HARRISBURG-LANCASTER-LEBANON-YORK | South Central, PA | Regional Development Thread

[mville1]

Originally Posted by SouthCentralPA

Thanks for the welcome! I was expecting the archives building to be taller, but oh well, it's better than the empty lot that was there before.

Also, it's funny, I used to work in Lancaster but don't anymore so I'm not up-to-date anymore with the different projects going on there. Doesn't look like there is a development thread for Lancaster though unfortunately.

Did you endure the grinding commute on 283 or take the train? A former coworker of mine, when I worked in downtown Lancaster, left to take a job working for a nonprofit in downtown Harrisburg. He lived in Lancaster city and would walk a few blocks to the train station, hop on Amtrak to Harrisburg and then walk a few blocks to his office. It has made me wonder how many people were using Amtrak between Harrisburg and Lancaster before Covid as a defacto commuter rail service.

I now work for one of the museums outside Lancaster so I miss seeing all of the projects going on in the city. Although, I do not miss driving through the city when it snows! Lancaster city is terrible at snow removal. Currently, my one coworker commutes from Hummelstown and she has many horror stories of commuting on 283 during bad weather or getting caught in the backlog from an accident. Just makes me wish Corridor One was not thrown into the trash heap of failed rail transit projects.

[SouthCentralPA]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Would it make sense to - and would you guys want to - make this the:

Harrisburg-Lancaster-Lebanon-York | Metro Development Thread

??

I feel like it would make sense to do one for the entire South Central/Mid State region, since it’s a bunch of small cities/towns. This may generate more traffic for this thread as well.

It helped combining all of the Philadelphia area small cities towns into one thread as well. Let me know what you guys think!

Originally Posted by mville1

As for changing the Harrisburg thread into the Harrisburg-York-Lebanon-Lancaster thread, I would support the change. Actually, there is probably enough development activity in the Harrisburg area to warrant a dedicated thread, but because many of Harrisburg's posters have gone inactive over the years, it makes sense to roll all these cities into one thread.

Originally Posted by summersm343

Everyone else OK with making one overarching thread for the South Central, PA region?

I'm new around here, but I would be okay with it as well! Like you both said there would likely be more content this way and hopefully more users contributing too. And personally, I'm interested in development in all these areas, so it would be nice to have it all in one spot.

[SouthCentralPA]

Originally Posted by mville1

Here is the link to Berger's proposal for the lot at N Queen and W Chestnut in Lancaster as well. I have not heard any news about this project since it was first announced in August. If both this proposal and the Mosaic are built, it would really transform downtown Lancaster.

Wow, this would be nice too. Getting rid of that surface lot would be so nice and help bring more residents downtown.

Originally Posted by mville1

Did you endure the grinding commute on 283 or take the train? A former coworker of mine, when I worked in downtown Lancaster, left to take a job working for a nonprofit in downtown Harrisburg. He lived in Lancaster city and would walk a few blocks to the train station, hop on Amtrak to Harrisburg and then walk a few blocks to his office. It has made me wonder how many people were using Amtrak between Harrisburg and Lancaster before Covid as a defacto commuter rail service.

Unfortunately, my commute was on 283. I was late to work many times due to crashes causing major backlogs. The worst was when the sun was at the perfect height that it would be directly in driver's eyes for large lengths of 283. It wouldn't be uncommon to see multiple crashes on the way to work on days like that..

But I have heard of people taking the train between Harrisburg and Lancaster. I even worked with someone who would commute from outside of Philly into Lancaster City every day on the train.

Originally Posted by mville1

I now work for one of the museums outside Lancaster so I miss seeing all of the projects going on in the city. Although, I do not miss driving through the city when it snows! Lancaster city is terrible at snow removal. Currently, my one coworker commutes from Hummelstown and she has many horror stories of commuting on 283 during bad weather or getting caught in the backlog from an accident. Just makes me wish Corridor One was not thrown into the trash heap of failed rail transit projects.

I don't miss driving in Lancaster at all because of how bad of shape the roads are in. Especially S. Prince, it feels like you're off-roading it's so bad. It really is a shame Amtrak isn't a more viable option for commuting between Harrisburg and Lancaster. It could really make our region even more connected than it is now.

[deja vu]

Originally Posted by mville1

Here is the link to Berger's proposal for the lot at N Queen and W Chestnut in Lancaster as well. I have not heard any news about this project since it was first announced in August. If both this proposal and the Mosaic are built, it would really transform downtown Lancaster.

