Is it time for Ontario to be split up into new Provinces?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Ontario does a very poor job of recognizing Northern Ontario. That is something that needs to be changed. We need to have regions like Quebec does instead of districts. We don't brand ourselves very well at all. It's so boring hearing just Northern, Northeastern and Northwestern Ontario.

I also have to add that the Premier of Quebec will visit Rouyn-Noranda a number of times each year but we in Timmins are lucky if the Premier visits even once every few years. Timmins and Rouyn are pretty close in population and both places are regional centres. And I'm talking about Premiers over the last couple of decades, not just the current ones. Kathleen Wynne has visited Timmins more often than any Premier in recent memory. Dalton McGuinty never once visited Timmins during his 10 years as Premier!!!

1) Quebec is not as large as Ontario.

2) Quebec is not as populated as Ontario.

3) Quebec's population is not as geographically disparate as Ontario in absolute terms.

4) Quebec's population ratios between it's urban and remote communities aren't as extreme. The GTA to Timmins is much worse the Montreal to Rouyn.

All that said, I absolutely agree that the Premier should make an attempt to visit Northern Ontario annually. I'd even support having a "Summer Parliament" up there for the legislature.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

1) Quebec is not as large as Ontario.

2) Quebec is not as populated as Ontario.

3) Quebec's population is not as geographically disparate as Ontario in absolute terms.

4) Quebec's population ratios between it's urban and remote communities aren't as extreme. The GTA to Timmins is much worse the Montreal to Rouyn.

All that said, I absolutely agree that the Premier should make an attempt to visit Northern Ontario annually. I'd even support having a "Summer Parliament" up there for the legislature.

I would rather suggest a winter one so they know what's it like to travel on the TCH with their lives at stake every single second.
I would even suggest having it right at Temiskaming Shores so they would feel the horror, firsthand, of travelling on the 11 through Temagami.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I would rather suggest a winter one so they know what's it like to travel on the TCH with their freaking lives at freaking stake every single freaking second.

They would fly up here and then be chauffeured around.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

They would fly up here and then be chauffeured around.

We can pressure them into driving there by saying/citing that travelling by air costs too much of taxpayers' money. Also now they know firsthand how expensive (is that true?) gas is up north too.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

We can pressure them into driving there by saying/citing that travelling by air costs too much of taxpayers' money. Also now they know firsthand how expensive (is that true?) gas is up north too.

Name me one politician that actually cares what we think.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Name me one politician that actually cares what we think.

Fine.
Welp in that case, no winter or summer parliament will even happen to begin with.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Fine.
Welp in that case, no winter or summer parliament will even happen to begin with.

I am impressed that a politician not from here comes here EVER!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

1) Quebec is not as large as Ontario.

2) Quebec is not as populated as Ontario.

3) Quebec's population is not as geographically disparate as Ontario in absolute terms.

4) Quebec's population ratios between it's urban and remote communities aren't as extreme. The GTA to Timmins is much worse the Montreal to Rouyn.

.

Quebec is actually larger than Ontario in area. There are populated places in Quebec (like along Ungava Bay) that are 2000 km from Montreal. Everywhere in Ontario is closer to Toronto than that.

Overall though, both provinces are fairly similar on this metric. It's not significantly more challenging from a geographic perspective to govern Ontario than it is to govern Quebec.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

We can pressure them into driving there by saying/citing that travelling by air costs too much of taxpayers' money. Also now they know firsthand how expensive (is that true?) gas is up north too.

Flying is actually less expensive. It would cost me about $250 in gas to get to Toronto and back if I drove, and a round-trip flight via Porter is only about $400 if you get it on sale, but the time difference is massive: driving back and forth would take over 40 hours, flying only takes 3 and a half. If time is money, flying is far less expensive. It's also safer. On carbon emissions it's probably a bit worse, but the planes were going to fly anyway—having 120 people drive back and forth is added, unnecessary trips. I can't speak for the other cities, but lots of Thunder Bayers fly instead of driving to Toronto because it's easier. I would estimate that the majority of people going between Thunder Bay and Toronto are flying. Nearly 1,000 seats per day in both directions, but the highway only gets 2,500 AADT at Nipigon and most of that is trucks.

Let them take the train here instead.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

1) Quebec is not as large as Ontario.

Excuse my French, but j'ai un pont pour vendre à tu.

[Dengler Avenue]

Vouliez-vous dire que tu as un pointe à lui vendre??

(Seriously, if done wrong, one of us is gonna embarrass ourselves in front of Acajack.)

