Bank Street Subway | Fantasy

[Clinton Desveaux]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I believe that there has been a proposal to redevelop 1063 Bank and the abandoned building at 1125 Bank is begging for redevelopment.

Then there is the big one, the redevelopment of Billings Bridge Shopping Centre, that a subway would definitely speed up. Ottawa is ripe for this as we see redevelopment already proceeding at Elmvale, Westgate and Lincoln Fields.

All of these Bank Street projects are often more attractive than sites on the Confederation Line particularly going east which follows the Queensway. The latter often runs through pedestrian unfriendly wastelands. Bank Street runs through walkable neighbourhoods, has well established shopping throughout, and attractions including Lansdowne Park, the Rideau Canal and the parks along the Rideau River.

It would be an interesting news story if the Sens moved to Billings Bridge as part of a major redevelopment because that would most likely speed up timelines for the Bank Street O-Train Tunnel concept

[Clinton Desveaux]

Originally Posted by JHikka

So then...

• 1335 Bank
• 1050-1060 Bank
• 890-900 Bank
• 852 Bank
• 99 Fifth
• Southminster
• 178-200 Isabella
• 114 Isabella
• 30-48 Chamberlain
• 24-30 Pretoria
• Future Lansdowne Residential

All of these are examples of increasing density along this corridor south of the 417.

You have placed a lot on the table for people to consider

[Clinton Desveaux]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Downtown isn't the only destination. A subway would make Lansdowne a far more attractive destination. Same with the bars and the theatre in OOS. More destinations could be acceded at Lansdowne and Billings to attract more ridership. A Bank Subway would also make major hospitals in Alta Vista far easier to reach for the population of Centretown and the Glebe.

The people I've interviewed on the subject feel the same way you do. They view it as a Bank Street corridor and Ottawa South issue not just a "downtown issue."

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Clinton Desveaux

The people I've interviewed on the subject feel the same way you do. They view it as a Bank Street corridor and Ottawa South issue not just a "downtown issue."

As I pointed out before, this would be a major city building project for that central corridor and if done correctly, the whole south end of the city. It affectively would become the north-south Queensway for the city, since no road is capable of serving that purpose without ruining much of Ottawa. This is why the Airport parkway has never been twinned. A big step forward as we try to move away from a car culture. The weaknesses and limitations of the Trillium Line and SE Transitway can never accomplish that.

The original N-S LRT project, despite its flaws, was visionary since it was attempting to move people out of cars. The original O-Train demonstrated that rail even away from downtown could be successful and attract new riders, and the original N-S plan was to demonstrate that suburban rail could be fully integrated into new neighbourhoods.

A Bank Street subway is potentially equally visionary and finally a proper replacement for the failed N-S project. It is definitely a 'build it and people will come' project and further 'build it and developers will come' since there are many attractive and already documented properties that are ripe for future redevelopment and intensification that will further improve the urban fabric of the city. Often scattered towers in suburban or previously abandoned locations cannot accomplish this because of the lack of existing amenities.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Clinton Desveaux

Ottawa Gatineau population is expect to hit 1.8 million sometime between 2028 and 2031 not 2046.

Says who?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

The Calgary CMA at 1.5m population will be running 3 lines through downtown, while the Ottawa-Gatineau CMA at over 1.8m people in 2046 will only have 2 lines running through downtown. Not to mention Trillium barely counts as a full-fledged LRT line under its current configuration, so at best it counts as half a line.

Number of lines to downtown is an incredibly dumb arbitrary metric. Says absolutely nothing about the quality and capacity of those lines and utilization of transit. If that's the metric, let's put a streetcar down Rideau. Boom. We have three rail lines downtown.

Next, Ottawa actually has higher transit usage than all those cities with more rail lines. So why exactly are we talking lessons from them?

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Number of lines to downtown is an incredibly dumb arbitrary metric. Says absolutely nothing about the quality and capacity of those lines and utilization of transit. If that's the metric, let's put a streetcar down Rideau. Boom. We have three rail lines downtown.

Next, Ottawa actually has higher transit usage than all those cities with more rail lines. So why exactly are we talking lessons from them?

I thought it was pretty evident that I was talking about rapid transit lines, not streetcars. Streetcars are good for local transit in densely populated areas and that's not the principle motive for a bank subway. A Bank subway would be for providing more direct and rapid access to downtown for southern commuters and airport travelers, increasing mobility along the city's most urban thoroughfare, providing high capacity accessibility to Lansdown for major events, increasing the transit modal share in southern communities, and helping to redistribute more growth and densification along the city's north-south axis, among others.

We've been investing in east-west transportation infrastructure for many decades now and it's part of the reason why we've seen a lot more growth and investment along that east-west axis compared to the southern parts of the city. I mean, all you got to do is look at our current bootleg "LRT" line serving the south to see the lack of investment there compared to the rest of the city. That's not to say it was wrong to prioritize east-west infrastructure, but I think it would be appropriate to shift our focus to the south after stage 3 and start to planning for improved mobility in that area. It's time we look to even things out a bit by investing in north-south mobility for facilitated growth in those areas.

