Plaza and Main Street. The building is on the right side of the picture and only the front can be seen, but there do not appear to be any buildings ajacent to it.

LAPL

Plaza Church prior to 1869, showing fence around the entrance. [Note on photo: Father Adams says, "Where Buena Vista is now open, north on the hill stood a chapel from 1784 to 1812, where a friar from San Gabriel Mission said mass every Sunday and holidays." The fence around the Plaza was built by the owner of the reservoir (seen at extreme right of the photo). Later it was planted with trees and otherwise much improved.

LAPL


Plaza Farmer's Market - I am pretty sure this is facing the Marchessault direction too.

USC Via GSJansen
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14029  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2013, 4:11 AM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: West Los Angeles
Posts: 2,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProphetM View Post
Unfortunately it was not one of the shots I took with the big lens, but the blue & white Friedman Bag Company buildings are still very apparent.


Thank you PM so much.

Last edited by tovangar2; Jun 27, 2015 at 5:26 AM. Reason: delete extraneous
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14030  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2013, 4:16 AM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: West Los Angeles
Posts: 2,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by westcork View Post
Here are a few rare shots of the far side of the plaza. Still no court and still no Simpson building

The Pico House, sometimes called "Old Pico House", built by Pio Pico in 1869-70. Seen here in the distance from Fort Hill, and fronting on the Plaza and Main Street. The building is on the right side of the picture and only the front can be seen, but there do not appear to be any buildings ajacent to it.

LAPL

Plaza Church prior to 1869, showing fence around the entrance. [Note on photo: Father Adams says, "Where Buena Vista is now open, north on the hill stood a chapel from 1784 to 1812, where a friar from San Gabriel Mission said mass every Sunday and holidays." The fence around the Plaza was built by the owner of the reservoir (seen at extreme right of the photo). Later it was planted with trees and otherwise much improved.

LAPL


Plaza Farmer's Market - I am pretty sure this is facing the Marchessault direction too.

USC Via GSJansen
Pico House is on the south side of the Plaza. The top photo shows the west side of the hotel. The adobe in question is hidden by trees on the extreme left. The Olvera adobe is approximately in the center of the photo.

The Suguro/FPF Temple/Downey/Jones "Courthouse" adobe is in the second two pix. In the last one there's a sign that says, something..."Tilling" (?) on the roof of this same adobe, now with many fewer trees. One can usually find this adobe in old photos by looking for the distinctive scalloped, picket fence around the front.

P.S.

Yet more on the Simpson-Jones building: http://www.ci.la.ca.us/ELP/elpsshis4.htm

Last edited by tovangar2; Jun 27, 2015 at 5:28 AM. Reason: add P.S.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14031  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2013, 12:02 PM
MichaelRyerson's Avatar
MichaelRyerson MichaelRyerson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by tovangar2 View Post
Thanks MR. The stuff I've forgotten is now greater than the stuff I know.

Did "Seguro" build this in 1834? Something else I need to Google. (I have seen it labeled as both the Sepulveda Adobe and Downey House, which I guess it was in turn.)

Olvera used to hear County Court cases in his adobe. The Plaza really was the civic center.

Yes, Seguro but I read '1844' not '34. I really trust the Ruxton map. I've never caught him in error. I don't remember the Downey house being connected to Sepulveda. I think Sepulveda was across the street to the west. Although, Sepulveda certainly shows up all over the Plaza area. Also if you look closely you'll see the 'shrouded in trees' is how Ruxton depicts the house with the trees planted all along the south facing arcade.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14032  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2013, 3:19 PM
MichaelRyerson's Avatar
MichaelRyerson MichaelRyerson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,132
Have we seen this image before?


La Golondrina before the paint brushes and cafe tables, ca.1928


Misidentified in the archives as "View of Marchessault Street in Los Angeles's Chinatown, looking west towards City Hall, November 1933" We know you couldn't have a view of City Hall looking west on Marchessault Street. This is Olvera Street looking south and judging from the decrepit condition of the street much earlier than 1933, perhaps 1927-8. We can pick out the Pelanconi House which would become the La Golondrina café in 1930 here on the right before the paint brushes and outside seating. The next two-story brick house is the back of the Sepulveda house which numbers on Main Street (Thanks and a shout out to ethereal_reality). Up the street on the right is the back of the Simpson building which faces the Plaza. Great early shot of this iconic street.

USC digital archive/Dick Whittington Photography Collection, 1924-1987

Last edited by MichaelRyerson; Apr 16, 2013 at 9:12 PM. Reason: added Sepulveda House reference thanks to e_r.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14033  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2013, 8:27 PM
ethereal_reality's Avatar
ethereal_reality ethereal_reality is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Lafayette/West Lafayette IN, Purdue U.
Posts: 14,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson View Post
Yes, Seguro but I read '1844' not '34. I really trust the Ruxton map. I've never caught him in error. I don't remember the Downey house being connected to Sepulveda. I think Sepulveda was across the street to the west. Although, Sepulveda certainly shows up all over the Plaza area. Also if you look closely you'll see the 'shrouded in trees' is how Ruxton depicts the house with the trees planted all along the south facing arcade.

