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  #1  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2023, 4:05 PM
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What is it like to come home to Canada?

I am thinking of it. It's nice here but you live here long enough, and you realize that some of the ways that things are built really do reflect their norms, and their expectations, and that there are subtle differences. I suppose that's true anywhere. I don't begrudge the Scandinavians anything, Denmark and Sweden have given me basically all of the structural elements of my current life and I am grateful -- but I'm considering coming home.

Have any of you guys had the experience of returning to Canada after a long time living elsewhere? What did it feel like? Were there things about Canada that you found really welcome, or things that disappointed you? Did you find that "your Canada" was kind of out of date by the time you actually returned?
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Old Posted Nov 8, 2023, 4:26 PM
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One that occured to me after a week in France in October and a US road trip last March.

I know exactly what to expect when I walk into a restaurant here. If it's the type of place I should seat myself, wait for a host, order at the bar, do I pay at the counter or will they bring over a machine etc. I've never been confused.

I found a lot of places in the US the style of service wasn't obvious, seemed like it was obvious but I was wrong, get weird looks/zero guidance where here it seems someone would be quick to let the obviously confused person know what to do, etc.

In France it was obviously a bit different due to the language barrier, being in very tourist heavy areas, etc. I know it's a different dining culture but it still seemed harder to navigate than I thought. Like, I get that people like to take their time and not be bothered by a waiter too often. But like, get me started with something before you disappear for 20 minutes! A water even. I don't just want to sit at a table with nothing... and even it took the same amount of time before we got around to ordering food, they could have sold me like 3 times the amount of drinks if someone had ever appeared to facilitate that.

So yeah, loving my comfortable Canadian dining experiences currently.
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  #3  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2023, 4:32 PM
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When I was in Canada last summer, I absolutely haunted Toronto's diners. All-day breakfast, bottomless coffee. It's just such a joy.
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Old Posted Nov 8, 2023, 4:33 PM
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And more broadly... Canada is comfortable. Canada can be very, very comfy. It has always been hard to make this point without getting some sort of political response, especially now, but it's really not a political thing. A lot of the things I miss about Canada are its American qualities. American in the broad sense. Like, I like that Montreal follows Amsterdam rather than Dallas on its transit, sure, of course that's better. But I'm already in Scandinavia, so all that stuff is priced in. If I come home I'm going to get a bigger house and a bigger car*, and I love going to the diner.



(* and not a mcmansion, and not an F-250... just not an apartment with a little cage elevator and a hatchback!)
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  #5  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2023, 4:46 PM
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Yes, Canada is very "comfy. Really easy to do most things without any worry.

Longest I've spent away is 4 months in South Africa so no massive changes during that time, but that was the most notable difference. You aren't worried about being in the wrong place or having to watch out for things. People in Canada are certainly colder, which was the biggest disappointment - if you don't have a social group I feel like it can be relatively hard to build one. That being said you also don't have to worry about being hustled/grifted - something that also applies to parts of Europe.

I missed the casual environment of "sports clubs" in SA where you could sit at a table with your laptop and 10 mins later end up at a table with a group of people having a beer. But coming back to Toronto, sitting down at a favourite local bar then immediately getting into conversation was also great.

I haven't spent nearly as much time in Europe (or elsewhere) in one go - the longest being a week each in Berlin and Copenhagen. The biggest difference I noticed is I felt like not all places are "for you". Not that anything bad would happen but there's much more a culture around who can partake in certain things, especially in CPH. The closest analogue I can think of in Toronto is some really old-school Portuguese sports bars that are more akin to private clubs.

The primary aspect of life in current Canada that can be stifling is the cost. Which fortunately doesn't affect me personally that much. And certainly applies to many locales around the world these days.
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  #6  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2023, 4:57 PM
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After 6 months in Australia, the part I missed most about Canada was freshwater - lakes, boreal forest type country. Most of the Australia I was staying near was adjacent to the ocean. It's great of course - but after a while I kinda got over the salty.

