Evidence is mounting that Apple has picked a location for its new campus

[jtown,man]

Google mappin' Raleigh for the first time. Although the city is incredibly suburban, I am quite impressed by the amount of urban development in the city.

[mhays]

That is HORRIFIC. Even by suburban standards.

It seems to match the middle-income nature of these jobs ($75k?). But maybe they're doing what some have suspected Amazon wants to do...find somewhere for the people who want something very different from the San Francisco area.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Based on what I read somewhere, I'm wondering if it's this site here, which is actually in Morrisville, not Cary:
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8496...1e3?force=lite

[xzmattzx]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

I just looked it up on Google maps. It looks horrible.

And what is up with all those little neighborhood names? I guess those are really the names of all the different tract housing developments and apartments?

Take a looksy:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ca....7811169?hl=en

You obviously aren't familiar with East Coast suburbs. It's the same here, and all throughout Maryland, and on Long Island, and in Virginia, etc.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by xzmattzx

You obviously aren't familiar with East Coast suburbs. It's the same here, and all throughout Maryland, and on Long Island, and in Virginia, etc.

Long Island does not have many named, master planned suburban subdivisions like you get around Raleigh.

Inner LI is old and predates that era. Outer LI is more random homes than large-scale developments.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by The North One

Only thing I'm liking is the tree coverage but that exists everywhere in the eastern US.

The tree coverage is heavier west of the Fall Line. East of the Fall Line the soil changes to a sandy soil, good for growing crops, west of it it is an iron rich clay [rusty red due to oxidation of the iron], which is really bad stuff for agricultural purposes. East of the line, the forests have been cleared more extensively than west which is where most of the urban development has occurred.

The Triangle, Charlotte and Atlanta are all heavily forested cities.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Long Island does not have many named, master planned suburban subdivisions like you get around Raleigh.

Inner LI is old and predates that era. Outer LI is more random homes than large-scale developments.

LI is the birthplace of the modern master planned 'burbs...Levitttown.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

The tree coverage is heavier west of the Fall Line. East of the Fall Line the soil changes to a sandy soil, good for growing crops, west of it it is an iron rich clay [rusty red due to oxidation of the iron], which is really bad stuff for agricultural purposes. East of the line, the forests have been cleared more extensively than west which is where most of the urban development has occurred.

The Triangle, Charlotte and Atlanta are all heavily forested cities.

Yeah that makes the suburbs in these cities more attractive than they would be in, for example, Dallas or Indianapolis.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by JManc

LI is the birthplace of the modern master planned 'burbs...Levitttown.

OK, but Levittown has no such characteristics. It doesn't have named subdivisions and isn't a master planned community. And Levittown is built completely different, more like a cross between the street grid and modern sprawl. There are no cul-de-sacs, winding streets and the like in Levittown.

Levittown, at street level, today, looks like any older 1940's community on the East Coast. The homes are all random and different (because most have been rebuilt). It would be considered an in-town historic neighborhood in the context of Raleigh.

Levittown is more notable for being the first "real suburbia" in the postwar era (aka not tied to rail lines or accessibility into the regional center).

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by BG918

Yeah that makes the suburbs in these cities more attractive than they would be in, for example, Dallas or Indianapolis.

Raleigh metro is actually quite pretty, IMO. Tree coverage is as good as it gets, and topography is variable and interesting. Lots of little creeks and waterways. Driving down the freeways you would think you're in a thickly forested wilderness.

But it has to be contender for most sprawly metro on earth.

[Don't Be That Guy]

Containment
Area for
Relocated
Yankees

I'm down there for work on occasion and have to say that I'm not a fan, which is contrary to many other Pennsylvanians who seem to love the Raleigh area. It's a perfectly anodyne place that leaves no lasting impression. But that's been my takeaway from most cities in North Carolina, excluding Asheville and Wilmington. It's perfect for a corporate campus.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Crawford

OK, but Levittown has no such characteristics. It doesn't have named subdivisions and isn't a master planned community. And Levittown is built completely different, more like a cross between the street grid and modern sprawl. There are no cul-de-sacs, winding streets and the like in Levittown.

Levittown, at street level, today, looks like any older 1940's community on the East Coast. The homes are all random and different (because most have been rebuilt). It would be considered an in-town historic neighborhood in the context of Raleigh.

Levittown is more notable for being the first "real suburbia" in the postwar era (aka not tied to rail lines or accessibility into the regional center).

Levittown was most certainly a master planned community and the one in LI was merely the first of a series built by a developer (Levitt) much in the same way developers build them to this day. Modern suburbs are direct descendants of these grid style suburbs. And like anything else we create, they evolve over time...we added cul-de-sacs, bigger lots and meandering streets. People (not me) like cul-de-sacs because they reduce traffic flow on their street.