The Sepulveda House (built 1887) in the 1920s. 'Italian Sausage Factory'


unknown




Years later, a view along north Main Street. (late 1950s..early 1960s?)


http://photos.lapl.org/carlweb/jsp/p...ch_pageADV.jsp





http://photos.lapl.org/carlweb/jsp/p...ch_pageADV.jsp






circa 1978.

unknown









The Sepulveda House today.


Robert Garcias http://www.cityprojectca.org/




Olvera street in the back

google earth



http://elpueblo.lacity.org/

fascinating history: I am amazed the building has 22 rooms, I didn't realized it was so large. I'm also trying to visualize the 'breezeway' that separates the front businesses from the private quarters in the back.

__

Last edited by ethereal_reality; Apr 16, 2013 at 9:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14034  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2013, 8:54 PM
ethereal_reality's Avatar
ethereal_reality ethereal_reality is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Lafayette/West Lafayette IN, Purdue U.
Posts: 14,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson View Post

La Golondrina before the paint brushes and cafe tables, ca.1928


Misidentified in the archives as "View of Marchessault Street in Los Angeles's Chinatown, looking west towards City Hall, November 1933" We know you couldn't have a view of City Hall looking west on Marchessault Street. This is Olvera Street looking south and judging from the decrepit condition of the street much earlier than 1933, perhaps 1927-8. We can pick out the Pelanconi House which would become the La Golondrina café in 1930 here on the right before the paint brushes and outside seating. Up the street on the right is the back of the Simpson building which faces the Plaza. Great early shot of this iconic street.

USC digital archive/Dick Whittington Photography Collection, 1924-1987

Hi MR; the building in the center is the rear of the Sepulveda House.


Here's the same view from the opposite direction.

http://www.lapl.org/




and today

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8348059...57627184161081
__

Last edited by ethereal_reality; Apr 16, 2013 at 9:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14035  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2013, 9:07 PM
MichaelRyerson's Avatar
MichaelRyerson MichaelRyerson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
MR, the building in the center is the back of the Sepulveda House.


Here's the same view from the opposite direction.

http://www.lapl.org/
__
Yes it is, good catch. I should have gotten that in my caption. Going to my photo-stream now to include it (with attribution of course).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14036  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2013, 10:03 PM
ethereal_reality's Avatar
ethereal_reality ethereal_reality is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Lafayette/West Lafayette IN, Purdue U.
Posts: 14,353
When I first saw these two postcards as thumbnails on ebay I thought I had found photographs of the elusive Monkey Island.
I was wrong


ebay







ebay

__

Last edited by ethereal_reality; Apr 16, 2013 at 10:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14037  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2013, 10:13 PM
MichaelRyerson's Avatar
MichaelRyerson MichaelRyerson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
When I saw this as a thumbnail on ebay I thought I had found a photograph of the elusive Monkey Island. -I was wrong.


ebay
__
I have to admit, I still look for it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14038  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2013, 10:56 PM
ethereal_reality's Avatar
ethereal_reality ethereal_reality is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Lafayette/West Lafayette IN, Purdue U.
Posts: 14,353
It's 'noirish Los Angeles's Holy Grail. (along with that unidentified streamline-modern building. you know the one)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14039  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2013, 1:01 AM
Albany NY's Avatar
Albany NY Albany NY is offline
I Like Turtles!
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 162
[B]Location of Monkey Island????[/B]

The exact location of Monkey Island always seems to elude us, but I found something interesting on laist.com. They have posted a flyer for Monkey Island (date unknown) that shows the address as 3300 Cahuenga Blvd.

laist.com

Additionally, HistoricAerials.com has aerial shots of that address from 1948 and 1954, both of which seem to show the plastic "mountain" at Monkey Island (though the park may have been long-since closed by then).

1948

historicaerials.com

1954

historicaerials.com

And finally, by 1972, all traces of Monkey Island seem to be gone. A small park is located there now.

historicaerials.com

So....does this finally end the mystery, or are we still looking for the monkeys?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14040  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2013, 2:39 AM
tovangar2 tovangar2 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: West Los Angeles
Posts: 2,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson View Post
Yes, Seguro but I read '1844' not '34. I really trust the Ruxton map. I've never caught him in error. I don't remember the Downey house being connected to Sepulveda. I think Sepulveda was across the street to the west. Although, Sepulveda certainly shows up all over the Plaza area. Also if you look closely you'll see the 'shrouded in trees' is how Ruxton depicts the house with the trees planted all along the south facing arcade.
Thanks. The "1834" was just a typo. I added a P.S. to that post: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=14028

I may have just been confused about Sepulveda b/c of the two Sepulveda adobes to the east on the other side of Wine/Olvera St.

Thanks e_r too for all the pix of Sepulveda House.



Albany NY: I'm not looking for monkeys. "Monkey bit me. Quit."
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts

Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Photography Forums > Found City Photos
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:25 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.