Austin - Why do we preserve Capitol views?

JAM · #1 Posted **Sep 20, 2007, 1:43 PM**

What are some good reasons to preserve the Capitol views? Some of the views make perfect sense, because they are in areas where the masses can enjoy them. Are there others views positioned so that only a select group of people in far off places can see? Can't people just take a trip downtown if they want to see the Capitol? Does it make sense to preserve these views at the expense of sprawl?

Just curious what some of the rationale is. It certainly seems that a fair trade-off should be made, but exactly where is that trade-off? Sorry, I know we've discussed this before, but I am having troubles remembering. They say the memory is the 2nd thing to go!

shane453 · #2 Posted **Sep 20, 2007, 6:15 PM**

Well it's nice to be able to see a capitol dome from far off... I think it's really majestic. Definitely worth preserving some views. Obviously that's much harder to do when the capitol is right in the downtown area.

priller · #3 Posted **Sep 20, 2007, 8:48 PM**

There seem to be an awful lot of them. I wouldn't mind if they preserved a smaller number of select views and got rid of some of the more narrow view corridors.

ATXboom · #4 Posted **Sep 20, 2007, 10:17 PM**

Way too many IMO. Having a downtown is almost impossible with all of them.

Look at DC... they have 8 or so and build broad roads along each corridor.

I think we need about 8 max. North and south, East and West, SW/NE, SE,NW. Done. Simplify baby!

Jdawgboy · #5 Posted **Sep 21, 2007, 12:07 AM**

I agree some of these views they want to protect are obsolete and are not good views of the capital in the first place.

arbeiter · #6 Posted **Sep 21, 2007, 1:33 AM**

It's not really that easy to see the Capitol anyway from the so-called corridors. From South Congress might be the most obvious, but that'll never go away due to the fact that the road is a straight shot into the complex. Really, they should have just built Austin more like DC, with wide avenues that all descended on the Capitol complex, then you would have built in view corridors. Instead what you get is an archaic technique to prevent development.

MichaelB · #7 Posted **Sep 21, 2007, 2:23 AM**

What ever happened to putting yourself in someone elses shoes? So who on here actually has a view of he capitol that he/she paid a premium for.... having researched the view cooridor. And who, who has suggested changing the corridors, would loose money because the corridors were changed. And if that were you , would it change your opinion? And lastly, do you think folks who;s property values would be negativly impacted by the change of a law should be compensated? And what if that were you?

KevinFromTexas · #8 Posted **Sep 21, 2007, 2:50 AM**

Yeah, but wide avenues suck for pedestrians. No thanks. I even complain about Congress being too wide sometimes.

Some of the corridors could go. I'd at least keep one along I-35, the two corridors between 12th & 15th. I know it's been discussed before about that one eventually going away if they lower I-35 or even tunnel it, but let's say they build a park near there or a nice avenue which could be landscaped and provide a view. Some of the views farther south along the interstate could go. Heck, the best view there ever was the one along the interstate which is gone now (near Riverside) with the construction of the Omni.

I would however strongly suggest keeping the ones that double up on themselves. For instance, there's some from the southwest that if preserved would protect 4 views in one narrow path. Those 4 corridors also quickly jet outside of downtown, so few highrise projects would be affected.

Also, take a look at the map. A few of the corridors cross over parks. Some of these, Waterloo Park and Woolridge Square, are very near the Capitol. If it's determined that a few of those corridors should go, then it would at least be nice to keep the corridor intact at least from those parks.

I could also see doing away with the Lamar one only if they kept it intact enough to be seen from the pedestrian bridge. That would open up a good number of blocks to taller development, but would still keep the dome visible from that area, and from a more pedestrian friendly parklike setting (the pedestrian bridge).

ATXboom · #9 Posted **Sep 21, 2007, 3:29 PM**

I would call myself a fool for purchasing any property based on man made development restrictions which could always be changed. Now purchasing on a cliff or hill top... sure. I would not pay for a view of the capital regardless.

MichaelB · #10 Posted **Sep 21, 2007, 4:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATXboom

I would call myself a fool for purchasing any property based on man made development restrictions which could always be changed. Now purchasing on a cliff or hill top... sure. I would not pay for a view of the capital regardless.

