[Burnaby] The Amazing Brentwood | 15 Towers | 186m | 56 flrs | U/C & Proposed

[GilmoreStation]

Originally Posted by Vin

Explain Olympic Village. The condos built after the initial Village-phase were a lot more affordable but still took forever to sell. Very few retail there.
Edmonds Station condos/townhomes, etc - also took forever to sell.

However, in a matter of one or couple of days:
Solo - Sold out
Amazing Brentwood - Sold out
Marine Gateway - Sold out
Station Square - Sold out

Jebby is totally wrong on this, he doesnt know what hes talking about.

But pricing also plays a huge factor, overpriced condos like the ones in the City of Lougheed will still take forever to sell out.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by VarBreStr18

I cant agree more that known retailers will persuades buyers. If all macro factors being equal in two locations ( close to transit, close to highways, close to downtown, close to employment ....) buyers tend to choose to be near retailers they like. Such as a favorite grocery store, restaurant, Uniglo, Catus ,Earls, even a bank makes a difference. I would choose Brentwood over Metrotown simply because so much easier to access Costco.

That's a gross over-generalization, IMO.

Fact of the matter is that most people who can afford to buy condos at either of those locations will more than likely have cars enabling them to drive to the other location if needs be, for like, shopping at Costco (which requires a car, anyway) or going to a club or a late night eatery (also requiring a car depending on how late one is).

Just because you would prioritize it over other factors doesn't mean that most other buyers will as well.

The other fact of the matter is that both locations are at major transit stops and transportation/roadway hubs, which are undeniable pull factors for a lot of people buying residences in the 'burbs.

The presence of retailers is a nice incentive but when your tower is located within walking distance of the second largest mall in Canada, for example, it becomes a moot point relative to other factors.

[VarBreStr18]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

That's a gross over-generalization, IMO.

Fact of the matter is that most people who can afford to buy condos at either of those locations will more than likely have cars enabling them to drive to the other location if needs be, for like, shopping at Costco (which requires a car, anyway) or going to a club or a late night eatery (also requiring a car depending on how late one is).

Just because you would prioritize it over other factors doesn't mean that most other buyers will as well.

The other fact of the matter is that both locations are at major transit stops and transportation/roadway hubs, which are undeniable pull factors for a lot of people buying residences in the 'burbs.

The presence of retailers is a nice incentive but when your tower is located within walking distance of the second largest mall in Canada, for example, it becomes a moot point relative to other factors.

Precisely because people who can afford these locations may have some money , but may not have "time". Why spend your precious weekends driving around in your car to get chores done , that includes stock up at Costco to save so that you can afford mortgage payment. I just use COstco as an example , other people favourite retail may Save On , or simply being close to a neighbourhood pub. This is simply to illustrate the point that known retails would persuade buyers.

[sburnaby33]

Originally Posted by Jebby

Escala and Aviara have no retail component, right?

They do not have a retail component. However, the proximity to retail such as Gilmore Place and Brentwood was a factor in my decision, but not the main one. It is but one of a laundry list of items I was looking for. Being close to family, great parks, transportation hubs, grocery stores, Downtown, the North Shore, beaches, work, childhood memories, was well worth the price I paid. Quality of life was paramount. It is comforting to know that, after a long day at work, I can walk five minutes to Save-On Foods and grab a few items to make dinner instead of driving 15 minutes. Most importantly, the thought that I could be home in 10 minutes from work was the Number 1 consideration. Avoiding traffic congestion and the sea of vehicles on the local bridges/freeways was huge. I calculated that if my commute went up to 2 hours a day, I would lose a year of my life to being stuck in traffic. Good retail is a part of someone's decision to purchase in an area, but not the only one.

Given the nature of my job I wanted to find a place that would be close enough to the centre of the region, but far enough away from it. Once the next two SOLO Towers are built, Concord gets built out, and Brentwood 1 to 3 are live, Lougheed and Willingdon will be that much more busy. Indeed, during the summer months I would not like having music from an outdoor restaurant lounge forcing me to close my window at night. To others this vibe at Brentwood is exactly what they are looking for.

[GilmoreStation]

Originally Posted by sburnaby33

They do not have a retail component. However, the proximity to retail such as Gilmore Place and Brentwood was a factor in my decision, but not the main one. It is but one of a laundry list of items I was looking for. Being close to family, great parks, transportation hubs, grocery stores, Downtown, the North Shore, beaches, work, childhood memories, was well worth the price I paid. Quality of life was paramount. It is comforting to know that, after a long day at work, I can walk five minutes to Save-On Foods and grab a few items to make dinner instead of driving 15 minutes. Most importantly, the thought that I could be home in 10 minutes from work was the Number 1 consideration. Avoiding traffic congestion and the sea of vehicles on the local bridges/freeways was huge. I calculated that if my commute went up to 2 hours a day, I would lose a year of my life to being stuck in traffic. Good retail is a part of someone's decision to purchase in an area, but not the only one.