Also really missed central heating in a house!
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  #7  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2023, 5:12 PM
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Speaking of central heating, you have to leave Toronto to find out that forced air heating sucks balls.

Aside from that, I'm constantly reminded by others when both home or abroad about Toronto traits and nuances and I'm specifically saying Toronto than Canada. I'm building a house on the east coast and while the people there are undeniably Canadian, they are very different than Torontonians and that changes the entire feel of a place. They are aggressively nosey. You can't get more opposite to a stereotypical Torontonian.
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  #8  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2023, 5:15 PM
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I also find Canada very comfy though always try to remain cognizant that a big part of that could just be that it's what I am used to.

I've actually known true big city people who live car-free who find driving traffic-free roads to businesses where you can easily park right outside the door less convenient than doing such errands via urban transit in their city.

Also, it's human nature to appreciate what you don't have at the moment and take for granted the good stuff you have.

For example, in parts of Europe life can be more comfy than in Canada if you need to see a doctor or visit a hospital emergency room.

That said, I do think that overall the new world anglosphere countries (USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand) are extremely user-friendly in terms of most aspects of a person's life. Even people who come from other parts of the world known for greater refinement will generally agree that we have an enviable level of comfort and practicality.
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  #9  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2023, 5:17 PM
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
Speaking of central heating, you have to leave Toronto to find out that forced air heating sucks balls.
As opposed to? (Not sure I understand this comment.)
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  #10  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2023, 5:18 PM
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This is a timely thread as I'm about to reach my two year anniversary of arriving back to Canada to live.

It's been......really good, actually. I was very, very apprehensive about returning home for a long time. I spent almost 20 years abroad, and started to identify nationally as "homeless". I no longer felt Canadian, but I definitely felt foreign living in Taiwan, China and South Korea. Like you, home started calling me, and it became something I couldn't ignore. Beside Taiwan (due to my wife being Taiwanese), China and Korea were never places I planned on spending the rest of my life, and the clock was ticking. I wasn't getting any younger, and really wanted to see how I'd fair in Canada as a professional photographer/videographer.

There have been some challenges, for sure. My way of working and doing business is absolutely inspired by my time Shanghai. I work quickly, hope emails will be responded to within the hour, and expect critique to be to-the-point. It's all business to me, so if you don't like what I did, tell me right away, so it can be fixed.

Canada doesn't really operate this way. I find emotions play a role in Canadian business. People will sometimes take days to respond. And critique will be watered down so as not to hurt one's feelings. I'm adapting to this, and restructuring my expectations. There's much less pressure here which is good thing, I think. Lifestyle and work sort of blend together in a way that just doesn't exist in East Asia.

As far as living in Vancouver, it's been great. Despite the awful housing crisis that looms large here, the city itself was the perfect landing pad for us. A proper mix and East meets West with everything else mixed in-between. It's a very different city than it was when I left. Vastly more populated and multi-cultural.

The main thing is that my wife likes living here. It was one of my biggest worries coming home. She's always lived in big, vibrant cities, so I wasn't sure how Vancouver would hold up.
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  #11  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2023, 5:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew View Post
After 6 months in Australia, the part I missed most about Canada was freshwater - lakes, boreal forest type country. Most of the Australia I was staying near was adjacent to the ocean. It's great of course - but after a while I kinda got over the salty.

Also really missed central heating in a house!
I have an Irish coworker who moved here in March but has been living with in laws till this month. While he was getting all his bills and utilites set up he asked me if gas for heating was optional!

"What happens if you just don't have heat?"

"Um... you freeze to death"

Apparently his parents get by with a wood fireplace in the main room, a plug in space heater in the bedroom, and lot of sweaters!
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  #12  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2023, 5:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
As opposed to? (Not sure I understand this comment.)
I lied. I grew up in a century old house with hot water radiant heat so it didn't take me long to figure out that my first place with forced air sucks balls. You won't know any better if you always lived north of Eglinton.

