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  #41  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2016, 7:40 PM
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^ Although, I'm not even that mad as I'm very pro-development.
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  #42  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2016, 7:57 PM
ChargerCarl ChargerCarl is offline
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Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
no more so than hudson-bergen and better than doing nothing.

if it even happens.

i'd rather have triboro rx, but no developers or anyone important cares about that idea.
Doing nothing would absolutely be better. This is just pissing away taxpayer money.
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  #43  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2016, 12:10 AM
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^But the backers clearly believe that it will generate an equal amount and then some of economic development, i.e. tax base, i.e. "taxpayer money" therefore ending up a net positive.
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  #44  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2016, 3:34 PM
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Originally Posted by CIA View Post
A shame transit planning in the region now revolves around using public dollars to increase land values for development. Redevelopment potential is but one factor of many when deciding where to place routes, but now it seems it trumps all other considerations. The Hudson-Bergen light rail line in Jersey was originally planned for Kennedy Blvd, but was moved to hug the waterfront for redevelopment. Looks like the the Brooklyn-Queens streetcar will be following the same playbook: screw you existing middle class residents, new transit lines are for developer's bottom line ($$$).

yeah, supposedly its to be the catalyst of 10x its cost in economic activity ($2.5B to build and then generate $25B). sort of like hudson-bergen, which is the practical model, but maybe more like the highline in their minds. however, like the highline, its not clear what development would happen anyway with or without it.

i see they use that it could also impact 13 nycha pj developments with 40k residents, for example, which is true, but otoh they also seem to be reluctant to tie rides into mta transfers. if they don't do that it will mostly be a separate line for the wealthier newbies.

and then the deblasio administration said it believes the light rail system’s $2.5 billion cost, "can be offset by tax revenue siphoned from an expected rise in property values along the route" and maybe with developers pitching in for various things like stations and advertising or the like. i dk about that, it would need to be pinned down.

and lastly of course no doubt everyone is very dubious about that construction cost estimate not ballooning away like crazy too.
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  #45  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2016, 2:20 PM
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TRANSIT

Brooklyn Queens Connector streetcar proposal has community support, poll shows

By Vincent Barone vin.barone@amny.com September 8, 2016


Residents living along the proposed Brooklyn Queens Connector route are resoundingly in favor of the streetcar plan, according to a new poll from the project’s support group.

The poll, published Thursday from the Friends of the BQX, found that 74% of residents living near the route support the building of Mayor Bill de Blasio’s $2.5 billion streetcar, which would connect Sunset Park, Brooklyn, to Astoria, Queens, along the borough’s winding waterfront. Just 16% voted against the proposal.

“The poll results really reaffirms what the Friends of the BQX and supporters have said all along,” said Ya-Ting Liu, executive director of the Friends group, “which is that there is a need for greater transit access along the waterfront and that the BQX serves as a connective tissue to provide residents greater mobility and also greater access to jobs.”

Public relations firm Global Strategies group conducted the poll, which surveyed 701 residents via telephone, including 147 people living at nearby NYCHA complexes. The firm broke down voting by City Council district. Astoria and Sunset Park districts both featured the highest level of support. Each tallied 79% pro-streetcar votes. Residents in Long Island City were least enthused, though 63% still voted in favor of the project.

While the mayor envisions the streetcar as a vital link for developing neighborhoods in a “transit dessert,” detractors have been concerned with the route, which is located in flood-prone areas and without a clear dedicated right of way, as well as the mode itself and if a streetcar is the best way to move people through the corridor.

Steven Strauss, a professor at Princeton’s Woodrow Wilson school of public and international affairs, said he saw need to bring better transit to the area, but questioned the long-term viability of a streetcar, which is anticipated to launch service in 2024.

“Is the BQX going to be obsolete by then and should the city be exploring options more around technology and digitally-enabled transportation?” said Strauss, who’d like to see the city explore partnerships with private transit services, like Uber and Lyft, to bolster mass transit, as other cities have recently. “It will probably take 30 to 40 years pay off the streetcar. Is this actually going to be economically viable in 30 to 40 years?”


http://www.amny.com/transit/brooklyn...ows-1.12288402
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  #46  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2016, 8:55 AM
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Nostrand/Utica Av light rail should be built using LA model.
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  #47  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2016, 3:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mrsmartman View Post
Nostrand/Utica Av light rail should be built using LA model.
What is the "LA model"?
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  #48  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2016, 7:05 PM
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What is the "LA model"?
Mostly grade separated on old unused ROWs.

