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  #21  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2013, 6:09 PM
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The error was repeated in this article.
It is not four times the size of the City of Paris but more than 7 times.
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  #22  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2013, 8:31 PM
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These articles are just trying to grab readership, and taking advantage of bad American translation skills. It would be much more honest to just say that the suburbs of Paris will have a new regional governing compact.

As a Houstonian, I liken it to how this city and county treated Houston's suburbs over the decades. Harris County essentially absorbed most of the local governments of what used to be towns, and turned them into unincorporated Harris County. Now the county government is actually the largest in the region, and while Houston's city government is still quite large, it's still a part of the county. My French is far from proficient, but it sounds like that's a similar case to what's happening here. But unlike Houston, the actual boundaries of the places will not change... they'll keep their identities, but just be governed differently.
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  #23  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2013, 12:33 AM
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Well, it's even more complicated than any of you have surmised.

First of all, let's note that the Greater Paris Metropolis (Métropole du Grand Paris in French) hasn't been created yet. It was approved by the National Assembly last month (much to anyone's surprise, because this project is literally a big bang unseen in French politics since 1789), but it still needs to be approved by the Senate, which is usually very conservative. The bill will be debated in the Senate in September. I fear a coalition of Communists and Rightist Conservatives will reject the bill (the Communists have most to lose if the bill is turned into law, because their last strongholds in the former 'red belt' of Paris will disappear). The Socialists are numerically the majority in the National Assembly, so they can pass any law without the support of any other party, but in the Senate they need the support of other parties. All the Communist senators will vote against the Greater Paris Metropolis, so the Socialists will need the votes of a certain number of Green and Rightist senators. We don't know yet whether they'll manage to get a majority. Some Rightist senators are in favor of the Greater Paris Metropolis, but other Rightist senators are absolutely opposed (in particular all the friends of Nicolas Sarkozy, who would lose their Rightist stronghold around La Défense, the 92 department, if the Greater Paris Metropolis was created).

If the Senate rejects the bill, the government can submit it again to the National Assembly (in the end, the National Assembly can overrule the Senate, just like the House of Commons in the UK can overrule the House of Lords), but it's not certain the government would send the bill back to the National Assembly after it was rejected by the Senate, because the Senate is supposed to represent the local councils (and the object of this bill is precisely a matter that concerns the organization of local councils), and because neither the French president nor the French prime-minister feel really concerned about the Greater Paris Metropolis (it's a project that arose at the last minute coming from grass-root Socialist deputies in the National Assembly).

So we'll know for sure only in September. If the Senate rejects the bill and the government then shelves the project, it will generate a major controversy I think, because it will be seen as yet another big symbol of a country (France) incapable of reforming itself. I expect all the media will turn against the government if the Greater Paris Metropolis is shelved.

Now, if the bill is passed and becomes law (in the Autumn), then it's basically the start of the biggest big bang in the administrative history of France since 1789. Few people realize the extent of what's at stake yet. It will be the end of the City of Paris as we know it, that's for sure.

The Greater Paris Metropolis will be a structure unlike anything that currently exists in North America. As one forumer said, it will resemble more or less the Municipality of Metropolitan Toronto as it existed between 1954 and 1998, but on a scale much larger than Metropolitan Toronto of course. In Europe, it will only resemble the Gemeindeverbände that exist in certain German states, but then only in rural areas. Compared to Greater London, it will be both less integrated than Greater London in some areas, and more integrated than Greater London in other areas.

The Greater Paris Metropolis is due to come into existence on Jan. 1, 2016. Its exact geographical extent is as yet unknown, because some deputies cleverly inserted an article in the bill during the debate at the National Assembly last month which makes it possible for any contiguous commune or group of communes from the outer suburbs to join the Greater Paris Metropolis before Nov. 30, 2014 (in other words, each commune located in the outer suburbs will have until Nov. 30, 2014 to decide whether they join the Greater Paris Metropolis). The communes who will refuse to join the Greater Paris Metropolis will be forced to join some intercommunal structures containing at least 200,000 inhabitants anyway, so they may think twice before they refuse to join the Greater Paris Metropolis, because otherwise they may be forced to join groupings of communes that they dislike (for example if the Socialist municipal councilors of Argenteuil refuse to join the Greater Paris Metropolis, they will be forced to join a grouping of communes dominated by the Right ; Argenteuil alone has 100,000 inh.).

This map shows the minimum extent of the Greater Paris Metropolis. According to the bill amended and approved by the National Assembly last month and sent to the Senate, it can't be smaller than that (127 communes, including the City of Paris which is 1 commune). It will be larger than that depending on which communes/groups of communes located beyond the red line (and either contiguous to the red line or to communes that decide to join) join before Nov. 30, 2014.



Tomorrow I'll tell you more about how we came to that (very unexpected) bill and why it's a big bang. In a nutshell, if the bill is passed, the Mayor of Paris is destined to become little more than the Lord-Mayor of the City of London in London. The new big boss will be the President of the Greater Paris Metropolis (Président de la Métropole du Grand Paris). Given the current political landscape, it's quite likely that the Mayor of Paris and the President of the Greater Paris Metropolis will be the same person, which is why I said it would be more integrated than Greater London in some respects. And out of the two jobs, it's of course the job of President of the Greater Paris Metropolis that will be the most important.

