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  #161  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2020, 7:05 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
I didn't know HSR would be so "cheap" on this route. I wonder what the ROI is in terms of passenger volumes? Seems somewhat feasible, unlike the estimates we have in BC for a bridge to Vancouver Island.
See the link I posted. The market isn't there for a positive ROI yet. What it recommended was trying to acquire the land now so that the costs don't grow in the future. I think there's an argument to be made for an HSR or HFR line as some kind of re-investment in Alberta.

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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Most iterations of hyperloop call for a vacuum (or low pressure that is very close to a vacuum and comes with the same engineering problems). The less of a vacuum created, the less point of even building the thing because you lose any speed advantage over running whatever you’re building in the open air.
If you don't promise something ridiculously futuristic, you won't get free land. They don't actually want something that becomes feasible in a few years that they might have to commit to building. Or they would have funded HSR or their homegrown Maglev company.

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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Existing maglev technology can already operate in the 500 kph range, it is just too expensive for use outside of novelty applications (although there might be an intercity service in Japan in a few decades).
Scheduled opening for Tokyo-Nagoya section is 2027. And construction started 5 years ago. Hundreds of thousands of passengers have already ridden the train on the test track (which will be incorporated into the actual line). So more like a decade out. Not decades.
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  #162  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2020, 12:30 PM
acottawa acottawa is online now
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I was referencing the completion of the line to Osaka in 2037 or 2045. Also, 2027 is now identified as “difficult” but I take your point that there may be an intercity service in less than a decade.
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  #163  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2020, 12:40 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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I think we can agree that that Tokyo-Nagoya on the Chuo Shinkansen will be in service before any Hyperloop has carried a single human. Even delayed, I figure, they'll have the first phase by 2030 most likely.
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  #164  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2020, 2:47 PM
Urban_Sky Urban_Sky is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
I think we can agree that that Tokyo-Nagoya on the Chuo Shinkansen will be in service before any Hyperloop has carried a single human. Even delayed, I figure, they'll have the first phase by 2030 most likely.
Which will allow Maglevs to finally become what its proponents have already (misleadingly) claimed it to be for more than a half-century: a readily available and technologically and economically proven alternative to HSR. However, the real challenge will be to find a second Corridor anywhere on this planet where chosing this technology, which is inherently incompatible with existing transportation infrastructure, makes sense, as building in parallel to HSR corridors which have reached their capacity limit makes for a microscopically small niche...
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  #165  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2020, 8:35 AM
acottawa acottawa is online now
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The economics of maglev are still pretty questionable. The Japanese line is over a hundred billion Canadian dollars. In Japan where it connects a metro population of 30M with a metro population of 10M and a metro population of 20M it might work economically, but I am not sure it is a broadly usable technology unless costs come down considerably. Still more viable than hyperloop, of course. China or one of the gulf states may build one as a vanity project.
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  #166  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2020, 3:23 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
The economics of maglev are still pretty questionable. The Japanese line is over a hundred billion Canadian dollars. In Japan where it connects a metro population of 30M with a metro population of 10M and a metro population of 20M it might work economically, but I am not sure it is a broadly usable technology unless costs come down considerably. Still more viable than hyperloop, of course. China or one of the gulf states may build one as a vanity project.
The scale just isn't there, even if the engineering is. Reminds me of the "bridge to Vancouver Island" project. Yes you can do it, it will cost $200B+ and require tolls of $400/car to break even.
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  #167  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2020, 4:03 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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The Chuo Shinkansen is particularly expensive because so much tunneling was required. Not quite sure that would be applicable elsewhere, though elevation would be required. So maybe 10-30% cheaper elsewhere. But it's still insanely expensive and all but uneconomical for any corridor without a catchment well into the tens of millions.

And Hyperloop takes this and aims to put it in a vacuum tube.
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  #168  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2020, 4:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
And Hyperloop takes this and aims to put it in a vacuum tube.
A perfectly reasonable thing to do... on Mars.
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  #169  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2020, 5:13 PM
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Originally Posted by rbt View Post
A perfectly reasonable thing to do... on Mars.
Won't need the tube on Mars anyway....
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  #170  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2020, 5:16 PM
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What about the famous Straight of Belle Isle crossing?

