Division Transit Project

[davehogan]

Originally Posted by hat

New documents containing public feedback for the Powell-Division corridor.

If those are the same documents they emailed me, it'll be BRT Light.

Not bad, build express lanes where they easily can, it opens sooner, and is cheaper. It doesn't reserve much ROW for future upgrades, but it opens cheap and fast.

[hat]

Originally Posted by davehogan

If those are the same documents they emailed me, it'll be BRT Light.

Not bad, build express lanes where they easily can, it opens sooner, and is cheaper. It doesn't reserve much ROW for future upgrades, but it opens cheap and fast.

I don't know anyone who would take this bus as opposed to drive. As evidenced earlier by APTA, this will likely not increase the ride share in Portland, and may be a reason for not improving transit in East Portland indefinitely.

[davehogan]

Originally Posted by hat

I don't know anyone who would take this bus as opposed to drive. As evidenced earlier by APTA, this will likely not increase the ride share in Portland, and may be a reason for not improving transit in East Portland indefinitely.

The 9 is already so overcrowded for at least the inner parts of the route that I'd think a larger express bus with a faster trip would probably bring back riders who have given up on the bus because it can't always stop to let them on. I don't use the 9 a lot, but I've had a few times where the driver just waved because the bus was overcrowded and he couldn't fit me on it.

In East Portland there's actually space along Division to have dedicated lanes, so it should work pretty well as an upgrade for access to the Green Line as well SE and Downtown with a faster trip than is currently available. There's ROW available from SE 82nd to Gresham on Division if you're willing to take away on street parking and redo some intersections. There might be a few buildings that would need to be removed to have dedicated lanes at every major intersection, but the buses could probably share the right turn lane efficiently.

The communities along Powell and Division seem to agree that MAX would be nice, but it's not worth the costs (both fiscal and the damage to the neighborhoods to create the ROW.)

Here's a great doc about the project from the public outreach. Much like the Inner SE bike and pedestrian improvements that are built into the Orange Line this is as much about transit as it is making those streets more friendly to all modes.

[hat]

Originally Posted by davehogan

The communities along Powell and Division seem to agree that MAX would be nice, but it's not worth the costs (both fiscal and the damage to the neighborhoods to create the ROW.)

A quick tally of the comments available by searching "MAX" in this document shows about equal numbers wanting MAX vs people who do not (though I would encourage others to check for themselves). Numerous comments on the con side state that they do not want the MAX to cause crime in their neighborhood. Half of the people who gave input want a MAX without any information on what it would look like. Perhaps if data-based information were shared on this option, particularly the statistics on crime before and after, as well as actual cost and benefits, even more would consider it. This indicates to me that light rail was never actually considered for this corridor.

[pdxstreetcar]

the thing is, if its easy to put bus lanes in at a location, you probably don't need them there. you need bus lanes where the traffic congestion is and likely every square inch of land has already been devoted to road space.

so instead a single 60' long bus with 100 occupants on it is stuck in traffic caused by 100 single occupant vehicles containing 100 people (or about 2500' long, 100 x 25' length a car).

[65MAX]

I don't think light rail was seriously considered either. But if they don't provide exclusive lanes for the new buses along this corridor, then they might as well do nothing at all. Just buy a few extra buses so they can at least have enough capacity to carry everybody wanting to ride, but they'll just sit in traffic with everybody in their SOVs.

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by 65MAX

I don't think light rail was seriously considered either. But if they don't provide exclusive lanes for the new buses along this corridor, then they might as well do nothing at all. Just buy a few extra buses so they can at least have enough capacity to carry everybody wanting to ride, but they'll just sit in traffic with everybody in their SOVs.

I agree with you here. Not providing an exclusive right of way for transit basically means the transit will sit in traffic. Their only hope is more people will ride transit so that less people use cars to help reduce the traffic.

I am concerned about the streetcar along Grand and MLK, it seems like they should have turned the streetcar lane into a streetcar and car turning lane only rather than having it be a through street for traffic to sit on.

[maccoinnich]

Rail Or Fast Buses? Decision Looms On Powell-Division Transit



Traditional buses currently serve Powell Boulevard, pictured, and Division Street, but officials at Metro are looking at several faster alternatives.

Portland is gearing up for a major new transit project covering more than ten miles - from downtown Portland east to Gresham. A significant committee decision is expected Monday.

There’s general agreement that the Powell-Division corridor needs some kind of fast transit system. Metro principal planner Brian Monberg says steering committee members are on the verge of nailing down what kind of transit.

...continues at OPB.

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by maccoinnich

...continues at OPB.