I lived in Quebec for a time and the most common heating system in the area was radiant heat from electrical baseboards. Electricity was crazy cheap compared to Ontario.

And before it gets mentioned, I'm ignoring central air conditioning and Toronto goes through periods in which it's unbearable without it.

Last edited by WhipperSnapper; Nov 8, 2023 at 6:00 PM.
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  #13  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2023, 6:09 PM
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Yeah radiant heat is much better than forced air in the winter. Been a noticeable difference between places I've lived that had it vs forced air.
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Old Posted Nov 8, 2023, 6:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny24 View Post
"What happens if you just don't have heat?"
"Um... you freeze to death"
Haha, love it. Trying to explain hypothermia to someone who's never encountered that as even a remote possibility would be fun.

"What if I get tired out in the snow and just feel like lying down for a while?"

"If you're lucky, you have a little nap and lose some fingers and toes maybe. Long nap... bad."
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  #15  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2023, 7:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jonny24 View Post
I have an Irish coworker who moved here in March but has been living with in laws till this month. While he was getting all his bills and utilites set up he asked me if gas for heating was optional!

"What happens if you just don't have heat?"

"Um... you freeze to death"

Apparently his parents get by with a wood fireplace in the main room, a plug in space heater in the bedroom, and lot of sweaters!
I visited a friend in Ireland a few years ago, and in his parent's large suburban house, they just heated the room they were in and closed the door to adjacent rooms. This had nothing to do with it being an old house or anything like that (every room had its own radiator), it was just that with no concern for frozen pipes or truly dangerous temperatures, they could just crank the heat down in little-used rooms and save money. But it was...not comfortable.
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Old Posted Nov 8, 2023, 7:04 PM
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
[...]-- but I'm considering coming home.
Have any of you guys had the experience of returning to Canada after a long time living elsewhere? What did it feel like? Were there things about Canada that you found really welcome, or things that disappointed you? Did you find that "your Canada" was kind of out of date by the time you actually returned?
I have lived in France for almost 4 years, from 2016 to 2019 in order to achieve a Ph.D. There is a lot of work and research being done in France in my field (heritage / culture / land planning). I was going there with open plans - I could come back or not, depending on the opportunities I would find. I had the opportunity of working there in a natural park while studying and collaborating in a research laboratory as a part of my thesis project.

I was not gone long enough to feel that Canada was different when I was back. And coming back to Canada was not that hard.

In fact, studying and working in France is rather harsh, compared to Québec. People tend to overwork, and to make the day of work long and inefficient (7:30/8AM to 7/7:30PM, with an incredibly long dinner pause from 1 to 2:30PM). I was glad to come back and finally get back to an 8 to 4 schedule and do something else rather than working. Even though I enjoy chatting with my colleagues, I also love my own personal life and relatives, and I am glad to come back home in order to eat and talk with them (and do domestic chores too). I missed that much when living there.

I also enjoyed the canadian way of respecting people's boundaries. I did not realize that I missed that this much while in France. For example, going to a social gathering and bringing a nice bottle of wine - if you put your bottle on the kitchen counter, you can be sure that it will be empty before you pour your second glass. People assume that everything is shared at all time. We like to share in Canada, but we are polite and ask before. The answer will always be yes. Another example, at the restaurant, my colleagues would always split the bill in even parts. I was rather poor at the time and did not order expensive meals when eating out, so it was awkward for me to ask them if I could pay less because my meal was cheaper. I was seen as "the ungenerous individualistic north-american capitalist folk" (I am barely exaggerating). In Canada, people have much more consideration about everyone's situation and genuinely want the people around the table to feel good. This comfort was missing in France. But I do get their conception of generosity, though.

Also I was glad to come back to a country where mental illness is not taboo. Experimenting a depression or anxiety in Canada is okay, and can be handled. In France it was still seen as some sort of weakness. One has to hide it in order to be well perceived.