I, with respect, disagree. If we can not reasonably believe that laws are not mere whims then how do we co-exist as a negoitated socitey? There is certainly a "reasonable" standard to apply, and then judge for yourself... but to think nothing can be taken for face value is a sad comment, IMHO. Luckliy I was aware that such laws are subject to change and made an evaluation that the corridor that protects my rather spectacular view of the Capitol would not be F*cked with. ( it protects the view from the Capitol to the UT Tower). I am all about "buyer beware". Consumers need to do their research. It may not hold value for all, but Capitol views do command a premium. Again, I beg you to think about what a zoning change would do to your property value and then apply the same standard. I also think there is sometimes a lack of empathy applied to folks who live in highrises. We need to understand that folks who live in highrises live in neigbohoods. They are just vertical!

arbeiter · #11 Posted **Sep 21, 2007, 4:22 PM**

Sorry, I don't have much sympathy - the right of a single-family house or small condo to have a view of the capitol is trumped by the greater needs of a growing city. Anyone with a high-rise condo would likely not be affected that much. I wouldn't advocate getting rid of all the view corridors, only the ones that don't really have any big buildings in their path. Most of the east side ones and the northside ones.

JAM · #12 Posted **Sep 21, 2007, 4:48 PM**

MichaelB's position is a good reason to keep the corridor. That doesn't mean anyone has to agree with it. But it certainly should be seriously considered.

Are the corridor's a law or a city ordinance?

ATXboom · #13 Posted **Sep 21, 2007, 6:59 PM**

Totally understand your individual perspecitve... however I don't have sympathy... laws change every day in this country, though my main point is one persons view does not trump the needs/improvement of a growing city. Arbeiter summed it up best:

"Sorry, I don't have much sympathy - the right of a single-family house or small condo to have a view of the capitol is trumped by the greater needs of a growing city. Anyone with a high-rise condo would likely not be affected that much. I wouldn't advocate getting rid of all the view corridors, only the ones that don't really have any big buildings in their path. Most of the east side ones and the northside ones."

MichaelB · #14 Posted **Sep 21, 2007, 8:11 PM**

This is a good debate. So please answer how you would feel if a zoning law were to threaten your property value..folks keep avoiding this thouhgt... would your point of view be different? I just think there is much to consider and empathey is a good thing. I think it is too easy to dismiss the rights of folks who have abided by the law only to have the law change. Some of these thoughts of "greater good" are the same reasonings given for eminenet domain proceedings. Beware the support of the "Greater Good" least your's be the next home in the way of progress.

So would your veiw be different if we were talking about your property?

ATXboom · #15 Posted **Sep 21, 2007, 9:30 PM**

Good point Michael... depends so much on the Epoch or time and of course the individual.

I grew up in typical single family residence suburbia... I have lived almost the past 10 years - not in suburbia but single family residential neighborhoods. I did not want a business or multifamily place near me, let alone visible to me.

The past 2 years I thought about the greater good of mother earth and community and left all my baggage in "suburbia"... I bought a home next to a 2 story multi-family place and have condos going in around me... there were business a block away... I would never have made such a radical leap for me... but I did and I'll never go back. Convenience is awesome... socially its awesome. Loved it.

I recently bought a single family place in town with lower Burnet in view [lots of business and not the prettiest... condos are going in 1 house down and there is a large multi family place across the street.

I'm not answering your question very directly but I would be very upset at these things a few years back. I want infill and ubanization to bloom around me. I live in central city and I expect this to happen... if it doesn't then something is wrong with the local economy...

Oddly enough with all these various zoned developments going around me my property value goes up even more... not the same as a view of the capital issue... but I have a view of a dumpster and a parking lot... and it went up??!

Since my mind set has changed and I opt to live in central city I expect anything and everything to happen around me - particularly in one of the fastest growing cities in the america. Change will happen, It must happen and I expect it will. World and life are always in constant change... so are our zoning laws

MichaelB · #16 Posted **Sep 22, 2007, 1:03 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATXboom

Good point Michael... depends so much on the Epoch or time and of course the individual.

I grew up in typical single family residence suburbia... I have lived almost the past 10 years - not in suburbia but single family residential neighborhoods. I did not want a business or multifamily place near me, let alone visible to me.

The past 2 years I thought about the greater good of mother earth and community and left all my baggage in "suburbia"... I bought a home next to a 2 story multi-family place and have condos going in around me... there were business a block away... I would never have made such a radical leap for me... but I did and I'll never go back. Convenience is awesome... socially its awesome. Loved it.

I recently bought a single family place in town with lower Burnet in view [lots of business and not the prettiest... condos are going in 1 house down and there is a large multi family place across the street.

I'm not answering your question very directly but I would be very upset at these things a few years back. I want infill and ubanization to bloom around me. I live in central city and I expect this to happen... if it doesn't then something is wrong with the local economy...

Oddly enough with all these various zoned developments going around me my property value goes up even more... not the same as a view of the capital issue... but I have a view of a dumpster and a parking lot... and it went up??!