As for the Calgary comparison, it says a lot that they're willing to invest more in their rapid transit network even though they have a lower transit modal share than Ottawa.

[Truenorth00]

You're right. We should support exactly the type of surface LRT that Calgary would build along an avenue like Bank.

[Clinton Desveaux]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Says who?

Ottawa Gatineau on target for 1,744,900 people by 2031. Approximately 15 years ahead of past projected figure of 2046. Ottawa population growth has been 2.3% a year in recent years & Gatineau 1.5% a year. The current population is 1,441,118 as of early 2020.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by Clinton Desveaux

Ottawa Gatineau on target for 1,744,900 people by 2031. Approximately 15 years ahead of past projected figure of 2046. Ottawa population growth has been 2.3% a year in recent years & Gatineau 1.5% a year. The current population is 1,441,118 as of early 2020.

Truenorth00 is asking you to cite your sources.

[Clinton Desveaux]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Truenorth00 is asking you to cite your sources.

Stats Canada for current population 1,441,118 is from July 1st 2019 so we can safely assume is has grown since that time

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/dail.../t001a-eng.htm

CTV News Story for growth figures percentage:
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/population...nada-1.4810274

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by Clinton Desveaux

Stats Canada for current population 1,441,118 is from July 1st 2019 so we can safely assume is has grown since that time

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/dail.../t001a-eng.htm

CTV News Story for growth figures percentage:
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/population...nada-1.4810274

Source for the 1.8 by 2028 to 2031, as again growth projections are included in the Official plan, and the high projection is 1.3 by 2036 for Ottawa, which would roughly require Gatineau to grow at more then double its current rate.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Clinton Desveaux

Stats Canada for current population 1,441,118 is from July 1st 2019 so we can safely assume is has grown since that time

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/dail.../t001a-eng.htm

CTV News Story for growth figures percentage:
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/population...nada-1.4810274

I am not a statistician or a demographer, but I don’t believe it is a best practice in either field to project future populations based on one year’s growth rate.

[JHikka]

StatCan have specific population projections for decades into the future but they're typically on the national or provincial level. Don't think i've seen any from StatCan that specifically project CMA population beyond a year or two at most.

Ottawa City demography might, I don't know.

[Nowhere]

Originally Posted by JHikka

StatCan have specific population projections for decades into the future but they're typically on the national or provincial level. Don't think i've seen any from StatCan that specifically project CMA population beyond a year or two at most.

Ottawa City demography might, I don't know.

Ontario Population Projections Update, 2019–2046

"The population of Eastern Ontario is projected to grow 27.9 per cent over the projection period, from 1.91 million to 2.44 million. Ottawa is projected to grow fastest (39.0 per cent) from 1.03 million in 2019 to 1.43 million in 2046."

https://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/economy...s/projections/

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Nowhere

Ontario Population Projections Update, 2019–2046

"The population of Eastern Ontario is projected to grow 27.9 per cent over the projection period, from 1.91 million to 2.44 million. Ottawa is projected to grow fastest (39.0 per cent) from 1.03 million in 2019 to 1.43 million in 2046."

https://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/economy...s/projections/

Right. So Clinton Desveaux's numbers are pure bullshit. Ottawa-Gatineau will not be hitting 1.8 million between 2028-2031.

More relevant to discussion at hand, in that provincial projection the GTA's share of provincial population goes up while Eastern Ontario's share goes down. Guess where the transit funding in going to go.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

Source for the 1.8 by 2028 to 2031, as again growth projections are included in the Official plan, and the high projection is 1.3 by 2036 for Ottawa, which would roughly require Gatineau to grow at more then double its current rate.

I can buy 1.8 million for the CMA in the 2035-2040 timeframe. But again, to justify a Bank St. subway a lot of that growth would have to end up on Bank. I suspect most is that growth will end up on the Confederation and Trillium Lines and substantially in the suburbs.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I can buy 1.8 million for the CMA in the 2035-2040 timeframe. But again, to justify a Bank St. subway a lot of that growth would have to end up on Bank. I suspect most is that growth will end up on the Confederation and Trillium Lines and substantially in the suburbs.

If you look at the age breakdown in 2030, it is mostly growth in seniors (boomers), with some middle age growth (millennials). So the transportation needs will really depend on what all of these seniors are going to do.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

So the transportation needs will really depend on what all of these seniors are going to do.

We know what they won't do: travel downtown at peak.

What they might need a lot more of is better bus service if they remain in the suburbs and can't/won't drive.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

We know what they won't do: travel downtown at peak.

What they might need a lot more of is better bus service if they remain in the suburbs and can't/won't drive.

That's the point of urban transit; ridership outside of peak. Cities in NA have focused to much attention and funds on commuter transit instead of all day urban ridership. Bank, Rideau and Montreal have decent ridership despite being served by garbage bus service, even now during the pandemic, while the suburban centric O-Train rapid transit line is operating at a fraction of its normal ridership.