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=243585

Ah thanks. Forgot to include that one!

Originally Posted by summersm343

Everyone else OK with making one overarching thread for the South Central, PA region?

As a former central PA resident (now residing out-of-state), I'd be fine with that, as long as someone can also edit the first post of the "General Pennsylvania Cities P&C " thread to clarify the geographical areas that thread would now encompass. Otherwise it's going to be confusing for other newcomers to the site. It currently lists places like Harrisburg, Lancaster, and Allentown. I think that thread is meant to be the catch-all for all areas not otherwise covered.

I'm going through the same thing with trying to organize Michigan threads. It is a vast state and these threads develop organically over time, often with overlap because folks just don't know a thread exists, or don't remember which threads cover which areas.

[SouthCentralPA]

Harrisburg University Tower
Taken on my phone on 01/10/2021. Not really any visual change/progress over the past week.

[SouthCentralPA]

Sounds like good news for the Harrisburg University tower.

https://theburgnews.com/news/harrisb...ntown-building

[mville1]

Thanks for the update! Saw this project the other day proposed for 1315 N Sixth Street.

New five-story affordable living apartment building planned for Harrisburg

By: Daniel Urie | Pennlive

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2021/0...arrisburg.html

Looks like quite of bit surface parking, but maybe I am misreading the site plans???

[SouthCentralPA]

Originally Posted by mville1

Saw this project the other day proposed for 1315 N Sixth Street.

Looks like quite of bit surface parking, but maybe I am misreading the site plans???

I missed this one, so thanks for sharing! It looks like most of that surface parking already exists for the 13-story Jackson Tower and the 14-story Lick Tower which is already at the site. The dark shaded area looks to be where the new 5-story building would be constructed with underground parking. I think there is currently surface parking there which would be moved directly next to the shaded area.

[SouthCentralPA]

View of the Federal Courthouse from the Broad Street Market. Taken on my phone on 01/16/2021.

[EastSideHBG]

Nice to see the momentum in HBG and it's one of those places that should be booming but yet for some reason just doesn't quite seem to catch on.

Originally Posted by summersm343

That's what I was thinking. For instance, there was/is enough development and activity in the Wilmington area to warrant it's own thread, but it just made sense to fold it in with the Philadelphia Metro PA and NJ counties as one big thread.

Everyone else OK with making one overarching thread for the South Central, PA region?

Makes sense and a simple "South Central, PA" title or something similar would work. Or just use the majors e.g. "Harrisburg-Lancaster-York".

[wanderer34]

Originally Posted by mville1

Did you endure the grinding commute on 283 or take the train? A former coworker of mine, when I worked in downtown Lancaster, left to take a job working for a nonprofit in downtown Harrisburg. He lived in Lancaster city and would walk a few blocks to the train station, hop on Amtrak to Harrisburg and then walk a few blocks to his office. It has made me wonder how many people were using Amtrak between Harrisburg and Lancaster before Covid as a defacto commuter rail service.

I now work for one of the museums outside Lancaster so I miss seeing all of the projects going on in the city. Although, I do not miss driving through the city when it snows! Lancaster city is terrible at snow removal. Currently, my one coworker commutes from Hummelstown and she has many horror stories of commuting on 283 during bad weather or getting caught in the backlog from an accident. Just makes me wish Corridor One was not thrown into the trash heap of failed rail transit projects.

When it comes to restoring rail infrastructure and service, the Commonwealth of PA sucks big time. I thought Corridor One was a great idea and it would've connected Central PA cities like Lancaster, Reading, Lebanon, York, and Carlisle with Harrisburg.

The fact that the Commonwealth couldn't subsidize a simple project like Corridor One is the biggest blunder that PA has committed, not to mention restoring and expanding the former right of ways in SEPTA's commuter rail system from Philadelphia to Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton, Reading, Lancaster, and West Chester.

SEPTA could've done a favor to those outlying communities by allowing diesel trains to run through the Center City Commuter Tunnel, but at the last minute, SEPTA decided not to do that, and as a result, routes became truncated which is why SEPTA only runs trains from Center City from Philadelphia to Lansdale, Norristown, Coatesville, and Elwyn as opposed to the further destinations.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by wanderer34

When it comes to restoring rail infrastructure and service, the Commonwealth of PA sucks big time. I thought Corridor One was a great idea and it would've connected Central PA cities like Lancaster, Reading, Lebanon, York, and Carlisle with Harrisburg.