Hopefully they go with rail, but I have a feeling if they go with BRT, they won't actually build a real BRT which will be a huge disappointment.

[maccoinnich]

Portland Transport thread: Decision time for Powell/Division.

[dubu]

bendy busses instead of light rail? hopfully not

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by dabom

bendy busses instead of light rail? hopfully not

I think they will go for light rail.

[urbanlife]

Personally I would love to see Portland put that new bridge to use and have a light rail or streetcar line running down Division, and a light rail line running down Powell and Foster. One can always dream, but the realist in me doesn't expect this to happen.

[maccoinnich]

It's official:

Steering committee drops rail, sets course for Powell-Division study's future



Metro project manager Brian Monberg discusses transit options with members of the Powell-Division transit project steering committee on Sept. 29

Division Street's transit future is on a bus.

An advisory committee of leaders from Portland, Gresham and East Multnomah County voted Monday to move forward with a bus-only study of high capacity transit on the Powell-Division corridor, dropping streetcar and light rail as an option for further consideration.

The unanimous vote came as committee members said they were focused more on a project that could be built soon and require substantially less private property acquisition and roadway impacts than a rail project.

...continues at Metro.

[davehogan]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

Personally I would love to see Portland put that new bridge to use and have a light rail or streetcar line running down Division, and a light rail line running down Powell and Foster. One can always dream, but the realist in me doesn't expect this to happen.

The new bridge is designed to handle buses as well. It even has a dedicated busway that from what I've been able to find out will handle south/east bound buses from SE Division Pl and SE 9th to SE Milwaukie. They even have their own traffic light at SE Milwaukie.

It's on the south side of the new MAX tracks, and includes a bike/pedestrian facility that I've already used. I'm not sure if I was supposed to, but the fence was open.

And yeah, at the open houses I went to the consensus was basically, "We want better transit. Buses are fine. Give us some ROW if you can, or at least some priority over traffic lights, and faster boarding. Keep the existing 4 and 9, and open it soon."

I'm not at all surprised.

See also: Link

The people who live along the corridor just don't care if it's a bus, we just want better service.

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by davehogan

The new bridge is designed to handle buses as well. It even has a dedicated busway that from what I've been able to find out will handle south/east bound buses from SE Division Pl and SE 9th to SE Milwaukie. They even have their own traffic light at SE Milwaukie.

It's on the south side of the new MAX tracks, and includes a bike/pedestrian facility that I've already used. I'm not sure if I was supposed to, but the fence was open.

And yeah, at the open houses I went to the consensus was basically, "We want better transit. Buses are fine. Give us some ROW if you can, or at least some priority over traffic lights, and faster boarding. Keep the existing 4 and 9, and open it soon."

I'm not at all surprised.

See also: Link

The people who live along the corridor just don't care if it's a bus, we just want better service.

I know, I wrote it on my phone, so I didn't write buses as well for the bridge.

[maccoinnich]

Metro and TriMet introduce bus rapid transit for Powell-Division corridor
Posted by Jonathan Maus (Publisher/Editor) on December 2nd, 2014 at 12:54 pm



Only in Portland would a regional planning agency host a lunchtime event titled “Bus Rapid Transit 101″ in a movie theater with free popcorn.

That was the setting yesterday for a meeting hosted by Metro to introduce Portlanders to their Powell-Division Transit Development Project. The planning effort is just getting started and the aim is to create the region’s first bus rapid transit (BRT) service on a 15-mile route along SE Powell and Division streets between Portland and Gresham.

...continues at BikePortland.

[PDXDENSITY]

Originally Posted by maccoinnich

...continues at BikePortland.

I'm less disappointed about BRT on this corridor; but it needs to be dedicated right of way! Many South American cities use successful networks. Further, I think this should be a model (along with converting to streetcar eventually) for adding spurs to make connectivity across the city better with a MAX/BRT/Streetcar one transfer possible for longer trips. It could revolutionize our transit system.

In any case, I am excited if this can be modeled as a direct line off the MAX. This could really explode the development already happening on Division as well as spark new development on Powell. Powell has been aching for density for a long while!

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by maccoinnich

...continues at BikePortland.

I was wondering how this went, I had to work so I had no way of going to it. I am hesitant about BRT, I think it is a good idea if it is done right. It needs to be running on a separate system or it will just be another bus system. Though at the same time this is the same issue I have with the streetcar. I think along MLK/Grand it should have been a dedicated streetcar lane/turn lane only for cars. The current system looks like the streetcar will get stuck in traffic and be less efficient, and I am worried the same will happen to BRT if they don't give the system the dedication it needs.

[dubu]

i saw the brt in eugene a few days ago and it looks silly. where are the train tracks?