Given the nature of my job I wanted to find a place that would be close enough to the centre of the region, but far enough away from it. Once the next two SOLO Towers are built, Concord gets built out, and Brentwood 1 to 3 are live, Lougheed and Willingdon will be that much more busy. Indeed, during the summer months I would not like having music from an outdoor restaurant lounge forcing me to close my window at night. To others this vibe at Brentwood is exactly what they are looking for.

The lack of retail near Gilmore station makes those condos near Gilmore 20%-30% cheaper than those condos near Brentwood station

[VarBreStr18]

Originally Posted by GilmoreStation

The lack of retail near Gilmore station makes those condos near Gilmore 20%-30% cheaper than those condos near Brentwood station

This tells us that people like retails , and don't mind paying more for convenience . The price difference is driven by demand.

[sburnaby33]

Originally Posted by GilmoreStation

The lack of retail near Gilmore station makes those condos near Gilmore 20%-30% cheaper than those condos near Brentwood station

That they do. I am not denying that. At Solo a true ine bedroom is going for 520+ while a one bedroom near Gilmore is going for 460+. Lougheed and Willingdon is the centre of the region and prices go down the further you move away from that. Retail does make a difference in price.

For me I was swayed by other factors such as quietness and being away from noise, but still with the need of being close to retail and to work.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by sburnaby33

For me I was swayed by other factors such as quietness and being away from noise, but still with the need of being close to retail and to work.

Same here. I like that I live in a quiet area (I grew up among the clone houses of suburbia) yet it's a short walk to the Skytrain and a 5 min ride takes me to either Metrotown or downtown New West.

[Marshal]

None of this addresses the order of construction. I have significant input on this, in terms of constructability and client interests, and the answer is almost always the same: economy. Now this includes many factors of which some can explain the way Brentwood is being built the way it is. The base/retail component is large, takes up a giant area of the site and is very complex compared to most tower base structures. For reasons of scheduling activities and components that require large construction staging grounds, for the sake of scheduling the order of construction activities according to trades and the precedent order of work items - adding tower construction on top would be either unworkable (without loss) or prohibitively expensive.

Of course all of these things boil down to the same issues: time and money, which boils down to money. The construction team is limited by their own resources, and what is possible with the physical constraints and the constraints of work order, and of time/duration.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by Marshal

None of this addresses the order of construction. I have significant input on this, in terms of constructability and client interests, and the answer is almost always the same: economy. Now this includes many factors of which some can explain the way Brentwood is being built the way it is. The base/retail component is large, takes up a giant area of the site and is very complex compared to most tower base structures. For reasons of scheduling activities and components that require large construction staging grounds, for the sake of scheduling the order of construction activities according to trades and the precedent order of work items - adding tower construction on top would be either unworkable (without loss) or prohibitively expensive.

Of course all of these things boil down to the same issues: time and money, which boils down to money. The construction team is limited by their own resources, and what is possible with the physical constraints and the constraints of work order, and of time/duration.

Pretty much all of this.

It all boils down to the fact that this project has a considerably complex retail podium/ plaza that's atypical of the standard retail podium in a conventional tower-on-top-of-a-podium model of modern residential condo towers, and in this respect, that it seems to be taking longer at this stage shouldn't be as much of a surprise on the one hand, and on the other hand, that they would expect to get more resolution and completion before they start on the towers themselves is not unexpected.

But as you correctly pointed out it all boils down to schedules, timelines, resource management and most basic of all, time and money.

The notion of completing one part of the project over other parts first, ostensibly so it can be used for marketing purposes and irrespective of what the actual construction schedule is which works better for the contractors, is a non-starter.

[GilmoreStation]

It's been announced before that the retail component will open about a year earlier before the residential tower

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by GilmoreStation

It's been announced before that the retail component will open about a year earlier before the residential tower

....probably because it will be completed before the towers are done.

As has happened with Solo across the street.
Some of the retail on the podium of tower 2 is already open while the tower is still a couple of months away from getting done.

It's logic.
For one thing, they're building the buildings from down to up - so anything lower down will be completed before anything higher up, obviously, - and the retail functions are typically completely separate from the residential components and program of the building allowing them to stagger the opening of each this way.

