VIA Rail network developments

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I agree, while ripping up all the rail infrastructure downtown was probably a bad idea, trying to put it back would entail enormous cost because it would be mostly underground (I can't imagine getting agreement to tear up Colonel By, Nicholas and the grass). Terminal stations cause all sort of problems (particularly in North America where they are not designed for bidirectional travel) and given the speed heavy rail trains go as they approach stations, I can't image train getting downtown faster than an LRT vehicle.

I figure that it would cost about half a Scarborough subway
The way that I see it, it would entail a new crossing of the Rideau river then a rail trench covered by the Nicolas Expressway, not unlike the option currently being pursued for Phase 2 under the Ottawa River Parkway. Past Laurier, you could bore a station under Union. It's a big project, but I don't see it being a tremendously difficult one.

As for having a terminus station, this is something which was possible in Ottawa in 1965 and is still done for passenger trains in Halifax, Vancouver, Toronto and both of Montreal's stations (albeit poorly in the case of Station Centrale).

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by daud

This would be such a welcome service from my standpoint and sorely needed from Via's business position. Currently I drive to Toronto for business because I usually need to go with less than 2 weeks notice and while there are 50+ flights a day, they are all over $500 with the short notice. I prefer the train but have constantly opted to drive because driving is faster. Also, hoping on a train to Montreal with a 1 hr 20 minute ride makes a day trip even easier-almost providing a "regional" type service.

Something I really wish via would add is late evening trains between Ottawa and Montreal. Departing somewhere around 11 PM. That would actually enable you to go attend things in Montreal without the expense of staying the night.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I figure that it would cost about half a Scarborough subway
The way that I see it, it would entail a new crossing of the Rideau river then a rail trench covered by the Nicolas Expressway, not unlike the option currently being pursued for Phase 2 under the Ottawa River Parkway. Past Laurier, you could bore a station under Union. It's a big project, but I don't see it being a tremendously difficult one.

As for having a terminus station, this is something which was possible in Ottawa in 1965 and is still done for passenger trains in Halifax, Vancouver, Toronto and both of Montreal's stations (albeit poorly in the case of Station Centrale).

Boring a station under an existing building can be done (Stuttgart and Bologna come to mind) but those projects are tremendously difficult.

Ottawa was never a terminal station (tracks continued over the Alexandria bridge). While terminal stations are possible they are a huge pain in the ass - trains waste time driving in and backing out before they can continue on their way.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Furthermore, the current train station is highly accessible by transit, about to become more so. It's not a huge burden. Also, its presence just southeast of downtown could help kickstart urbanization of that area.

It's about to become less so, really: more people will have to transfer to or from their LRT trip to the station, as compared to the current Transitway.

I'm on Team-Bring-Intercity-Rail-Back-Downtown-(Somehow)

Not sure where or how, yet.

I know that glass and steel contraption out in Alta Vista has its architectural fans, but I'm not one of them.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

How would parking be improved by using Union Station downtown? The transit connection would not be much better downtown compared to the current station. For rail service, the current location makes much more sense because it is a through station and not a stub station requiring back up moves. In Avignon and Lyon all TGV's stop at suburban stations and not at the downtown stations. The main benefit of using Union Station is that there are several hotels within walking distance from the station.

Or within tunnel distance, in one case.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I agree, while ripping up all the rail infrastructure downtown was probably a bad idea, trying to put it back would entail enormous cost because it would be mostly underground (I can't imagine getting agreement to tear up Colonel By, Nicholas and the grass). Terminal stations cause all sort of problems (particularly in North America where they are not designed for bidirectional travel) and given the speed heavy rail trains go as they approach stations, I can't image train getting downtown faster than an LRT vehicle.

Won't someone think of the Nationally Significant Grass For All Canadians?

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Ottawa was never a terminal station (tracks continued over the Alexandria bridge). While terminal stations are possible they are a huge pain in the ass - trains waste time driving in and backing out before they can continue on their way.

No... Only two tracks continued through. All the rest terminated.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Boring a station under an existing building can be done (Stuttgart and Bologna come to mind) but those projects are tremendously difficult.

Ottawa was never a terminal station (tracks continued over the Alexandria bridge). While terminal stations are possible they are a huge pain in the ass - trains waste time driving in and backing out before they can continue on their way.

Zürich HB is a large, very busy, terminal station at ground level, with through tracks underground, in a city with one third the population of Ottawa. Mind you the Swiss do trains like nobody's business.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Zürich HB is a large, very busy, terminal station at ground level, with through tracks underground, in a city with one third the population of Ottawa. Mind you the Swiss do trains like nobody's business.

Yes, they spent an enormous amount of money to make a terminal station into a through station, because of the problems of terminal stations.

Also, Zurich has 1.4 million people and a gdp the size of Hungary so probably easier to come up with cash for mega projects

[eternallyme]

I can see one mostly surface routing that would work for a rail connection to Union Station:

* Colonel By Drive would need to be closed between Daly Avenue and Main Street, in order to allow the tracks in position.
* The pedestrian pathway would be maintained throughout
* The trains (likely 2 tracks, widening to 4 tracks at the station to accommodate commuter trains) would run in the Colonel By Drive ROW
* The trains would enter a tunnel below the Nicholas-417 interchange, below the Rideau River and rising again in the Hurdman lands, and reconnect with the existing line at Lycee Claudel (the school would need to be expropriated, but a relocation would be made nearby) - tracks split with one track going west and one going east
* Straightening at the once again dormant Ottawa Station may be possible as that station would be decommissioned
* Commuter trains would also share the same routing

[YOWflier]

For the speed curious, I'm on a via train as we speak and the max speed clocked using my phone is 153 kph. Average is currently about 110.

