The old suburban office park is the new American ghost town

[fflint]

Let's get one thing out there: there simply are not enough "artists" to fill America's increasingly undesirable suburban office parks. And there won't be enough in the foreseeable future, either.

During America's aberrant post-war abandonment of central cities, artists of various types did indeed flood into elegant if decrepit urban villages from Lower Manhattan to North Beach. Painters, photographers, writers, musicians, and designers of all types did indeed find very cheap rents for large work-live spaces with soaring ceilings and huge windows, within a physically tight-knit community of like-minded types.

But there were two very distinct dynamics behind that phenomenon that are no longer in effect. One was the opportunity to move into formerly desirable urban spaces, then on the skids because urban living had temporarily lost its cachet among the vast majority of Americans of all classes and races. Everyone here pretty much understands that.

What many apparently don't understand is the other dynamic behind the bohemian colonization of America's best urban neighborhoods: America's post-war period of notably widespread and increasing economic prosperity created the economic security necessary for a relatively large segment of the population to choose to live the bohemian life in the first place. If they found themselves starving or homeless, there was usually someone who had excess to share. And if worst came to worst, they could re-enter the capitalist economy and save up enough money to go back to the good life in Greenwich Village or wherever eventually.

In today's America, the best urban neighborhoods are in very high demand, among the upper echelons specifically, and the decline of widespread prosperity in America has created an economic insecurity that strongly attenuates the size of the population that can live in boho splendor.

Those office parks won't be filling up with latter-day Andy Warhols and Jack Kerouacs and Fran Leibowitzes and Lou Reeds. I think they're infinitely more likely to become storage spaces or aquaponic farming operations, uses more suited to severely devalued real estate in tepid economic times.

[mstem58]

americans have a love affair with their automobiles....I don't see that changing....they want their house in the suburbs where they can live close enough to their neighbors, and keep up with the Jones', but far enough away so they can have their privacy.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Some of these dead office parks could probably see adaptive reuse as megachurches. It's quite common in dying shopping centers.

Uh, we do not need more megachurches.

[the urban politician]

Well, Chicago suburban office vacancies are at their lowest in 7 years.

This despite the flood of companies moving downtown. So let's not make this what it isn't.

The beauty of our downtowns booming is, it doesn't necessarily spell the death of suburbia. It's a virtuous cycle that benefits the whole region. This is unlike 50 years ago, where the suburban boom threatened to gut and rot away our cities.

[ssiguy]

These buildings will see new uses such as post-secondary, small retail/services, studios or even residential. These office buildings may be empty but they are still relatively new which means the building is in good physical shape as is the infrastructure.

These are not abandoned buildings of old cities which often have structural problems and decaying infrastructure so the transition from one use to the other will be both easier and cheaper.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by mstem58

americans have a love affair with their automobiles....I don't see that changing....they want their house in the suburbs where they can live close enough to their neighbors, and keep up with the Jones', but far enough away so they can have their privacy.

Friend, you need to get out of smallbany more. And I don't mean down to Saugerties. America is changing.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Friend, you need to get out of smallbany more. And I don't mean down to Saugerties. America is changing.

No it's not.

You need to get out of the city more. You know, where pretty much everybody lives.

[dc_denizen]

I think it can be proven that nationwide, more dollars are being invested in cities (and in city-mimicing suburban developments) than in auto-oriented exurban office park type developments. ergo, the era of unfettered auto-oriented development is over in much of the country (at least on a population weighted basis).

Look at the Dallas suburbs for example..Addison, Plano, northern parts of Dallas, etc. Look at DC: minimal growth in sprawlville, VA while the core city grows at 18k/year, and real estate values closer to the beltway are through the roof.

[dc_denizen]

Originally Posted by Ryanrule

yeah im one of those people, and work for a company based in deerfield that will consider a move soon.

the problem is upper management is filled with boomers, and they like their 5 minute ride to office/home/golf course/bank. at least i work remote.

but they dont have much choice anymore. its not 2009 anymore, and tech workers can be VERY choosy.

For about 30 years, our entire country was planned to facilitate golf outings for corporate management. thank god this is no longer the case.

golf=the ultimate cause of sprawl

[chris08876]

Golf would be fun if the balls where grenades and depending on how you hit it, it would change the land and so a player must adapt. Also, technique is a must and it would weed out the good players from the bad. It would also be exiting to hear on a THX certified system. Good bass, good flying limbs (which is why you need a good tv with a high refresh rate), and lastly, get the spanish soccer announcer. " Booooommmmmmmmmm!!!!!!

[fflint]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

No it's not.

Yes, yes it is. Young people not only are driving less than older Americans did and still do, younger Americans also aren't getting drivers licenses at the same rate prior generations did at the same age.

[memph]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

These buildings will see new uses such as post-secondary, small retail/services, studios or even residential. These office buildings may be empty but they are still relatively new which means the building is in good physical shape as is the infrastructure.

These are not abandoned buildings of old cities which often have structural problems and decaying infrastructure so the transition from one use to the other will be both easier and cheaper.

Eh dunno, I think lower rent office space is the most likely use for most of these. Being cheap is not the only thing that matters, the building still needs to be useable for something.

For the typical suburban office building, you're talking about something like 3-10 floors with large floor-plates. Upper floors are no good for retail and large floor plates are no good for residential (too far from windows) unless maybe you build air-shafts (not free).

For the older formerly cheap and run-down urban buildings, the upper floors typically did not convert to retail either, but residential or just different kinds of office/cultural space, and they typically had smaller floor plates and better locations.

As for post-secondary, that could work, but there's only so much demand for new suburban post secondary campuses.

I might be wrong but I suspect in most cities suburban office space, while it may be cheaper and higher vacancy than urban office space, still doesn't command lower rents than suburban residential, so I don't think we're at the point where they'd bother with the expensive of getting retrofitted into residential space. The location of typical office parks is often not that great for residential, surrounded by parking lots, arterial roads and highways, often with little retail and poor transit. I guess you could try to bring in retail as part of the conversion but the siting of many office buildings is not quite ideal. The ideal location for retail in the suburbs would be along arterials and the office buildings are often a bit tucked behind the arterials along lower traffic volume collector roads.

[Shawn]

I am sure most other paintball players have thought this, but someone needs to buy one of those empty two-floor "atrium" style malls from the late 70s-mid 80s and convert it into the world's best paintball course.