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  #301  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2013, 6:19 AM
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Chicago103 Chicago103 is offline
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Originally Posted by AccraGhana View Post
I think that the enclave of Hamtramck would refute that.
Hamtramck seems like a cool place, it is basically an old school midwestern urban neighborhood that was preserved mostly because it was a separate municipality from albeit surrounded by the city of Detroit. Aside from downtown Detroit I think Hamtramck is just about the only other place in the greater Detroit area I could even contemplate living in but for a region of this size that is rather pathetically limiting for an urbanist.
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  #302  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2013, 9:14 AM
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LMich LMich is offline
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Originally Posted by Chicago103 View Post
Aside from downtown Detroit I think Hamtramck is just about the only other place in the greater Detroit area I could even contemplate living in but for a region of this size that is rather pathetically limiting for an urbanist.
So, how tall, exactly, is that horse you're sitting on? I almost can't hear you it's so tall.

Honestly, we need to come up with a name or rule for thread's like this, where a thread has gone on for so long that it either loops back around and thus becomes predictable, or it just becomes pointless. lol You know, like a Godwin's Law for SSP.
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  #303  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2013, 2:23 PM
AccraGhana AccraGhana is offline
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Originally Posted by Chicago103 View Post
Hamtramck seems like a cool place, it is basically an old school midwestern urban neighborhood that was preserved mostly because it was a separate municipality from albeit surrounded by the city of Detroit. Aside from downtown Detroit I think Hamtramck is just about the only other place in the greater Detroit area I could even contemplate living in but for a region of this size that is rather pathetically limiting for an urbanist.
And its ok that you feel that way . However, for a person like me, the Detroit region is a vastly understated region. There is about 6 million people in a 50 mile radius.....nearly 10 million in a 100 mile radius....international border, river, water.....It has everything that satisfies me except one thing....JOBS....which is the ONLY reason I moved from the city about 15 years ago. Not only did I like the Detroit area....but on the weekends I could shoot to Toronto, Chicago, Toledo, Cleveland, Pittsburgh etc....and come back the same day or the next. It might not be Chicago.....but not everyone wants or needs what Chicago has to have their urbanity needs fulfilled. As long as there is a density of women....I am happy.
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  #304  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2013, 2:55 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Originally Posted by Chicago103 View Post
Hamtramck seems like a cool place, it is basically an old school midwestern urban neighborhood that was preserved mostly because it was a separate municipality from albeit surrounded by the city of Detroit. Aside from downtown Detroit I think Hamtramck is just about the only other place in the greater Detroit area I could even contemplate living in but for a region of this size that is rather pathetically limiting for an urbanist.
Honestly, Hamtramck is kind of decayed, and not that great. It isn't dangerous, or ghetto, but it's kind of (very) slowly pointing in that direction. The south end, in particular, isn't too hot. It's still packed with people and new immigrants, though.

You're right that there's nothing remotely similar to Downtown Chicago/Near North Side anywhere in Metro Detroit, but there are healthy and walkable semi-urban and streetcar suburban enclaves. Because the city has done such an awful job of attracting young and prosperous people craving urbanity, a number of suburbs have stepped in and kind of "done the job" for them.

In particular, Birmimgham, Royal Oak and Ferndale have been extremely successful in turning their towns into mini yuppie/urbanist enclaves.
Birmingham is so successful it's frighteningly expensive (you don't get much for under a million) and Royal Oak is also successful, though more middle class and vaguely fratty. Ferndale is very hipster and gay-friendly.

And because Metro Detroit was developed before most metros, there's lots of old-school, semi-walkable suburbia in pretty good shape. Dearborn, Wyandotte, Berkley, Clawson, and the Grosse Pointes are examples of almost 100% walkable suburbs (ok, except for that awful suburban area in Mid-Dearborn where they built on Ford Motor property).
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  #305  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2013, 3:15 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by fflint View Post
^That map is based on 2000 Census data. There are a quarter-million fewer Detroiters today.
Yeah, I suspected it was from 2000 but wasn't sure. However, we're still talking about what Detroit was like just a decade ago, not generations.
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  #306  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2013, 3:22 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
I think people are being too sympathetic to the City of Detroit. Have any of you ever seen video of Detroit City Council meetings? If you take a look at them you will see that a lot of the troubles Detroit faces are due in large part to an incompetent city government.
Yes suburbanization, business flight, etc have had a huge negative impact on Detroit. But Detroit City Council and their fight against working with the region, etc have also been a huge huge part of the decline of Detroit.

