Wpg: Chief Peguis Trail Extension

[thegreattait]

Actually I know a number of East st.Paul residents that drive to Kildonan Place, park and ride on the #75 to the U of M. So it does happen?

[Biff]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

Also, my brother surmised that perhaps the reason why River East Plaza has become so run down over the years is because the landlord is planning on turning it into a power centre once the CPT opens up.

Safeway is normally a "premium" grocery chain, but the one in River East Plaza hasn't been renovated since 1968 and is missing the token Starbucks that you normally seem to find in all the other stores.

Concidence?

I have spoken with a planner at Safeway and was told the reason Safeway hasn't spent any money at this location is that Safeway only builds stand alone stores now. They are not investing any money in this location until they are able to move the alignment of the store to the back of the lot (east) along Donwood. (they already have plans drawn up). The reason they haven't yet is Zellers, for what ever reason received a sweetheart of a deal on their piece of the mall and aren't interested in investing in it. I guess we have to wait until Zellers lease is up.

...all i can say is - what a dump.

[DowntownWpg]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

Did anybody else notice that Petroskos Garden Market and Douglas Auto are both being expropriated for a Park 'n' Ride?

Douglas Auto is an eyesore, and they are perhaps the biggest rip-off artists in Winnipeg auto repair (and that's saying a lot). Good riddance!

Too bad about Petrosko Brothers Garden centre though. It's a Mom-and-Pop garden/flower store that seems to do good business, despite competing against the Rona's and Home Depots.

I suppose the senior's vegetable and flower gardens will be given the boot as well, which is between Petrosko and the bus loop. With all the sucking up to seniors that Browaty The Booze-Head (I'll expand) has done to court that vote, this community garden could derail projects such as the park-and-ride, even the Chief expansion. Note to Browaty: the symbolic Harold and Maude relationship you have courted with the elderly will all come crumbling down with a DUI or other intoxication-related charge (you have PC Manitoba friends with loose lips, and the Villa parking lot is certainly not a private retreat).

Blah, Blah, Blah...

Getting back to the Chief expansion, I grew up and lived in NK essentially my entire life, only moving to Downtown about a year ago. Have been hearing talk of expansion from the early days of former city counselor Marky-Mark Lubosch. But, apparently talk of making a route on the Douglas field has been going on in the times of Teary Duguid and Drunken D. Mitchelson (yes, alcohol has ruined an NK counselor's career before).

As Biff said, the residents should have or could have known this when they were deciding on buying their home. Echoing something along the lines of what Only The Lonely said last week, if they want to live on a nice stretch of the country, they should move to Plum Coolie.

While it's a given that people on Douglas will be up-in-arms, there really is not that many of them, so hopefully the uproar isn't great. There are no homes that I can recall on the long stretch of Douglas (between Rothesay and Raleigh).

It'd be great for NK in general, drivers, and bus routes in the northern half of Winnipeg. This may have already been mentioned, but streets such as Gilmore, McIvor, Bonner and Knowles have been (IMO) getting noticeably more and more busy the past decade, and I think it must be related to the population growth out in East St. Paul (they are using these roads to get from Lagimodiere to Henderson, then to downtown).

The incorrectly-self-perceived elitists on McIvor went so far to get Marky-Mark to put up a baracade on McIvor and Lagimodiere (to drastically reduce traffic between Gateway and Lagimodiere), and I was pleased when it came down (it was essentially North K's version of Les Misérables). Now, if I'm going from Lag to Gateway or Henderson, or vice versa, I go out of my way to take that stretch of McIvor - just because I feel like I'm sticking it to them (it's the small pleasures in life that motivate me to get out of bed in the morning).

My point, which is getting away from me, is that the situation of traffic in NK between Henderson and Lag is only going to become more problematic. They need to complete Chief, and they need to do it properly. I'm disappointed to hear of the probability that it'll have too many traffic stops, particularly on Rothesay... it should be an overpass!

