Wanting Nice Things and Discrimination

[Coldrsx]

Respect of each other by us, our society and those this article speaks to is vital.

[Landlocked]

Originally Posted by Hallsy's Toupee

Chinatown resident blames cluster of social agencies for drug-addict 'ghetto'

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/poli...-addict-ghetto

I love the suggestion that the racism was unwarranted because she was Metis, not because racism is never warranted. Disgusting.

[itom 987]

Racism has nothing to do with alcohol and drug addiction.

A drunk is a drunk is a drunk, no matter what colour they are.

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by itom 987

Racism has nothing to do with alcohol and drug addiction.

A drunk is a drunk is a drunk, no matter what colour they are.

You might have added: sex or species (the bears that got drunk on fermenting apples when a truck rolled over).

[Landlocked]

Originally Posted by EdmTrekker

You might have added: sex or species (the bears that got drunk on fermenting apples when a truck rolled over).

Alcohol lowers inhibitions, it can't turn someone who doesn't hate whites into someone who does.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

And this is why City Centre Mall can't have nice things - plus referencing back to page 2 of this thread re: people shitting in public

https://twitter.com/_rossandrea/stat...71404910632960

Andrea Ross @_rossandrea
Saturday at CBC: someone pooped in the mall, they used some sort of XXL strength cleaner on it, now my eyes are burning and I can barely see

[Coldrsx]

Someone decided to smash the glass at the beautiful clock in from of the Westin.

Bravo.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by Hallsy's Toupee

And this is why City Centre Mall can't have nice things - plus referencing back to page 2 of this thread re: people shitting in public

https://twitter.com/_rossandrea/stat...71404910632960

Ugh. Code Brown. Happens all the time

[big W]

Originally Posted by 240glt

Ugh. Code Brown. Happens all the time

Until this sort of thing stops happening, or a bunch of puck kids loitering etc, City Centre retail will never do well. I have said this before multiple times in this thread, my wife and I live downtown and almost never shop at City Centre Mall as she does not feel safe. We go to Kingsway or Southgate (depending on what we are looking for) either by car or LRT. I think the mall should go back to taking a heavy hand all the time and ensure things are cleaned up. I don't have an issue with a gang of punks hanging out but a woman with a child will certainly avoid it. If you can't get women or families coming down to shop it (stats show women tend to drive spending in households significantly more then men) the retail will never be successful. We can all talk about the issues in society and how to best deal with it, but so long as you can't get people to spend their dollars in the area you will never have the money to help clean up the issues. In Southgate for example these things are out of site and out of mind and therefore the money will not benefit those that need it. But if you can get City Centre going, then the people in the area will benefit from jobs, more donations to those that need it etc. But if must start by cleaning up the place.

[Coldrsx]

Chicken and egg. More people will reduce those incidents, as well zero tolerance. We also need more reasons to go and certainly a few destination stores will help.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

City Centre Mall needs to be a premiere shopping destination as it was back in the 70s, not the Detroit mall it is now. It is the weekday worker bee traffic that is mostly keeping this place alive.

[noodlenoodle]

I honestly don't see that happening, not with the competition in the marketplace from other malls, in conjunction with the changing retail landscape & trends.

[240glt]

^ ECC is now, and will be for the forseeable future, retail ammenities for office tenants. There's nowhere close to the number of people living in the area to have a material effect on store sales and the parking issues just push people to other, more convenient malls. I don't know what they can do about th riff raff that hangs in the area, but it's always been there and I doubt it's going away.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by Hallsy's Toupee

City Centre Mall needs to be a premiere shopping destination as it was back in the 70s, not the Detroit mall it is now. It is the weekday worker bee traffic that is mostly keeping this place alive.

You know what's freakin' hilarious ? I dug up a bunch of newspaper articles on the development of ECC, all had headlines to the likes of "new development changing the face of downtown". And "new downtown mall revitalizes the core". Where have I heard that before lol

Your right it is the worker bee traffic keeping it alive. The worker bees are keeping 90% of downtown alive

[big W]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Chicken and egg. More people will reduce those incidents, as well zero tolerance. We also need more reasons to go and certainly a few destination stores will help.