[vid]

I'm not conversational in French so I don't know the idioms but in English when someone shows gullibility or expresses something objectively incorrect, you can tell them "I have a bridge to sell you".

You aren't as good at English idioms which might be why you didn't get it. French idioms trip me up all the time, I get to one when reading the language and I basically lose the ability to continue reading because it makes no sense to me. I can only understand simple, instructional texts in French.

[Dengler Avenue]

Nice you got me there.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by vid

I'm not conversational in French so I don't know the idioms but in English when someone shows gullibility or expresses something objectively incorrect, you can tell them "I have a bridge to sell you".

You aren't as good at English idioms which might be why you didn't get it. French idioms trip me up all the time, I get to one when reading the language and I basically lose the ability to continue reading because it makes no sense to me. I can only understand simple, instructional texts in French.

Idioms are one of the toughest things to learn as they're rarely intuitive.

The grammatically correct way to say it in French is "j'ai un point à vous vendre", but we don't really say that in French.

There is no true equivalent, but we might say something like "si tu crois au Père Noël" (if you believe in Santa Claus).

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Quebec is actually larger than Ontario in area. There are populated places in Quebec (like along Ungava Bay) that are 2000 km from Montreal. Everywhere in Ontario is closer to Toronto than that.

Overall though, both provinces are fairly similar on this metric. It's not significantly more challenging from a geographic perspective to govern Ontario than it is to govern Quebec.

Yeah I should have been more specific. The settled area of Quebec is not as large. Just look at the population of Northern Quebec and it's distribution, compared to Northern Ontario.

Broadly, it's easier for a politician to get around to Quebec's rural communities because more of them are closer to Quebec City. And in comparison to Ontario, more of the remote communities are relevant because Quebec's population is less concentrated in Montreal compared to how much the GTA dominates Ontario. All in all that provides strong incentive for politicians to get around. They need the votes.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Yeah I should have been more specific. The settled area of Quebec is not as large. Just look at the population of Northern Quebec and it's distribution, compared to Northern Ontario.

Broadly, it's easier for a politician to get around to Quebec's rural communities because more of them are closer to Quebec City. And in comparison to Ontario, more of the remote communities are relevant because Quebec's population is less concentrated in Montreal compared to how much the GTA dominates Ontario. All in all that provides strong incentive for politicians to get around. They need the votes.

about 5M people live within 100km of downtown Montréal, 60% of 8.4M

[Doady]

It would be good idea to twin TCH through Northern Ontario to help unite Canada, and maybe it would help to unite Northern and Southern Ontario too. Physical integration might help with political integration.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Doady

It would be good idea to twin TCH through Northern Ontario to help unite Canada, and maybe it would help to unite Northern and Southern Ontario too. Physical integration might help with political integration.

IMO this is the real reason to twin 17.
If construction resumes on the stretch between Whiteshell and Kenora, that will be no small (positive) gesture, as such process will involve the feds, 2 provincial governments and many FN's along the route.
Sadly, patriotism doesn't sell these days. Not even my Toronto friends care.
Edit: It also doesn't help that the federal government either favours Western Canada or Ontario + Quebec, making it almost dichotomous.

As for the latter point, if the twinning does go down Upper Ottawa Valley, then sure thing. Like I said in the other post, though, if Quebec twins their 117 all the way past Rouyn-Noranda, that's a game-changer.

I also believe that if the plan to twin TCH gets blocked in the provincial legislature for whatever reason, a referendum should be immediately called to decide whether the north shall leave or stay. Such is the last resort.

Ps: Never mind what I just said. With the outcome of the SK case, everything’s a lost cause now.

[Dengler Avenue]

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...=232301&page=4

So far, within the context of Northern Ontario, we have been talking about an east-west split all this time. But a further north-south split seems even more sensible lol.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...=232301&page=4

So far, within the context of Northern Ontario, we have been talking about an east-west split all this time. But a further north-south split seems even more sensible lol.

The real differences are between the southern and northern portions. Indigenous majority in the northern part with isolated communities with no road access.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...=232301&page=4

So far, within the context of Northern Ontario, we have been talking about an east-west split all this time. But a further north-south split seems even more sensible lol.

Originally Posted by Loco101

The real differences are between the southern and northern portions. Indigenous majority in the northern part with isolated communities with no road access.

Ontario is bigger than some countries. Southern Ontario is bigger than some countries.

The risk we run is if a N/S split gains traction, there could be a further E/W split from the GTA.

Realistically, each of those 4 regions could be self supporting.