It won't work in NYC.
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  #49  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2016, 1:35 AM
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^ why won't it work? the facts are, it worked for 100 years, why do you think the old baseball team was called the brooklyn dodgers?
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  #50  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2016, 1:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
^ why won't it work? the facts are, it worked for 100 years, why do you think the old baseball team was called the brooklyn dodgers?
yeah, and theres a reason both LA and Brooklyn's streetcars died out a long time ago...

Mixed traffic streetcars suck.
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  #51  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2016, 2:19 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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yeah, and theres a reason both LA and Brooklyn's streetcars died out a long time ago...

Mixed traffic streetcars suck.


^ yes, there is a reason rail transit "died out a long time ago" in america. its known as the great american streetcar scandal or the rail transit holocaust. perhaps you might educate yourself about it:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/633585
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  #52  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2016, 8:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
^ yes, there is a reason rail transit "died out a long time ago" in america. its known as the great american streetcar scandal or the rail transit holocaust. perhaps you might educate yourself about it:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/633585
You're completely dodging the point that mixed traffic streetcars are a crappy transit option. It has nothing to do with "transit dying out a long time ago."
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  #53  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2016, 4:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ChargerCarl View Post
You're completely dodging the point that mixed traffic streetcars are a crappy transit option. It has nothing to do with "transit dying out a long time ago."
That is actually electric bus on steroid.
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  #54  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2016, 5:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
^ yes, there is a reason rail transit "died out a long time ago" in america. its known as the great american streetcar scandal or the rail transit holocaust. perhaps you might educate yourself about it:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/633585
This Roger Rabbit nonsense has been thoroughly debunked.

A) Any conspiracy, if there was one, was designed to shift transit systems over from streetcars to buses. "Switching to buses" is VERY different from "killing transit systems".

B) Most of the systems that were bought up were bankrupt in the first place, because they were built as part of real estate development Ponzi schemes while fares were set by law at $0.05. Once cities stopped sprawling during the Depression and houses stopped going up, there was no money to keep the streetcar systems maintained, and companies were prohibited from raising fares by city governments. Hence, bankruptcy. Bus manufacturers were the only players able to bail them out.

C) Streetcars in mixed traffic were fine when they were originally built, but as traffic on roads grew, they were hamstrung by the fixed rails they had to follow. Obstruction on the tracks? A bus can go around a blockage, but the streetcar has to just wait until it clears.

Modern light-rail systems are great, but they are a world apart from the old streetcars. Go to New Orleans and ride an old-school streetcar. It's cute and quaint if you're on vacation, but if you're actually trying to get to a job or an appointment, you will wish for a bus. The ride is no less jerky than a bus, maybe moreso, and the DC electric motors can be earsplitting.
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Last edited by ardecila; Sep 15, 2016 at 6:03 PM.
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  #55  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2016, 7:00 PM
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I would like to add that if the new streetcar causes significant congestion in specific locales along the proposed corridor, it could be grade separated later. A short tunnel or viaduct section strategically placed wouldn't cost too much more than an entirely at grade line. The key being keeping this extra expense sections as short as possible. The entire line surely doesn't need to be elevated or underground to be a viable transportation choice.
Too many of us think all or nothing with these transit and highway proposals, when in reality a little of this and that will do.
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  #56  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2016, 8:21 PM
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You don't have to built elevated sections or tunnel to have "segregated" tram lines.

Here apart on intersections, tram is separated of the traffic.

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  #57  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 12:21 PM
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It is more desirable to build the streetcar route along Manhattan waterfront, in my opinion.
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  #58  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 3:11 PM
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsmartman View Post
It is more desirable to build the streetcar route along Manhattan waterfront, in my opinion.
Fine, build a streetcar line there too, for both Manhattan waterfronts.
But I don't think it is safe to place a streetcar line in freeway lanes, the speed differential is much to large.
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  #59  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2016, 5:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
...and the DC electric motors can be earsplitting.
Hey watch it now!

For me it's:

1. Chopin Nocturne Opus 9 No. 2

2. The whine of an old traction motor

And I doubt I'm the only one
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  #60  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2016, 2:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Minato Ku View Post
You don't have to built elevated sections or tunnel to have "segregated" tram lines.

Here apart on intersections, tram is separated of the traffic.

Very beautiful. Where is that pic taken?
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