But I guess that's the Winnipeg way, plan for the future by building what the needs were ten years ago.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by DowntownWpg

Douglas Auto is an eyesore, and they are perhaps the biggest rip-off artists in Winnipeg auto repair (and that's saying a lot). Good riddance!

Too bad about Petrosko Brothers Garden centre though. It's a Mom-and-Pop garden/flower store that seems to do good business, despite competing against the Rona's and Home Depots.

I suppose the senior's vegetable and flower gardens will be given the boot as well, which is between Petrosko and the bus loop. With all the sucking up to seniors that Browaty The Booze-Head (I'll expand) has done to court that vote, this community garden could derail projects such as the park-and-ride, even the Chief expansion. Note to Browaty: the symbolic Harold and Maude relationship you have courted with the elderly will all come crumbling down with a DUI or other intoxication-related charge (you have PC Manitoba friends with loose lips, and the Villa parking lot is certainly not a private retreat).

Blah, Blah, Blah...

Getting back to the Chief expansion, I grew up and lived in NK essentially my entire life, only moving to Downtown about a year ago. Have been hearing talk of expansion from the early days of former city counselor Marky-Mark Lubosch. But, apparently talk of making a route on the Douglas field has been going on in the times of Teary Duguid and Drunken D. Mitchelson (yes, alcohol has ruined an NK counselor's career before).

As Biff said, the residents should have or could have known this when they were deciding on buying their home. Echoing something along the lines of what Only The Lonely said last week, if they want to live on a nice stretch of the country, they should move to Plum Coolie.

While it's a given that people on Douglas will be up-in-arms, there really is not that many of them, so hopefully the uproar isn't great. There are no homes that I can recall on the long stretch of Douglas (between Rothesay and Raleigh).

It'd be great for NK in general, drivers, and bus routes in the northern half of Winnipeg. This may have already been mentioned, but streets such as Gilmore, McIvor, Bonner and Knowles have been (IMO) getting noticeably more and more busy the past decade, and I think it must be related to the population growth out in East St. Paul (they are using these roads to get from Lagimodiere to Henderson, then to downtown).

The incorrectly-self-perceived elitists on McIvor went so far to get Marky-Mark to put up a baracade on McIvor and Lagimodiere (to drastically reduce traffic between Gateway and Lagimodiere), and I was pleased when it came down (it was essentially North K's version of Les Misérables). Now, if I'm going from Lag to Gateway or Henderson, or vice versa, I go out of my way to take that stretch of McIvor - just because I feel like I'm sticking it to them (it's the small pleasures in life that motivate me to get out of bed in the morning).

My point, which is getting away from me, is that the situation of traffic in NK between Henderson and Lag is only going to become more problematic. They need to complete Chief, and they need to do it properly. I'm disappointed to hear of the probability that it'll have too many traffic stops, particularly on Rothesay... it should be an overpass!

But I guess that's the Winnipeg way, plan for the future by building what the needs were ten years ago.

You mean underpass!

[Only The Lonely..]

I think all of us would like to see a free flowing CPT extension, with a sufficient number of flyovers at Rothesay, Raleigh and Gateway.

But this is Winnipeg were talking about.

Our city has never done a first rate job on any major capital project built since the 60's. So why start now?

[Only The Lonely..]

Back to the comments made about Douglas Auto and the Petrosko Bros. Nursery by DowntownWpg.

Normally, i'd be the first to decry nimbyism.

But, I think North Kildonan will be a lot worse off for the loss of two viable businesses providing much needed services.

I don't think there is another full service garage in this part of the city, nevermind a fresh vegetable stand.

It's nice to have these services available to me a mere minute walk away from my home.

It's businesses like these that allow this little stretch of NK along Henderson to be a self-sustaining community.

I can't see how trading those two storefronts for a surface parking lot will improve this neighbourhood.

If anything, it makes suburban sprawl in East St. Paul that much more easier / justifiable.

