Gatineau-Ottawa Executive Airport (YND/CYND)

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Here's a harebrained idea I've been coming up with, so bear with me...

I've come to have something of a "vision" with regards to Gatineau's airport. That airport could become a "secondary" airport and hub for these allegedly cheap airliners. As if often seen in many parts of Europe, the discount airlines often attempt to use lesser-known airports in order to provide their deals.

Perhaps even Porter and WestJet can be encouraged to offer lower fares if they operate some flights from this location. In fact, Porter considers Ottawa to be a "focus city" so they might show the greatest interest. Even WestJet's new gamble, Swoop, could be enticed.

There is plenty of space around the runway, and the runway itself could be expanded. There's plenty of room for a new taxiway and terminal building to the west or east of the current one, meaning current operations at the airport would face minimal disturbances.

There's a major highway nearby and with the future Kettle Island bridge, connectivity to the airport is made even better. STO future transit plans lead close to the area, and no doubt shuttle services from downtown will also improve ease of getting to the airport.

Granted, I don't expect this to happen any time soon (if ever), but it was just a thought I had. I'd love to know yours.

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

Here's a harebrained idea I've been coming up with, so bear with me...

I've come to have something of a "vision" with regards to Gatineau's airport. That airport could become a "secondary" airport and hub for these allegedly cheap airliners. As if often seen in many parts of Europe, the discount airlines often attempt to use lesser-known airports in order to provide their deals.

Perhaps even Porter and WestJet can be encouraged to offer lower fares if they operate some flights from this location. In fact, Porter considers Ottawa to be a "focus city" so they might show the greatest interest. Even WestJet's new gamble, Swoop, could be enticed.

There is plenty of space around the runway, and the runway itself could be expanded. There's plenty of room for a new taxiway and terminal building to the west or east of the current one, meaning current operations at the airport would face minimal disturbances.

There's a major highway nearby and with the future Kettle Island bridge, connectivity to the airport is made even better. STO future transit plans lead close to the area, and no doubt shuttle services from downtown will also improve ease of getting to the airport.

Granted, I don't expect this to happen any time soon (if ever), but it was just a thought I had. I'd love to know yours.

Interesting ideas. Though I see some issues. Porter would have to move all their ops to Gatineau. That alone is doable, though it would rule out any future alliance or code-share with other airlines, particularly US airlines. And if Porter were to ever go beyond the Q400, such as C-Series, being at Gatineau would limit other options for them.

I'm not sure WestJet/Swoop would be feasible. Though they will treat the two entities as separate, there will be opportunities for connections from one to the other. WestJet being at YOW and Swoop at Gatineau wouldn't really work well. WestJet has just signed up with Delta for more integration, so there's a hurdle there as well.

I could see Sunwing and Transat making a go of it at Gatineau as their flights are pretty much all O&D. Perhaps a European carrier such as Icelandair? Or Ryanair - if they ever decide to fly transatlantic. All of that, though, is seasonal.

Let's say Sunwing/Transat went for Gatineau. What happens in the event there are diversions from YYZ or YUL, would they divert to Gatineau where they have some type of station presence, or YOW with no presence? We are all aware of the problems Transat ran into lately with regards to diversions.

You're optimistic about Kettle Island Bridge. I think that ship has sailed. That said, I think there is a role for Gatineau in commercial aviation. Finding and convincing niche airlines would be tricky.

[Truenorth00]

Ottawa's airport (the field at least) is oversized for the amount of traffic it gets. There's no need to split commercial traffic with another airport. And if/when HFR happens, you'll see a further reduction in air traffic to Ottawa, as airlines cut back on hub feeder flights to/from Toronto and Montreal.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Ottawa's airport (the field at least) is oversized for the amount of traffic it gets. There's no need to split commercial traffic with another airport. And if/when HFR happens, you'll see a further reduction in air traffic to Ottawa, as airlines cut back on hub feeder flights to/from Toronto and Montreal.

HFR is more likely to hurt Porter more than AC and WS as a large percentage of their travellers are connecting rather than using Toronto as a destination.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

Here's a harebrained idea I've been coming up with, so bear with me...

I've come to have something of a "vision" with regards to Gatineau's airport. That airport could become a "secondary" airport and hub for these allegedly cheap airliners. As if often seen in many parts of Europe, the discount airlines often attempt to use lesser-known airports in order to provide their deals.

Perhaps even Porter and WestJet can be encouraged to offer lower fares if they operate some flights from this location. In fact, Porter considers Ottawa to be a "focus city" so they might show the greatest interest. Even WestJet's new gamble, Swoop, could be enticed.

There is plenty of space around the runway, and the runway itself could be expanded. There's plenty of room for a new taxiway and terminal building to the west or east of the current one, meaning current operations at the airport would face minimal disturbances.

There's a major highway nearby and with the future Kettle Island bridge, connectivity to the airport is made even better. STO future transit plans lead close to the area, and no doubt shuttle services from downtown will also improve ease of getting to the airport.

Granted, I don't expect this to happen any time soon (if ever), but it was just a thought I had. I'd love to know yours.

What is the problem you're trying to solve?

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by acottawa

What is the problem you're trying to solve?

No problem, just a passing thought I had about the Gatineau airport.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by acottawa

What is the problem you're trying to solve?

The only problem I see is the Ottawa airport charging the airlines too much, so added competition might bring their rates down. It probably wouldn't last long though as there really isn't enough demand for two commercial airports.

[J.OT13]

The Gatineau airport has already been promised to Amazon

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by roger1818

HFR is more likely to hurt Porter more than AC and WS as a large percentage of their travellers are connecting rather than using Toronto as a destination.

A good 25-30% of pax going to YYZ on AC and WS are also local, at least out of all the flights I've taken to YYZ. For me personally 3/4 of the time YYZ has been my final destination.

