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  #521  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2018, 7:12 AM
JMKeynes JMKeynes is offline
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I'm very dubious about China Oceanwide's ability to develop this tower given the Chinese government's latest proscriptions against overseas property ventures . I think that this will only proceed with the current owner only if its principals are favored by "Chairman" Xi.

This was a prescient comment, which I've been saying for over a year.
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  #522  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2018, 12:58 PM
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This tower will obviously get built, the question is when.

They spent hundreds of millions in additional air rights, so obviously if they don't build, someone else will. No one builds less than what's entitled in Manhattan, and this is entitled for over 1400 ft.
Exactly.
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  #523  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2018, 1:51 PM
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That’s true.
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  #524  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2018, 2:31 PM
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Couldn't they sell some of their air rights to a nearby property, or couldn't another developer that bought the property?
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  #525  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2018, 3:07 PM
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I think they are going to hold onto the property until the conditions improve, and they ascertain financing. Patient capital scenario. They wouldn't have high risk holding on to the site, so it'll sit, until the time is right.
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  #526  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2018, 2:38 PM
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1,436-Foot Tall 80 South Street Becomes Largest Likely Casualty Of Chinese-Owned Development Bust

BY: FRANK HILL 8:00 AM ON NOVEMBER 26, 2018

Quote:
Ever since the Beijing-based conglomerate China Oceanwide Holdings acquired two sites in New York’s South Street Seaport from Howard Hughes Corp. in the Financial District in 2016 for $390 million, the site’s future has remained as opaque as the company itself. Oceanwide apparently planned to build a mixed-use supertall as high as 1,436 feet at 80 South Street (which includes the second site it purchased from Howard Hughes at 163 Front Street).

In February 2016, China Oceanwide secured approval from the City Planning Commission for the transfer of an additional 426,940 square feet of air rights to the site for a combined total of 1,067,350 square feet, including 512,300 square feet for residential units. In May 2017, the company submitted plans to demolish the existing buildings at the site.

However, since then there has been a remarkable lack of activity. No demolition work has been carried out at either of the two sites purchased from Howard Hughes and no plans have been submitted to the city’s Department of Buildings. Despite this complete lack of activity since 2016, an announcement to shareholders by China Oceanwide on August 30th , 2018 covering the preceding six months stated with regard to 80 South that “the conceptual design of the project has been completed and the schematic design is currently in progress” without providing any further details.

The lack of activity at 80 South might not seem particularly significant if it were an isolated case. But China Oceanwide has been on a massive real estate buying spree, fueled by a seemingly limitless access to credit made possible perhaps in part by the conglomerate’s opaque structure (it has more than 100 subsidiaries) and good political connections. 80 South is just one of a number of Oceanwide’s real estate development mega projects in the U.S. which have been stalled for years.
http://newyorkyimby.com/2018/11/1436...ment-bust.html

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  #527  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2018, 4:08 PM
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Again, lots of speculation on nothing much. They could be likely to sell, but they've only owned the site since 2016. That makes 2 years. By that calculation, many developments in the city have been stalled for years before anything moves forward on site.


Quote:
...there has been a remarkable lack of activity. No demolition work has been carried out at either of the two sites purchased from Howard Hughes and no plans have been submitted to the city’s Department of Buildings.

Despite this complete lack of activity since 2016, an announcement to shareholders by China Oceanwide on August 30th , 2018 covering the preceding six months stated with regard to 80 South that “the conceptual design of the project has been completed and the schematic design is currently in progress” without providing any further details.

The lack of activity at 80 South might not seem particularly significant if it were an isolated case. But China Oceanwide has been on a massive real estate buying spree, fueled by a seemingly limitless access to credit made possible perhaps in part by the conglomerate’s opaque structure (it has more than 100 subsidiaries) and good political connections. 80 South is just one of a number of Oceanwide’s real estate development mega projects in the U.S. which have been stalled for years.


I wouldn't assume that they would be able to build, even if they weren't scaling back on development.

Furthermore, if they did decide to sell, with all approvals already in place, another developer would likely buy the site.











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Last edited by NYguy; Nov 27, 2018 at 4:21 PM.
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  #528  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2018, 3:35 AM
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So basically in the near future we could still see a 1,400+ foot building rise here...
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  #529  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2018, 3:56 AM
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So basically in the near future we could still see a 1,400+ foot building rise here...
I don't know about how soon, but there is no reason to think that we wouldn't see this tower rise here. All the towers that will ever be built in New York City aren't under construction right now, and there's no reason they need to or should be.
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  #530  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2018, 2:42 PM
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Who was working on this last? I remember it being at Morali for a bit, can't recall which architect landed this after them.
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  #531  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2018, 2:53 PM
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Who was working on this last? I remember it being at Morali for a bit, can't recall which architect landed this after them.
It was with Howard Hughes Corp, part of their Seaport development, but they have their hands full with the Seaport. It was with Sciame development before Morali. The Hughes Corp was responsible for the air rights transfers, which the sale to Oceanwide was contingent on. SHoP was brought in by Hughes.
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  #532  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2018, 8:08 PM
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I hope that in 2019 will begin the construction of this tower.
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  #533  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2018, 4:17 AM
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I hope that in 2019 will begin the construction of this tower.
I'd just be happy for a rendering. Anything more would be great of course.
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  #534  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2018, 6:25 PM
BrownTown BrownTown is offline
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I hope that in 2019 will begin the construction of this tower.
Doesn't really seem likely given the current US and China tensions and the probability the current economic cycle will be ending in 2019.
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  #535  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2018, 6:31 PM
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Doesn't really seem likely given the current US and China tensions and the probability the current economic cycle will be ending in 2019.
Maybe, although if they can make money I don't see why they wouldn't turn a blind eye.
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  #536  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 8:43 PM
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Officially on the market. Now a developer with intent to build can purchase this site and possibly get things moving.



https://commercialobserver.com/2019/...-south-street/

China Oceanwide Holdings Quietly Marketing 80 South Street for $300M

BY CATHY CUNNINGHAM AND LAUREN ELKIES SCHRAM
FEBRUARY 11, 2019


Quote:
China Oceanwide Holdings has put its 80 South Street building on the market just shy of three years since acquiring the Financial District property, Commercial Observer can first report. Initial pricing talk for the asset is a little under $300 million, according to an investor source with knowledge of the plan.

Cushman & Wakefield’s Adam Spies has been tapped to market the site. He didn’t respond to requests for comment.

Sources said that only five firms have been approached to bid on the property. Those five firms couldn’t be confirmed by press time.
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  #537  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 9:10 PM
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I wonder which 5 firms were approached to buy it?

Hopefully JDS, Extell and Macklowe were among them. They have a proven track record of having the balls to build as big as possible
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  #538  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 9:18 PM
Prezrezc Prezrezc is offline
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Extell!

Ex...Freaking...Tell!!!

While they're at it, they can clean up the OneSeaport mess that should not have been committed to if the developers there had a set big enough to admit not having the foresight to do so...as I understand it.
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  #539  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 9:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jackster99 View Post
I wonder which 5 firms were approached to buy it?

Hopefully JDS, Extell and Macklowe were among them. They have a proven track record of having the balls to build as big as possible

I'd be surprised if Extell and JDS weren't among the group. Maybe it's time for the two to finally collaborate on something.
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  #540  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2019, 9:21 PM
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I wonder if Silverstein is among the bidders? He seems very bullish at the moment.
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