[DowntownWpg]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely

Back to the comments made about Douglas Auto and the Petrosko Bros. Nursery by DowntownWpg.

Normally, i'd be the first to decry nimbyism.

But, I think North Kildonan will be a lot worse off for the loss of two viable businesses providing much needed services.

I agree re: Petrosko Brothers. I have personal issues with Douglas Auto. It's also an eyesore, doesn't help the image of NK by having so many used cars on display for sale lined up on the sidewalk (Transcona style), and there are plenty of full service garages in the immediate area (Fountain Tire, Midas).

Originally Posted by The Jabroni

You mean underpass!

Perhaps I got mixed up, but if there is an underpass, would that not also mean that there is an overpass? As in, if one road is passing under, another road would be passing over.

I'm interested if anyone has an answer... does 'underpass' only pertain to subterranean roadways?

[The Jabroni]

It is in the plans (there was a pdf posted in this topic somewhere... otherwise, it's at the city's website), but not in the "current" plans.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by DowntownWpg

Perhaps I got mixed up, but if there is an underpass, would that not also mean that there is an overpass? As in, if one road is passing under, another road would be passing over.

I'm interested if anyone has an answer... does 'underpass' only pertain to subterranean roadways?

I believe the difference between the two is whether a road crosses below grade (making it an underpass) or above grade. That's as opposed to defining it by one's position on it (which makes it subjective and therefore impossible to generally define)

I could be wrong of course that's just my best guess.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

Back to the comments made about Douglas Auto and the Petrosko Bros. Nursery by DowntownWpg.

Normally, i'd be the first to decry nimbyism.

But, I think North Kildonan will be a lot worse off for the loss of two viable businesses providing much needed services.

I don't think there is another full service garage in this part of the city, nevermind a fresh vegetable stand.

It's nice to have these services available to me a mere minute walk away from my home.

It's businesses like these that allow this little stretch of NK along Henderson to be a self-sustaining community.

I can't see how trading those two storefronts for a surface parking lot will improve this neighbourhood.

If anything, it makes suburban sprawl in East St. Paul that much more easier / justifiable.

I can appreciate your concerns here but I think that if there is a demand for these services you can rest assured that they will be restored as close by as possible.

As for the Park-n-ride I suppose that it's a bit of a double-edged sword and we're only seeing the part that cuts us right now. You're right that it could encourage sprawl in E. St. Paul but even if that is the case, it's better that those people use Winnipeg Transit at some stage of their commute rather than just drive all the way in. At least this way they mitigate some of the costs the city has to pay for the roads they drive on and they also help to increase demand for transit (which eventually would lead to more service) Come to think of it, yeah, you know, having that Park-N-Ride be used by people from E. St. Paul is a pretty good idea. The more of them that use it, the less people are lured to the exurbs in the end.

[Only The Lonely..]

Proposed light-controlled intersection concerns residents: Public meeting to be held to discuss concerns

By PAUL TURENNE, SUN MEDIA | Mon, October 27, 2008


North Kildonan residents are holding a public meeting tomorrow night to express concern about a large, light-controlled intersection that may be built at the corner of Rothesay Street and the new Chief Peguis Trail extension.

Although the city has yet to make a decision on the type of crossing that will occur at that corner, a city spokesman confirmed that the last plan presented to the public at an open house in March showed a street-level intersection there controlled by traffic lights.

The city also presented a concept at that same open house showing the possibility of turning the corner into a grade-separated underpass at some point in the future.

Gerhard Epp, one of the organizers of tomorrow's meeting, said many residents feel it would be safer to build the grade-separated intersection right away.

"Some parents are quite concerned about having their kids cross that intersection on their own," he said, noting there are a few schools in the area.


Epp said no traffic flow data was presented at the open house showing traffic lights are the best option.

Epp said tomorrow's meeting, which will take place at 7 p.m. at Chief Peguis Junior High, will allow residents to discuss the issues, and, he hopes, round up support for a petition to have the city consider a grade-separated intersection.