[Aylmer]

Using my phone, I once measured 202km/h for a short stretch somewhere between Vaudreuil and the border. It might have been an error since I've not known VIA trains to even be able to attain that speed at all.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

For the speed curious, I'm on a via train as we speak and the max speed clocked using my phone is 153 kph. Average is currently about 110.

On the Ottawa-Kingston route they generally max out in the low 160s on the best sections at times. It does seem to depend on the trip though. Some trips I've never seen anything higher than 150, others I see as high as 165 as the max.

VIA's main issue is that on the Kingston Subdivision (the main line track from Toronto to Montreal), if there's a CN train ahead of them, they can't go faster than it (otherwise they catch up and collide!) and freight trains generally go around 100-120. Some parts of this line have triple track segments. On these, VIA trains typically do 150+. There's an extended section of triple track around Kingston/Gananoque that is where VIA hits its best speeds. A few kilometres east of Kingston, there's a section where the tracks run parallel to the 401, close enough that you can easily see all the cars on the highway out the window... and the trains are clearly going faster.

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Using my phone, I once measured 202km/h for a short stretch somewhere between Vaudreuil and the border. It might have been an error since I've not known VIA trains to even be able to attain that speed at all.

That has to be inaccurate. Not only is VIA's equipment not capable of attaining that speed, no track anywhere in Canada has a civil speed limit that high.

[YOWflier]

163 is my new clocked max, somewhere between Maxville and Casselman as we approach Ottawa.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

163 is my new clocked max, somewhere between Maxville and Casselman as we approach Ottawa.

If that clocked speed could be maintained for the whole journey between Montreal - Ottawa and Toronto then we would be getting in the area of high speed rail. Electrification would allow the leap to true high speed rail take place. The main issues are level crossings, rail congestion and curves. If you solve these a bit at a time you end up with high speed rail in the mid term. All that is required is consistent funding of improvements year after year until the job is done.

[lrt's friend]

Yes, incremental improvements are probably the way to go. I was on a train between Prague and Berlin in April and there was a section of track between Dresden and Berlin when the train was running at a very fast speed. Other parts, we were probably travelling no faster than a VIA train, if even that.

[J.OT13]

Happy to see this, even if it's not a full blown high speed train. Still doesn't solve the issue of having a train station 5 km outside downtown. Of course they would have to add a billion+ to solve this.

[c_speed3108]

Boom. High level platforms, Renaissance cars and all. Happy Election!

From http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?...=2&nid=1013689

VIA Rail's Federal Infrastructure Initiative
As part of the $5.8 billion in infrastructure spending announced by Prime Minister Harper, $102 million new funding will go to VIA Rail for several projects to improve the safety and efficiency of the Ottawa-Montreal corridor.The investment will be made over two fiscal years (2015-16 and 2016-17). Projects to be funded include:

-Enable the Renaissance car fleet for use on the Ottawa-Montreal line and thus, provide customers with a consistent level of service west of Montreal while replacing older equipment. This fleet will also enhance the accessibility service for travelers in wheelchairs and/or with service animals‎.
-Upgrade tracks and bridges between Montreal and the Ottawa area.
-Build new track siding and make changes to the turnout to allow more fluid movement of trains in the Barrhaven area (Ottawa).
-Repair Alexandria piers and abutments to avoid the risk of compromising the structural capacity of the bridge and to ensure the safe passage of freight and passenger trains.
-Upgrade centralized traffic control signals to improve the efficiency and safety of operations.
-Upgrade signal systems to improve reliability, efficiency and safety of operations.
-Repair Ottawa Station infrastructure (main electrical power supply and distribution), and build high level platforms to improve customer safety, travel experience, and accessibility, as well as eliminate some delays.
-Repair rail bridges in the Ottawa area.
-Replace culverts between Ottawa and Montreal to ensure structural integrity.
-Change/upgrade mechanical & electrical systems at the Ottawa Station to safely keep the trains ready to go without having to run a generator.
-Replace bolted rail with continuous welded rail in the Beachburg, Alexandria and Smith Falls subdivisions and other track upgrades within the city limits of Ottawa.
July 2015

More trains too

“Thanks to this new funding, VIA Rail will be able to provide a safer, more reliable and comfortable service between Ottawa and Montreal through upgraded infrastructure and enhanced facilities at our Ottawa station. In addition, we are pleased to be able to add four frequencies (2 return trips) between the two cities in 2017 as a result of the Government of Canada’s investment.”

Yves Desjardins-Siciliano
President and Chief Executive Officer, VIA Rail Canada

[1overcosc]

Finally! After all the time and money VIA has invested in the Toronto-Ottawa line in the past few years (new sidings, speed upgrades, third track in key spots, near-doubling of train frequencies, etc.), it's about time the Ottawa-Montreal service got some love.

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Finally! After all the time and money VIA has invested in the Toronto-Ottawa line in the past few years (new sidings, speed upgrades, third track in key spots, near-doubling of train frequencies, etc.), it's about time the Ottawa-Montreal service got some love.

It is good that they are getting this done, since the big upgrade they are trying to get investors to fund is largely on the Ottawa-Toronto segment.