The fact that the Commonwealth couldn't subsidize a simple project like Corridor One is the biggest blunder that PA has committed, not to mention restoring and expanding the former right of ways in SEPTA's commuter rail system from Philadelphia to Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton, Reading, Lancaster, and West Chester.

SEPTA could've done a favor to those outlying communities by allowing diesel trains to run through the Center City Commuter Tunnel, but at the last minute, SEPTA decided not to do that, and as a result, routes became truncated which is why SEPTA only runs trains from Center City from Philadelphia to Lansdale, Norristown, Coatesville, and Elwyn as opposed to the further destinations.

Corridor One flopping was one of the biggest disappointments and that would have done so much for the region and state. Hell they even built a station on City Island in anticipation for it, the parking garage was built next to the rail line deliberately and was going to be a stop.

[SouthCentralPA]

Is Corridor One dead for good or is there a chance of it happening some day?

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by SouthCentralPA

Is Corridor One dead for good or is there a chance of it happening some day?

Last I heard it is pretty much dead and the funding stalled many years ago. I assume the plans could be revived at some point but I wouldn't hold my breath, as by now the costs would be much higher and seeing as how poorly we treat rail transportation in this country...

[bfbaldy]

Wow, that commuter rail may have totally transformed South Central PA. It would have connected Dauphin, York, Lebanon, Lancaster & Cumberland county.

[SouthCentralPA]

Harrisburg Skyline
Photo taken on my phone on 01/19/2021 from Negley Park. You can see the Federal Courthouse on the left and faintly see the crane for the PA State Archives Building to the left of that.

[bfbaldy]

Looking at your photos reminds me of a article I read some years ago in the Patriot News, the article was talking about how downtown Harrisburg cannot expand west because of the river and cannot expand east because of the railroad tracks. If Harrisburg downtown were to expand and grow it has too expand North to Maclay street and south to Paxton street. I had know vision of that at the time because 6/7th and Reliey street extending to Maclay was highly densely populated, now I can see the vision of that article written 20 plus years ago.

[SouthCentralPA]

Originally Posted by bfbaldy

Looking at your photos reminds me of a article I read some years ago in the Patriot News, the article was talking about how downtown Harrisburg cannot expand west because of the river and cannot expand east because of the railroad tracks. If Harrisburg downtown were to expand and grow it has too expand North to Maclay street and south to Paxton street. I had know vision of that at the time because 6/7th and Reliey street extending to Maclay was highly densely populated, now I can see the vision of that article written 20 plus years ago.

I've never really thought about it before but you're completely right. Can't expand east or west and can't really expand south because of I-83, which leaves expanding north as the only option. It seems like 6th & 7th street corridor would be the most likely area to expand since many blocks are so empty nowadays, plus some new buildings are already being built in that corridor!

[EastSideHBG]

Great pics! I used to love going up there on a nice day and it's magical at sunset; Harrisburg is lucky to have such natural beauty.

Originally Posted by bfbaldy

Looking at your photos reminds me of a article I read some years ago in the Patriot News, the article was talking about how downtown Harrisburg cannot expand west because of the river and cannot expand east because of the railroad tracks. If Harrisburg downtown were to expand and grow it has too expand North to Maclay street and south to Paxton street. I had know vision of that at the time because 6/7th and Reliey street extending to Maclay was highly densely populated, now I can see the vision of that article written 20 plus years ago.

Originally Posted by SouthCentralPA

I've never really thought about it before but you're completely right. Can't expand east or west and can't really expand south because of I-83, which leaves expanding north as the only option. It seems like 6th & 7th street corridor would be the most likely area to expand since many blocks are so empty nowadays, plus some new buildings are already being built in that corridor!

Well unfortunately more wasted potential here, the Southern Gateway Project would have filled the skyline in a bit:

https://behbg.com/idea/southern-gateway-project/

The Northern Gateway Project is what you are seeing now with the new federal courthouse, state archives, etc.

[bfbaldy]

Actually in regard to expanding DT south, you could demolish the old post office on market street that In itself is about guessing 7 to 10 acres or more. There are a lot of old vacant buildings on S. Cameron street. If you did a google earth search from cameron and market down to paxton street going west to second street that's a lot of land not being used for anything.