If those were residential podiums or podiums with residences or townhome units, then its highly unlikely they could stagger the opening like that especially if they shared any egresses, parking, corridors, and other facilities.

[djmk]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

Pretty much all of this.

It all boils down to the fact that this project has a considerably complex retail podium/ plaza that's atypical of the standard retail podium in a conventional tower-on-top-of-a-podium model of modern residential condo towers,

in these complex structures, how are the strata fees and liability separated from the residential and retail? I would imagine there would be lots of common space or spaces adjoining that need co-operation.

If i was a resident, i would be scared if I was responsible for complex engineering of my neighbour that I might be sick of..

[officedweller]

There are often lawsuits in high-profile mixed use developments regarding sharing of expenses:

Shangri-La:
https://www.biv.com/article/2013/5/s...ue-developers/

Fairmont Pacific Rim:
http://lmlaw.ca/2014/04/bc-supreme-c...e-strata-plan/

[jlousa]

Pretty well the wording will be in favour of the commercial component which the developer tends to hang on to. So yes the residents get the shaft so to speak and some of times (rich owners in luxury stratas) it ends up in court and more reasonable arrangements are made, but lots of times in big multi strata projects such as this one will be, each strata doesn't have the financial means to challenge the larger developer and their fees end up subsidizing the commercial component to some extant.

[djmk]

thanks and yikes

[HelloKitty]

Originally Posted by sburnaby33

That they do. I am not denying that. At Solo a true ine bedroom is going for 520+ while a one bedroom near Gilmore is going for 460+. Lougheed and Willingdon is the centre of the region and prices go down the further you move away from that. Retail does make a difference in price.

For me I was swayed by other factors such as quietness and being away from noise, but still with the need of being close to retail and to work.

Same here. I didn't want to be right where it is and be bothered by the noise if there's a big event in the evening like in the plaza area. So I chose to be far enough but also near enough to Amazing Brentwood that everything is within walking distance to get things done without bothering with the hassles and risks of driving and parking. Soon enough it might feel/become easier walking from Gilmore to Brentwood, and later, Brentwood to the Heights (yay).

[burnaby88]

At the point in time, the mall is pretty much dead retail wise aside from the senior citizens who sit around all day in the Food Court – and are complaining the most bitterly – no longer have families to feed and clothe; in short, John Doe and his pals are not that good for mall business (they are all on fixed incomes but live in million dollar homes, plus they are just CHEAP)

The entire Brentwood neighborhood is aging, and starting to “turn around,” as in filling up with young families – who will eventually shop at the new retailers and restaurants to come.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by burnaby88

The entire Brentwood neighborhood is aging, and starting to “turn around,” as in filling up with young families – who will eventually shop at the new retailers and restaurants to come.

Part of the area has been young for at least 15 years. The shoppers at Save-On have always struck me as young and professional. But what you say was absolutely true of the single-family homes in Brentwood Park.

I say was because the turn-around started some time ago. When we moved into Brentwood Park ten years ago, it was as you say. The park was virtually empty of kids; I am told that there were so few that the city considered removing the playground (this past summer they rebuilt it instead). Almost every time a house sold (and we looked at a lot), it was by a senior - typically an elderly woman whose husband had died.

Six to eight years ago things really started to change. Many of the houses sold; on our street today there are only a few seniors. Toddlers started showing up in the park. Today those kids are older. Halloween has picked up: the past few years we've had hundreds of kids come around. The park is occupied whenever the weather is sunny: parents with kids, teens at the basketball court, people playing tennis, students practising musical instruments, young couples under the trees. I see kids and young people on bicycles, something I never saw before (though that's also part of a different trend). And of course there is the frat house.

It's been long enough that we are well on our way to repeating the cycle, with kids growing up and parents growing older. In a dozen or so years it may be a neighbourhood of seniors again.

[Geof]

The trick-or-treat onlaught maps provide some actual data about the number of children per dwelling: 2016 and 2015. Both are based on 2011 census figures, but with tweaks to account for patterns in population change.

From the CBC article:

The onslaught estimator divides the number of trick-or-treaters on a given block by the number doorbells in the area, giving residents a clue as to how much candy they can expect to give out.

The model predicts a substantial increase in Brentwood Park west of Delta, and a decline east of Delta. It predicts fewer in the towers south of Lougheed. Keep in mind that this shows kids-per-household, not kids-per-km^2, so there might well be quite a few of kids in those towers even though most owners are childless.