And those 1940's and '50's communities on the East Coast are likely to be master planned or built by a single developer. My grandparents lived in just such a community. Just on a much smaller scale. They look quaint and established now because of the decades of tree growth and people have remodeled and updated their homes over the years.

[llamaorama]

That location in Morrisville would be close to Lenovo and Cisco. Red Hat and Citrix are in downtown Raleigh.

What's funny is while they obviously share a talent pool, Apple has basically nothing in common with those other companies in terms of the product it sells.

Tech companies like to concentrate in the worst cities IMO. Either very expensive coastal locations like Seattle where you must sacrifice your first born to live in a cardboard box, or the most plastic, sprawliest, faux-liberal red state 'hotspots' like Austin, Salt Lake City, Raleigh, etc. Conversely, it makes me very happy how Microsoft now a has presence in St. Louis.

[JManc]

You had me until you included Austin in your little rant. "Faux" liberal it is not. It's just not over the top with the silliness like SF.

[Nomad9]

This isn’t really a surprise given Apple’s evident preference for suburbia. It’s the perfect place for a big tech campus: relatively cheap land, strong talent base (other tech businesses plus several top universities in the region), warm weather, not far from DC/NYC by plane, and room for expansion.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

That location in Morrisville would be close to Lenovo and Cisco. Red Hat and Citrix are in downtown Raleigh.

What's funny is while they obviously share a talent pool, Apple has basically nothing in common with those other companies in terms of the product it sells.

Tech companies like to concentrate in the worst cities IMO. Either very expensive coastal locations like Seattle where you must sacrifice your first born to live in a cardboard box, or the most plastic, sprawliest, faux-liberal red state 'hotspots' like Austin, Salt Lake City, Raleigh, etc. Conversely, it makes me very happy how Microsoft now a has presence in St. Louis.

Research Triangle Park located in what you call a "faux-liberal red state hotspot" was created by the state, local governments and with Duke and N.C. State in the 1950s.

Some facts and figures:
*Today it has developed 22.5 million square feet on 7,000 acres
*Home to 250 companies that employ over 50,000 FT people and 10,000 contractors
*over 3,500 patents awarded
*Many of the prescribed and OTC drugs you take were researched and developed at RTP
*50% of the regional population holds college degrees
*8,500 students that graduate each year from local Tier 1 Research Universities like Duke, UNC, and N.C State. [42,000 graduates/year in the colleges in the area combined]
*Cisco employs 5,000
*IBM employs 14,000

That's just in the park, the numbers grow outside the park boundaries.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Don't Be That Guy

Containment
Area for
Relocated
Yankees

I'm down there for work on occasion and have to say that I'm not a fan, which is contrary to many other Pennsylvanians who seem to love the Raleigh area. It's a perfectly anodyne place that leaves no lasting impression. But that's been my takeaway from most cities in North Carolina, excluding Asheville and Wilmington. It's perfect for a corporate campus.

exactly my opinion with exactly those two exclusions for major nc cities. asheville and wilmington have real personality to spare, both are favorites.

otoh if there is one thing apple likes its a veneer of genericness, so that region is a great call for them.

[BrownTown]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

Tech companies like to concentrate in the worst cities IMO. Either very expensive coastal locations like Seattle where you must sacrifice your first born to live in a cardboard box, or the most plastic, sprawliest, faux-liberal red state 'hotspots' like Austin, Salt Lake City, Raleigh, etc. Conversely, it makes me very happy how Microsoft now a has presence in St. Louis.

They are going where the talent is (or wants to go). I think it's good to have one campus in a big urban area and one in a suburban area because for a lot of people it's an either/or decision as many suburban people wouldn't be caught dead in a city like San Francisco and many urban people feel the same way about a sun belt suburb. Might as well have offices in both areas so you can appeal to both kinds of people.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by xzmattzx

You obviously aren't familiar with East Coast suburbs.

I most certainly am not.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

exactly my opinion with exactly those two exclusions for major nc cities. asheville and wilmington have real personality to spare, both are favorites.

otoh if there is one thing apple likes its a veneer of genericness, so that region is a great call for them.

Agreed. I wouldn't have liked Apple to "spoil" Wilmington or Asheville so that's good news. (Loved Wilmington, never got a chance to visit Asheville yet - it's kind of out of the way for me - but I've heard/seen enough about it to know it's a little gem.)

And I agree with mhays, I've always thought it was a no brainer that whenever a San Francisco firm wants an HQ2, they shouldn't put it in a place like Boston or Seattle, but rather a city that complements the one that has HQ1 by having the opposite advantages: cheap real estate, tons of suburbia, tons of room, easy access to SFHs with backyards, short commutes, warm weather.

For white collar attraction/retention, that's the ideal setup. Instead of losing people to the competition because they're fed up with having to live in a closet in the Bay Area and can't afford to even think about starting a family there, you can at least keep that talent within the company by shipping them to your Dallas/Atlanta HQ instead.