I don't think HFR will cut YOW's traffic (i.e. I think PD are at 16-17 flights a day to YYZ 'forever'), but I do think it'll impact YOW's growth...which we all know has been so stellar these past 5 years as it is.

As for YND, if it wants anything bigger than a Dash 8, it'll need a much bigger terminal.

[JPBeau]

Just mentioning; Kettle Island bridge was cancelled and the island itself was given (or sold) to the Nature Consevatory of Canada.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by JPBeau

Just mentioning; Kettle Island bridge was cancelled and the island itself was given (or sold) to the Nature Consevatory of Canada.

Welcome to the forum !

Interesting note .... do you have a reference ? Thx.

EnJoy!

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Welcome to the forum !

Interesting note .... do you have a reference ? Thx.

EnJoy!

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/bridge+...450/story.html

https://events.natureconservancy.ca/...kettle-island/

[PHrenetic]

Good Day.

ok, good background, some of which I had missed at the time, but...

The NatureConservancy item is from 2016 (ie. relatively current), in which they themselves state that they have been protecting KI since 2007 (just prior to the whole bridge controversy). Who owns KI is not stated. (It could be assumed that they do, but that is an assumption.)

The OttawaCitizen article is from Nov.2008, coming into the height of the controversy. It states that NatureConservancy owns KI (ie. that KI is already owned by NatureConservancy prior to this article).

So, I can grant that KI ownership / has been / may have been / may be / still unclear to this point (newspaper reporters sometimes get backgrounder details askew or misinterpreted).
This then gives rise to:
- who did own KI ?
- who now owns KI ?
- what fresh info prompted JPBeau's comment, which basically states that there has been a change in ownership, and implies that it is of recent provenance ?

At the time, I (and possibly many others) had probably assumed (silly me) that the NationalCapitolCommission already owned KI, UDI, and LDI, leading them to unadmittedly (behind the shadow curtain) pre-lean to these choices above all others. But I have no foundation for this.

Hence the question - is there a reference ?

Thx.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.

ok, good background, some of which I had missed at the time, but...

The NatureConservancy item is from 2016 (ie. relatively current), in which they themselves state that they have been protecting KI since 2007 (just prior to the whole bridge controversy). Who owns KI is not stated. (It could be assumed that they do, but that is an assumption.)

The OttawaCitizen article is from Nov.2008, coming into the height of the controversy. It states that NatureConservancy owns KI (ie. that KI is already owned by NatureConservancy prior to this article).

So, I can grant that KI ownership / has been / may have been / may be / still unclear to this point (newspaper reporters sometimes get backgrounder details askew or misinterpreted).
This then gives rise to:
- who did own KI ?
- who now owns KI ?
- what fresh info prompted JPBeau's comment, which basically states that there has been a change in ownership, and implies that it is of recent provenance ?

At the time, I (and possibly many others) had probably assumed (silly me) that the NationalCapitolCommission already owned KI, UDI, and LDI, leading them to unadmittedly (behind the shadow curtain) pre-lean to these choices above all others. But I have no foundation for this.

Hence the question - is there a reference ?

Thx.

The Nature Coversency itself says it is "private land"

https://events.natureconservancy.ca/...kettle-island/

[rocketphish]

A little more digging turned up these historical references:

http://www.historymuseum.ca/cmc/exhi...rw_91_ie.shtml

http://affairesmaritimes.existasia.c...le-island.html

"Today, the island belongs to less than twenty owners including the Avenor company that owns approximately 90% of its area." **

** I don't know when "today" is/was.

[PHrenetic]

My point, exactly.

Hence, back to JPBeau - can you please supply a reference, and a time frame, for your comment ?

Thx.

[rocketphish]

Aha!

INVENTAIRE ARCHÉOLOGIQUE À L’ÎLE KETTLE
BiFw-97

Rapport présenté auMinistère de la Culture, des Communications et de la Condition féminine du Québec.

Présenté par : André Miller

Octobre 2008

En 2007, la papetière Bowater a légué l’Île Kettle à la Société canadienne pour la conservation de la nature (Nature Conservancy of Canada), qui en fera une aire protégée.

Le ministère du Développement durable, de l’Environnement et des Parcs du Québec, en a fait l’annonce officielle en 2007. Bowater a donc donné un terrain de 200 hectares (494 acres) qui représente la presque totalité (90 %) du territoire de cette île située au milieu de la rivière des Outaouais.

Malgré le fait que Bowater ait donné le terrain, le gouvernement du Québec a versé un montant substantiel à la Société canadienne pour la conservation de la nature. Cet argent servira à défrayer les frais légaux, les frais d’arpentage, les frais d’évaluation du terrain et d’autres dépenses comme les droits de mutation.

https://www.academia.edu/3635972/Inv...ttle_-_BiFw-97

[PHrenetic]

Ok...cool.

So.... Avenor = Bowater somewhere along the line, and Bowater donated to NatureConservancy. Quebec Gov't funded the transfer and initial expenses.

and so.... the purpose of JPBeau's comment ?

JPBeau ?

Thx, rocketphish.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Ok...cool.

So.... Avenor = Bowater somewhere along the line, and Bowater donated to NatureConservancy. Quebec Gov't funded the transfer and initial expenses.

and so.... the purpose of JPBeau's comment ?


.

That he lives in that newish suburban-style neighbourhood just south of Montfort and he really, really, really doesn't want a bridge at Kettle Island?

[rocketphish]

Just to round out this investigation:

"Bowater Inc., headquartered in Greenville, South Carolina. The company acquired additional Canadian interests in the late 1990s, when they bought Avenor (formerly Canadian Pacific Forest Products)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowater