Ugly Canada 2 (Only architecture, planning and design faux pas)

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Most would have appealed to the tastes of the time, one assumes, or they would not have been built.

Well most suburban architecture today appeals to 'the tastes of the time' so does that make it not ugly? I mean would architects or people from actual Victorian era cities have viewed it as a clumsy imitation?

[TownGuy]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

There's literally no yard at all. From the air I assumed this would be hideous at street level but actually the quality of houses and materials and the trees on the street make this much nicer than the Calgary suburbs I posted before. I'm envious of all the brick used on homes out east. Here it's all stucco and vinyl shit.

Some do have yards, more of a side yard. I measured this one to be roughly 110×40 of sideyard.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/CfAxcJthNfWL5VV28

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Well most suburban architecture today appeals to 'the tastes of the time' so does that make it not ugly? I mean would architects or people from actual Victorian era cities have viewed it as a clumsy imitation?

No idea, but I assume that only a small minority of people purchase homes that they consider to be "ugly". I know I wouldn't.

[megadude]

Most people don't have as refined taste in architecture as we do. I think they want what appears to be a solid home that fits in their price range.

The pre 2017 Honda CRVs really stand out to me as having ugly back ends. I'm considering a 2015 or 2016 but it's so hard for me to get past that, especially when contrasting that design to the newer model, which is gorgeous. But I have a certain price range in mind. I might have to get the RAV4 of the generation because I think it looks better but on the outside but the inside isn't as nice.

I also can't have a vehicle with hub caps. I can't walk out of my house every day and look at that plastic covering my wheels.

Most people I'd say don't think like us on this forum. I think we all here would want some curb appeal if owning a home, while I think the average person just accepts a house as long as it's not butt ugly. There are plenty of ugly mansard roofed townhouse complexes out there that I look at and say NO WAY would I live there. But most people will take price into consideration before looks. And even then, they consider a mansard townhouse as an average house as opposed to well below average like we might view them.

I would avoid both homes you pointed out, especially the second, unless it was such a steep discount that I could renovate exterior.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by megadude

Most people don't have as refined taste in architecture as we do. I think they want what appears to be a solid home that fits in their price range.

The pre 2017 Honda CRVs really stand out to me as having ugly back ends. I'm considering a 2015 or 2016 but it's so hard for me to get past that, especially when contrasting that design to the newer model, which is gorgeous. But I have a certain price range in mind. I might have to get the RAV4 of the generation because I think it looks better but on the outside but the inside isn't as nice.

I also can't have a vehicle with hub caps. I can't walk out of my house every day and look at that plastic covering my wheels.

Most people I'd say don't think like us on this forum. I think we all here would want some curb appeal if owning a home, while I think the average person just accepts a house as long as it's not butt ugly. There are plenty of ugly mansard roofed townhouse complexes out there that I look at and say NO WAY would I live there. But most people will take price into consideration before looks. And even then, they consider a mansard townhouse as an average house as opposed to well below average like we might view them.

I would avoid both homes you pointed out, especially the second, unless it was such a steep discount that I could renovate exterior.

I don't consider my suburban house ugly but I guess some on here would deride it as a McMansion of sorts. None of the symmetry is out of whack though and the look is fairly classic.

A few friends of mine have snout houses where you can't see the front door or much of a ground-floor window from the street. At times I've derided snout houses without thinking that that's what they live in, and they've responded that what's most important to them is the space inside, as that's where you spend all of your time. (And also the backyard to some degree, although theirs were teeny-tiny.)

I gather that curb appeal doesn't matter that much for a lot of people.

[OldDartmouthMark]

...Location, location, location...

[TownGuy]

I never really thought of snout houses as ugly until I joined this forum. Obviously some are worse than others but I still don't mind them per se, as I mentioned, I live in one!

[SkahHigh]

Behold... Montreal's East End:

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.6951...7i16384!8i8192

[Denscity]

Brick always gives the impression of being in eastern north america.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by SkahHigh

Behold... Montreal's East End:

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.6951...7i16384!8i8192

Just ... wow!

[Innsertnamehere]

I’m no fan of snout houses but would happily buy one if it delivered on the right location. I want some basics in terms of location, house size and finish before I can start being picky on exact architectural details.

The problem is that most snout houses are in middle of nowhere locations and aren’t any cheaper than alternatives. That’s what makes you question them.

[GlassCity]

I had a suburban developer express his frustrations to me once about how little people care about the exterior of their homes. In developing new greenfields they would write some set of urban design guidelines and encourage people to spring for higher quality external finishings, but the vast majority of people don't go for it he said. This isn't a cheap thing either as internal upgrades were common. The general view seems to be that the interior is for the homeowners while the exterior is for others, and who cares what they think?

So yeah, I think there are plenty of people who live in houses they don't think look that great but who also just don't really care because they're functional and have all the other amenities/location they actually care about.

[DrJoe]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I had a suburban developer express his frustrations to me once about how little people care about the exterior of their homes. In developing new greenfields they would write some set of urban design guidelines and encourage people to spring for higher quality external finishings, but the vast majority of people don't go for it he said. This isn't a cheap thing either as internal upgrades were common. The general view seems to be that the interior is for the homeowners while the exterior is for others, and who cares what they think?

So yeah, I think there are plenty of people who live in houses they don't think look that great but who also just don't really care because they're functional and have all the other amenities/location they actually care about.