It would span from the middle of nowhere to the middle of nowhere, and would cost zillions.


wookie

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Alas, the tunnel looks like a white elephant in the making. The site is 12 hours by road from St John's, Newfoundland's main town (of 180,000 people). A new road links Red Bay, on the mainland, to Cartwright, but neither place has links to anywhere very useful. Mr Kierans talks of 3,000 cars a day using the tunnel. That smacks of fantasy: the proposed bridge linking Sicily (pop: 5m) to Calabria (pop: 2m) is expected to carry fewer than 5,000 cars a day.
https://www.economist.com/the-americ...expensive-hole
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  #171  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2020, 5:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
What about the famous Straight of Belle Isle crossing?

It would span from the middle of nowhere to the middle of nowhere, and would cost zillions.
Wrong. Musk would rebrand the catapult and only sell it for billions.
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  #172  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2020, 2:16 AM
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Won't need the tube on Mars anyway....
Probably want something to keep dust out of the flight mechanisms and stations; you won't need to manufacture a vacuum though as that mostly comes for free.
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  #173  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 6:45 PM
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I heard those things are awfully loud
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  #174  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 8:25 PM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
You should tell that to all the investors, as the original sales pitch was that hyperloop would be cheaper. The longer time hyperloop has been in developed, the more of the original claims have been dropped. They're quietly forgetting the vacuum tube too, so it's essentially just a maglev, which we have had for decades including a commercial line.
There's even a maglev metro line in Berlin, Germany.
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  #175  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 8:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Gat-Train View Post
There's even a maglev metro line in Berlin, Germany.
Said “maglev metro” was shelved 29 years ago, as it was in the way of restoring a subway line following Germany’s (and Berlin’s) reunification - making it a true victim of history:
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The M-Bahn or Magnetbahn was an elevated Maglev train line operating in Berlin, Germany, experimentally from 1984 and in passenger operation from 1989 to 1991. The line was 1.6 kilometres (0.99 mi) in length, and featured three stations, two of which were newly constructed. Presumed to be the future of rail transit in Berlin, the line was built to fill a gap in the West Berlin public transport network created by the construction of the Berlin Wall. It was rendered redundant by the reunification of Berlin and was closed to enable reconstruction of the U2 line.

[...]

A public service eventually started in August 1989, although service was intermittent and not guaranteed, and fares were not charged. Official regular passenger service, as part of Berlin's integrated public transport system, started in July 1991.

By this time the Berlin Wall had fallen, something that could not have been predicted when construction started. It became desirable to re-establish the U-Bahn line that had previously been severed, requiring the removal of the M-Bahn from its right of way. The principal need for the M-Bahn had also been removed, as the area served by it was again easily accessible from the Potsdamer Platz station. Dismantling of the M-Bahn started only two months after its official opening, and was completed during February 1992. The U-Bahn connection between Gleisdreieck and Potsdamer Platz Stations was reinstated, becoming part of line U2.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Bahn
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  #176  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 9:08 PM
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I heard those things are awfully loud
It glides as softly as a cloud
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  #177  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2020, 5:00 AM
scryer scryer is offline
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First Passenger Test

Title says it all but you can check it out for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeyEbwguRls
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  #178  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2020, 5:07 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by scryer View Post
Title says it all but you can check it out for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeyEbwguRls
Test track at 100 mph in a straight line.

That is all but useless for the real world.
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  #179  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2020, 5:38 AM
acottawa acottawa is online now
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Test track at 100 mph in a straight line.

That is all but useless for the real world.
So slower than a Toyota Sienna, with fewer cup holders.
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  #180  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2020, 6:24 PM
scryer scryer is offline
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I guess we're going to be playing the game where any kind of progress gets shat on. Not saying that Hyperloops don't warrant criticism but not crediting the progress is immature to say the very least; and it shows the bias quite blatantly. After all before you can test any kind of turns or higher speeds, you have to test the technology at speeds that are already used in a straight line.

Now my criticism on it is if the first passenger test at this time is behind schedule or what further developments are in the works to see how they design the system to make turns. Personally I would be more impressed if they showcased a test at higher speeds but in the same breath I understand that the test was probably used to determine how human weight impacts speed and comfort, and whether there were discrepancies between their human tests and their tests with set weights used to represent people.

P.S: I can't wait to pen the response to the ad hominem logical fallacies I'm going to harvest . Not that I'm trolling but I know it's coming judging from the last time I participated in the "discussion".
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Last edited by scryer; Nov 10, 2020 at 6:38 PM.
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