And it is time they are called out to task about their inability to run a big city.

Detroit also needs a huge dose of regionalism where the city and suburbs have to work together whether they like it or not. It can't be done under Michigan law, but if it was possible, the State should just amalgamate Detroit and its suburbs and regionalize all major services and schools.
I'm not going to get into finger pointing about what has caused Detroit to get to where it's at today... But it's well beyond the fault of the Detroit City Council. So much attention is given to the city council by the media because it is a circus, but in reality the amount of media attention they are given relative to the actual power they have is way out of proportion.

ETA: An example of this is how during the Kwame Kilpatrick reign of terror the city council didn't even have the power to remove him from office. They could only request the governor to do it, but the governor is not legally obligated to oblige the request.
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  #307  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2013, 3:35 PM
AccraGhana AccraGhana is offline
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
I'm not going to get into finger pointing about what has caused Detroit to get to where it's at today... But it's well beyond the fault of the Detroit City Council. So much attention is given to the city council by the media because it is a circus, but in reality the amount of media attention they are given relative to the actual power they have is way out of proportion.

ETA: An example of this is how during the Kwame Kilpatrick reign of terror the city council didn't even have the power to remove him from office. They could only request the governor to do it, but the governor is not legally obligated to oblige the request.
I will be your Huckleberry.

And therein lies a big part of Detroit's problem....which is the local media. Why would the media give such undue attention? Its because stories of that nature that displays apparent "dysfunction"......is what a lot of people in the local area gravitate to and the media is in the business of feeding the market what it wants to see in order to get the ratings and revenues. If people were turned off by stories of Detroit dysfunction and problems.....the media would not give it as much attention as they do. In turn, the media attention then fuels more problems for the city because it amounts to negative advertising for the city, which is picked up by national media making it harder for the region to attract what it needs due to the image of the city.

What Detroit really needs is positive reinforcement instead of the negative reinforcement that has plagued the region the last 50 years. I can remember going to Atlanta for college in the 80's and realizing that Atlanta had many of the same problems that Detroit had in regards to crime....as it once was the murder capital and lets not forget the child killings down there. However, what I found when I went down there is that despite those things the natives all seemed like they worked for the Atlanta convention and businesses bureau. I would read media accounts where reporters were always overselling the area trying to make it seem bigger and more important that the area was at that time (the metro area was only 2.5 million people then). Atlanta created a POSITIVE self fulfilling prophecy for itself and it eventually became what it falsely sold itself as at the time. Detroit was the complete opposite. Always focusing on the negative and always embracing its "worst ratings" and seeing the city as the "arm pit" of Michigan if not the nation.....and guess what.....it became that because that it what was marketed. When Detroit still had about 1.25 million people....it was bombarded with negative media attention and out state negativity. The Detroit of 1.25 million people was much better than the Detroit of today and locals treating the city back then, like it was the worst place in America (when it was not), helped to foster it becoming just that.

Last edited by AccraGhana; Mar 8, 2013 at 3:51 PM.
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  #308  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2013, 2:17 AM
hudkina hudkina is offline
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Originally Posted by Chicago103 View Post
Hamtramck seems like a cool place, it is basically an old school midwestern urban neighborhood that was preserved mostly because it was a separate municipality from albeit surrounded by the city of Detroit. Aside from downtown Detroit I think Hamtramck is just about the only other place in the greater Detroit area I could even contemplate living in but for a region of this size that is rather pathetically limiting for an urbanist.
You might then also like Southwest Detroit. It's essentially at the same level as Hamtramck, though it covers a much larger area. Some neighborhoods are seeing the beginnings of Detroit-style gentrification such as Hubbard Farms.
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