The city spokesman said the public works department is still in the process of preparing a report that will recommend what type of crossing to put at the corner.

The report will then go through civic committees and finally council before the design is officially approved.

[Biff]

^^^ I know the City has no money for these types of things, and a lot of people will complain that the Chief Peguis Trail extension is not needed but putting an at grade, light controlled intersection at the crossing of an 80km, four lane highway and a 50km, two lane residential street with 3 schools near by has got to be one of the dumbest ideas the city proposed yet. I am sure that if someone did some research they would find that in no other city in the world would you find an expressway intersect a residential street.

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by Biff

^^^ I know the City has no money for these types of things, and a lot of people will complain that the Chief Peguis Trail extension is not needed but putting an at grade, light controlled intersection at the crossing of an 80km, four lane highway and a 50km, two lane residential street with 3 schools near by has got to be one of the dumbest ideas the city proposed yet. I am sure that if someone did some research they would find that in no other city in the world would you find an expressway intersect a residential street.

Are you really shocked to hear this? We are talking about Winnipeg. How do you fight this stupidity by city planners? What can be done; barricade city council in until they start making more appropriate choices?

[Biff]

I'm not surprised to hear this, i am just disappointed. I actually thought that this was such a no brainer, and the fact that it was in the original plans that they would actually build something properly in this town. I am almost to the point on this project where i would rather them not build it at all if they can't build it right. They say it is in the future plans but we all no what that means in Winnipeg - NEVER, so why even say it. If it is too costly to build the underpass now when there is nothing there can you imagine how much it is going to cost in the future when the Hwy is choked full of cars and they have to close it and tear it apart to put and underpass in.

Winnipeg - city of stop and go traffic

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by Biff

^^^ I know the City has no money for these types of things, and a lot of people will complain that the Chief Peguis Trail extension is not needed but putting an at grade, light controlled intersection at the crossing of an 80km, four lane highway and a 50km, two lane residential street with 3 schools near by has got to be one of the dumbest ideas the city proposed yet. I am sure that if someone did some research they would find that in no other city in the world would you find an expressway intersect a residential street.

Why can't you be my city councillor!?

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

Why can't you be my city councillor!?

Or mine!?

[Only The Lonely..]

I went to the meeting at Chief Peguis Jr High.

Nothing out of the ordinary was presented..

Although Bonnie Mitchelson rather astutely pointed out that if Winnipeg is to become this great inland port, perhaps this is further justification to make Rothesay Street a flyover.

This would be especially true if they connect the CPT all the way to Route 90.

It would be hard to imagine a scenario where semi-trailers rumble on by at-grade while kids from three different schools try to cross.

[Tower Crane]

As someone who once attended Chief Pequis Jr high I feel the need to wade into this discussion. First and foremost what everyone is forgetting is that contrary to what has been mentioned in earlier posts regarding frustration with city PLANNERS is that the city actually no longer has real planners. They really only process ( ever so slowly ) development projects relying on consultants for the most part. I have yet to meet a true City planner these days unlike in days past where the city actually had true planners. This is why for the most part the majority of these new proposals don't make a lot of good sense.

[Biff]

The problem seems to be closed minded thinking - or so it seems. I think i would be crazy to think the city does not look at all options but it seems like it here. I have talked to some of the top city engineers on this project and they seem to say an underpass will cost between $25 and $40 million because of relocation of utilities and lift stations etc. I can see how that can break a project with an overall value of approx $65 million. But where is the option of a simple OVERPASS. No relocation of utilities, a 4 lane bridge over Rothesay with no access to the residential street. How much might that bridge cost - $10 to $15 million. Seems doable.

[Kinguni]

No points for esthetics with a bridge though. That said, a grade intersection would be ludicrous there. It may cost a lot more to do a fly-under at Rothesay, but if they can't do that then they shouldn't bother doing it at all.