The destination stores will not come unless you have the retail sales to get them to want to set up shop. I am a strong supporter of downtown Edmonton. Those who know me, know that I own and live downtown with my family including raising a child downtown. I work, eat and play for the most part in downtown Edmonton. What I don't do however is shop at the downtown mall. We as a family could for example go get that t-shirt at the Bay or whatever chain store that is found in City Centre, Kinsgway or Southgate for example and would prefer to do so downtown. Instead we go to the other 2 malls instead. We will go to Manulife or Commerce Place to shop sometimes for things or grab a coffee/hot chocolate etc but not in the mall. The difference is its all about perception of safety and if my wife and son do not feel safe and don't want to go there we don't. For example my son and I go swimming at the Y every weekend. When finished we will go get something in Commerce Place at Starbucks or Second Cup in Manulife but we don't generally go to the Mall or Tim Hortons on Jasper Ave. Why perception. In the mall instead of running around he starts to cling onto me in certain areas or he starts to whine that he wants to go home. In Manulife second cup no issues. We now have enough people living in the area and increased foot traffic especially during event nights at the arena. The problem is on the weekends my wife and sometimes my son do not feel safe there so we don't go and until this is no longer an issue it will always be like that.

[Black Star]

Originally Posted by Hallsy's Toupee

City Centre Mall needs to be a premiere shopping destination as it was back in the 70s, not the Detroit mall it is now. It is the weekday worker bee traffic that is mostly keeping this place alive.

And the 80s.......


As i attended Vic Comp in the late 80s and worked at Aldo shoes on the 3rd level back in the day. I can say the 80s at this mall was outstanding for traffic and it had a great Vibe.

What its turned into in the last 20 years is very sad indeed.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

^
I was just a kid but I do remember Edmonton Centre (now ECC East) in its heyday back in the 70s and it was definitely a cosmopolitan higher-end shopping centre. I wasn't downtown much during the 80s because as a teen I was lured by WEM. But when I started working downtown in the early 90s Edmonton Centre was still an upscale shopping destination, therefore I was able to witness its slow sad decline that commenced with the demise of Woodwards.

Originally Posted by 240glt

You know what's freakin' hilarious ? I dug up a bunch of newspaper articles on the development of ECC, all had headlines to the likes of "new development changing the face of downtown". And "new downtown mall revitalizes the core". Where have I heard that before lol

How far back were those articles?

[240glt]

^ from about 1976, as phase 1 had already opened and phase 2 was underway. We had tons of articles from the local papers, it's a little deja-vu when you hear all cheerleading for the arena, 'cause they're saying the exact same thing as they did about ECC 40 years ago.

But everything is cyclical, and one day the arena will be old tired and worn out too, and people will be looking for the next big thing to revitalize an area

My S.O. is born & bred and remembers when ECC/ Downtown was busier, livelier and everyone went there. They used to go for lunch from McNally to Al Frescos every day, & their families did all their shopping at Woodwards. It was the golden age of brass & exposed aggregate.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by big W

The destination stores will not come unless you have the retail sales to get them to want to set up shop. I am a strong supporter of downtown Edmonton. Those who know me, know that I own and live downtown with my family including raising a child downtown. I work, eat and play for the most part in downtown Edmonton. What I don't do however is shop at the downtown mall. We as a family could for example go get that t-shirt at the Bay or whatever chain store that is found in City Centre, Kinsgway or Southgate for example and would prefer to do so downtown. Instead we go to the other 2 malls instead. We will go to Manulife or Commerce Place to shop sometimes for things or grab a coffee/hot chocolate etc but not in the mall. The difference is its all about perception of safety and if my wife and son do not feel safe and don't want to go there we don't. For example my son and I go swimming at the Y every weekend. When finished we will go get something in Commerce Place at Starbucks or Second Cup in Manulife but we don't generally go to the Mall or Tim Hortons on Jasper Ave. Why perception. In the mall instead of running around he starts to cling onto me in certain areas or he starts to whine that he wants to go home. In Manulife second cup no issues. We now have enough people living in the area and increased foot traffic especially during event nights at the arena. The problem is on the weekends my wife and sometimes my son do not feel safe there so we don't go and until this is no longer an issue it will always be like that.

Thanks for this and always good to run into you. This perception is certainly not uncommon and there are a good number of us working to change this.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

Originally Posted by Black Star

I can say the 80s at this mall was outstanding for traffic and it had a great Vibe.

Originally Posted by 240glt

My S.O. is born & bred and remembers when ECC/ Downtown was busier, livelier and everyone went there.

And those two quotes, my friends, highlight precisely what is needed for the mall.

ECC and its predecessor malls (Edmonton Centre, Eatons Centre) may been revived interest in downtown retail in their day, but then suffered from the rise of WEM, the demise of its anchors (Eatons and Woodwards), bad economic times due to very long oil recession, loss of head offices, and Klein's cuts of the provincial government workforce. All of the positive downtown revitalization efforts from the past 10 years could well go for naught for similar reasons, no question.