True to a certain extent but must be extremely true in Alberta where the suburban homes are truly ugly. A snout house in Ontario is nicer looking than even a decent looking, for Alberta, house because the Ontario house still has decent exterior finishes, nicer trees and landscaping.

[kool maudit]

Sweden built a LOT of tower-in-the-park complexes, and where it couldn't quite swing the park, it rotated the buildings 45 degrees so as to break the streetwall.

I am having trouble getting real estate agents to recognize this as a dealbreaker. It is like they can't see it.

Not wanting to be as tedious as I am on here in real life, I have had to kind of dumb it down to "Vasastan, Ostermalm, Kungsholmen, or Sodermalm" -- these are the central, 19th century districts. Attempts to include "or other areas built in that fashion" have been fruitless.

But even these areas have some dogshit new developments at their fringes, complicating matters.

They ask me if it is the 19th century buildings, but while I like them, I am quite willing to accept newer structures on traditionally urban streets. They ask me if it is about subway access or even ground-floor retail, but it's not quite that.

It's NO WEIRD POSTWAR BULLSHIT! STREETS AND SQUARES ONLY!

But to them the line doesn't seem very clear, or visible at all.

Sweden is very committed to modernity in general, and that comes with Corbusier I guess.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by DrJoe

True to a certain extent but must be extremely true in Alberta where the suburban homes are truly ugly. A snout house in Ontario is nicer looking than even a decent looking, for Alberta, house because the Ontario house still has decent exterior finishes, nicer trees and landscaping.

Not to praise Ontario snout houses, but the Alberta cities truly have dismal residential vernacular. Street viewing Edmonton's Oliver made me realize where they got the (unplayably bad) default buildings for Cities Skylines.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

...Location, location, location...

Except that these guys' houses aren't really that well located. They're in the outer suburbs of major cities. Low-density auto-dependent suburbia with basically nothing walkable nearby and maybe half-hourly or hourly local bus service a few blocks away.

Snout houses were built there not in order to be able to fit new homes into an awesome location, but because the municipality wanted to apply various urbanist principles to fit SFHs onto smaller lots. And developers still insisted on giving everyone a double garage.

And it's not because of a lack of space in the immediate area. There are acres of cornfields 1 km or less from where those houses sit.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by TownGuy

I never really thought of snout houses as ugly until I joined this forum. Obviously some are worse than others but I still don't mind them per se, as I mentioned, I live in one!

In fairness the insides of my friends' houses are generally pretty nice. One of them is actually quite beautiful in fact.

I don't doubt that yours is nice as well.

I actually have a *tight* double garage on a 15 metre wide (at the street) lot, but my lot is pie-shaped widening quickly towards the back and we are also in a bend on the road and set back far enough from it, all of which allows for a wide front steps and doorway/porch and the entire width of the living room to be prominent and visible from the street.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Not to praise Ontario snout houses, but the Alberta cities truly have dismal residential vernacular. Street viewing Edmonton's Oliver made me realize where they got the (unplayably bad) default buildings for Cities Skylines.

The aridity and other generally difficult growing conditions for most trees and shrubs out there also doesn't help dull the austere character.

From Ontario to Nova Scotia things tend to be much more lush and within even a few years this tends to make even the most mundane suburban street feel a lot more inviting.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Except that these guys' houses aren't really that well located. They're in the outer suburbs of major cities. Low-density auto-dependent suburbia with basically nothing walkable nearby and maybe half-hourly or hourly local bus service a few blocks away.

Snout houses were built there not in order to be able to fit new homes into an awesome location, but because the municipality wanted to apply various urbanist principles to fit SFHs onto smaller lots. And developers still insisted on giving everyone a double garage.

And it's not because of a lack of space in the immediate area. There are acres of cornfields 1 km or less from where those houses sit.

My comment was directed more towards the idea that people didn't care so much about the exterior appearance of their homes - but to expand on the location comment, a desirable location can mean different things to different people... i.e. some of the urban attributes that you mention are actually what could prevent your friend from having the lifestyle that he/she may want.

For example, while I do enjoy being in a totally urban environment, sometimes it's just nice to be away from it, so low-density can mean that not so many people are around all the time and there can be generally quieter less-busy activity levels. Being away from bus service means no noisy, smelly buses continually passing by your house. Being very near a rural environment may allow them to escape suburbia much easier if that's their desire.

I don't know your friend's situation, obviously, but anyhow my point was simply that there can be other reasons to choose to live in a certain house than just how it looks to others.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

My comment was directed more towards the idea that people didn't care so much about the exterior appearance of their homes - but to expand on the location comment, a desirable location can mean different things to different people... i.e. some of the urban attributes that you mention are actually what could prevent your friend from having the lifestyle that he/she may want.

For example, while I do enjoy being in a totally urban environment, sometimes it's just nice to be away from it, so low-density can mean that not so many people are around all the time and there can be generally quieter less-busy activity levels. Being away from bus service means no noisy, smelly buses continually passing by your house. Being very near a rural environment may allow them to escape suburbia much easier if that's their desire.

I don't know your friend's situation, obviously, but anyhow my point was simply that there can be other reasons to choose to live in a certain house than just how it looks to others.

Agreed. For the most part, they're life-long suburbanites who wanted to raise their families in the exact same type of suburban milieu (often the exact same suburb) as the one they grew up in.

To them, the location of their house is "great".

But according to real estate market conventions, their location is only "ok" at best.