Since my mind set has changed and I opt to live in central city I expect anything and everything to happen around me - particularly in one of the fastest growing cities in the america. Change will happen, It must happen and I expect it will. World and life are always in constant change... so are our zoning laws

I get it and I don't disagree. I too have progressively moved into more dense housing situations. I just think that we have to consider a greater good that includes the respect for individuals. (I know that is easy to say... and I am not trying to take a highroad) I've become aware that so many folks in this community speak without considering what they would say if these issues affected them.... speak wihtout considering the community. I personally am checking off the views of the hills I am loosing day by day. Crane by crane. I expected that to happen and knew it would. It also means that my neighborhood is getting more interesting. But, at some point, we all have to know what the risk is of an investment. Part of that is determined by zoning and some laws. Do we really want to feel that our situation can be outmanuvered by a developer? Not me.

While I am in favor of re-examing the view corridors I had to stop and realize I was having a bit of a "mines safe" and didn't think twice about who would be affected in the same way I would be. I have had to re-examine my point of "view" (sorry) when I was called out on this subject by a friend. And I had to stop and think about it. I am always wanting a community that actually acts like a community and I was the next one just saving my own ass. Mama always told me the only view you can count on is the one accross the street. Well, that said, we should be able to count on somethings. And I think there needs to be a bit more empathy for the individuals that are being affected. Part of what I am trying to find is a voice that asks folks to understand the potential personal effect some opionions could have. Again, more folks would take pause if a highway was announced thru their living room..... and there was nothing they could do about it. I hope more folks who do not live in highrises or in the central core of the city will stop and think about how they would want to be considered. Not just see it as someone elses problem. I appreciate you responses on the forum. They are thughtful and non-judegmental. It makes it easier to have a productive discussion. M

KevinFromTexas · #17 Posted **Sep 22, 2007, 5:33 AM**

I'm not familiar with how nice some of those building units are in the older buildings, Cambridge Towers, Westgate Tower, etc. Those properties sure do rely a lot on their location, (proximity to the Capitol) and views of it. So even if those properties are top notch as far as furnishings and amenities go, they still heavily rely on the views of the dome as a selling point. So at least the building managers/owners of those buildings hold the Capitol views to some significant level. They advertise the views all the time. Imagine if they were blocked not being able to do that anymore. First, that would be a huge slam to their prestige, which in turn would make the units sell for less than they did when they were purchased.

I do see Michael's point. He's talking less about a personal view being taken away (not just an elitist whining about the Capitol view going away), and more about property values going down. The next sentence out of some people's mouths would be "Well move, if you love the view so much. Get another place." Well, that would be great, but imagine losing some dollars that were invested on a home possibly after a number of years of living there. I'm not sure how old you are Michael, or how long you've lived there, but homes are big purchases. This isn't so much an issue of a real estate shark being angry that he'll lose rather than gain capital (fun pun), but more about a person having set down and planned it out what they could afford, where they wanted to live and why and then suddenly having a big chunk of that reason go away.

Our house backs up to a school with some woods and a field. The sunsets are quite nice. I wouldn't call it a full blown amenity, but it's definitely nice having that field and woods back there rather than having to look at someone's ugly backyard and having their dog bark at me and kids staring through the fence. My family has lived in this neighborhood since the 60s, in this very house, so it's hard for me to imagine those woods and that field going away. It probably never will, at least not for a long time maybe if commercial property values dictate it, but it's been in the back of my mind.

MichaelB · #18 Posted **Sep 22, 2007, 6:36 AM**

Thanks Kevin for actually addressing the only point I have been trying to make. Which is.... how would you feel if it was you.... and would it make you be a little less quick to rush to judgement about the Cap View cooridor.
And thank you for realizing I am not talking about me. Like I said, I felt selfish when It was pointed out to me that I was overlooking the point because my view is not an issue. (It ain;t goin' nowhere..I did my home work to see if the premium was worth it) It has made me feel less willing to put most of them on the chopping block.

BTW: I have been in Cambridge 6 years. Like many folks. we only got our place because the little old lady who lived here got moved to a nusing home. She had been here since the 60's. That is the story with many of the "old timers" who live here still. It was the first residential Highrise in Austin and all the folks who were city dwellers moved in and never moved out. Needless to say it is going thru a large population shift these days. If you want a peak of a varity of places there is an open house on Sat and Sunday of three places in the building bet 1 and 3. There will signs in the lobby I am sure. If you go, give me a buzz(private me) and I will show you around.

And last info. When we bought all of 6 years ago... it really was my fav place downtown. I personally love the mid-century architectureof the building.... it's not for everyone... but it is for me. Amazing how things have changed is 6 years!