As a gay man, I was also relieved to come back to Canada. My thesis advisor always had this catholic cross around the neck, and I was not encline to talk to him about my boyfriend when he asked more personal questions. With my younger colleagues, there was no problem of course. I also often had to meet with farmers or to interview older persons for my data collect, and they were always automatically asking me where my wife was. The centre of France is still quite catholic and conservative. I had never encountered this situation in Québec, even in the countryside where I have lived most of my life. People are generally open-minded here or, otherwise, they have a vivre et laisser vivre mindset, whatever age they are.

One thing though I found rather hard, when coming back to Canada, was the access to nature (I know, it's not what you would expect to read). I am a very enthousiast hiker, and the european network of long-hike paths is extraordinary. There was always a small GR de pays or GR path or a Forêt domaniale somewhere, that lead from the inner city to the countryside. In Canada, nature is omnipresent but private. You have to drive to the closest regional or national park in order to have access to nature (yes I am aware of the urban parks networks around Canada - it's kind of my job). I really miss going for walks or long hiking trips, and exploring numerous towns or villages.

I also miss the smaller scale of everything. It felt comfortable. Stroads here are depressing, grey, beige and chaotic.

Finally... let's talk about public transit. I could easily go from Versailles to Paris, then to a regional capital, then to a department chef-lieu and then to a backcountry village of 700 people using public transit. Yes, my journeys were long and required multiple modal transfers, but it was very convenient. I missed that a lot when I came back to Canada. I had to buy a car to go see my family.

Now, I really feel like Canada is a great place to live. Even though I am always surprised by the duration of our Québec winters, I enjoy living in a peaceful place where we have kept a human pace, and where la gentillesse prevails. It's not perfect, but there's nowhere like home, I guess. Overall, France has given me a desire for precision when writing and speaking (in French, not in English, as you can see I use way too many words to express myself in English ), it has bettered my ability to debate and has greatly increased my assertiveness. But I am still a gentle canadien français.
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  #17  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2023, 7:29 PM
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
I lied. I grew up in a century old house with hot water radiant heat so it didn't take me long to figure out that my first place with forced air sucks balls. You won't know any better if you always lived north of Eglinton.

I lived in Quebec for a time and the most common heating system in the area was radiant heat from electrical baseboards. Electricity was crazy cheap compared to Ontario.

And before it gets mentioned, I'm ignoring central air conditioning and Toronto goes through periods in which it's unbearable without it.
My 1906 house has hot water radiant heat. Hot water rads are common as dirt around here (Winnipeg) for that vintage of house.

Radiant is nice heat - but - it's DRY in the dead of winter. Forced air you can at least bolt on a humidifier to the air distribution. Older homes like mine have no real amount of insulation so the level of humidity outside is the same as inside. So basically zero in Jan/Feb.
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Old Posted Nov 8, 2023, 7:29 PM
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That was really interesting. I can see how France might be like that. I also get your point about nature -- Stockholm is much, much better for the outdoors than Montreal or Toronto, and it's largely due to things like nature reserves, trail networks and things like this.
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Old Posted Nov 8, 2023, 7:33 PM
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My 1906 house has hot water radiant heat. Hot water rads are common as dirt around here (Winnipeg) for that vintage of house.

Radiant is nice heat - but - it's DRY in the dead of winter. Forced air you can at least bolt on a humidifier to the air distribution. Older homes like mine have no real amount of insulation so the level of humidity outside is the same as inside. So basically zero in Jan/Feb.
I have the entire range of heating in my house:

Forced air natural gas furnace covering the whole house with ducts

Electric heated (radiant) floors

Baseboard electric heaters (in the basement)

Natural gas fireplace on the main floor


Can't say I am complaining.
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Old Posted Nov 8, 2023, 7:37 PM
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^ yeah - we have a few heated floors (bathrooms and kitchen) and a single electric baseboard in the back porch, but the main heat source is the boiler and rads.

Heated floors I think are the best heat overall. Warm feet and a cool head.
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