Last but not least, the current departments (75, 92, 93, 94) are also destined to disappear within 5 years (the Communist president of the 94 department and the Rightist president of the 92 department are furious beyond words; even Bertrand Delanoë, the mayor of Paris and president of the 75 department has voiced his unhappiness). But more about that tomorrow.

PS: Another last but not least, this one was frankly the icing on the cake: a surprise amendment passed in the middle of the night in the National Assembly 2 weeks ago withdrew La Défense from the French State and entrusted it to the Greater Paris Metropolis. So from 2016 onwards, it's no more the French government (and the two tiny Rightist municipalities on whose territory La Défense was built) that will have authority over La Défense, but it's the president of the Greater Paris Metropolis who will from then on oversee La Défense. The Socialist French government said they were opposed to this amendment submitted by a Socialist grass-root deputy and passed in the middle of the night, so we'll see whether it stays in the final version of the bill after the text goes through the Senate's meat grinder.
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  #24  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2013, 1:25 AM
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This is the grass-root (and completely unknown) Socialist deputy (from the north-western inner suburbs of Paris) who is largely responsible for this surprise Greater Paris Metropolis bill. He's also the one who submitted the amendment (and got it passed) that will transfer authority over La Défense to the Greater Paris Metropolis. His name is Alexis Bachelay. It's crazy how major pages of history can be written by completely unknown characters (it was only made possible due to a series of aborted and botched reforms for Paris that I will try to explain tomorrow, so in the end, Bachelay's project, which until 2 months ago was thought of as science-fiction, won the day because all other attempts at reforming Paris have failed).



Let's also give credit to the Rightist senator Philippe Dallier (from the north-eastern inner suburbs of Paris) who was the first French politician to propose a merger of Paris and its suburbs back in 2008. His project was seen as that of a lunatic for the past 5 years, until Bachelay and a few other grass-root Socialists recycled Dallier's project last June as a last attempt to salvage a reform of Paris botched by the Socialist government. Dallier will now try to win enough Rightist senators to support the bill in the Senate in September. He says he's confident to get a majority for the bill. I'm less confident, but we'll see.



Dallier and Bachelay are just absolute opposites in terms of styles and personalities (to say nothing of socio-economic policies), but they make a great team for Greater Paris.
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  #25  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2013, 9:41 AM
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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
Tomorrow I'll tell you more about how we came to that (very unexpected) bill and why it's a big bang. In a nutshell, if the bill is passed, the Mayor of Paris is destined to become little more than the Lord-Mayor of the City of London in London. The new big boss will be the President of the Greater Paris Metropolis (Président de la Métropole du Grand Paris). Given the current political landscape, it's quite likely that the Mayor of Paris and the President of the Greater Paris Metropolis will be the same person, which is why I said it would be more integrated than Greater London in some respects. And out of the two jobs, it's of course the job of President of the Greater Paris Metropolis that will be the most important.
I am not sure London makes for a good comparison, as although the Lord Mayor of the City of London is little more than a figurehead, the City of London Corporation is a very powerful organisation and has seperate city status bestowed upon it. The fact that there is now an elected Mayor in London has not diminished the power of the City Corporation one jot.
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  #26  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2013, 10:01 AM
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I'm far too lazy, bored by politics, impatient and moody at this to still follow the developments of that story that got on my nerves. I was waiting for a post from Brisavoine that would spare me from insulting any French politician on this forum.
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[...] but it still needs to be approved by the Senate, which is usually very conservative.
Watch the vocabulary here though, Bris. You know the French always mix up immobilism with conservatism, while those 2 notions are a priori unrelated. Unsurprisingly, the senate will choose immobilism in that matter, but the majority in there is now socialist, hence nothing much "conservative", at least officially.
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  #27  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2013, 12:16 PM
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I am not sure London makes for a good comparison, as although the Lord Mayor of the City of London is little more than a figurehead, the City of London Corporation is a very powerful organisation and has seperate city status bestowed upon it. The fact that there is now an elected Mayor in London has not diminished the power of the City Corporation one jot.
Yes, and the Ville de Paris, which won't be disbanded, is also a powerful organization with a separate city status, and will continue to exist. But its role will be more and more marginal compared to the Greater Paris Metropolis, just like the role of the City of London is now marginal compared to the Greater London Authority.

That's IF the bill is passed into law in the Autumn of course, and not emptied of its substance by the Senate.
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  #28  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2013, 12:37 PM
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Unsurprisingly, the senate will choose immobilism in that matter, but the majority in there is now socialist, hence nothing much "conservative", at least officially.
No. The Socialists have only 128 senators out of 348. There are also 17 center-left senators who usually align themselves with the Socialists. So that's 145 senators in total, but they need 175 senators to get a majority. There are 171 Rightist senators, 20 Communist senators, and 12 Green senators.

They need to get the votes of 30 senators who are not Socialist and center-left to have the bill passed, and even more if some Socialist senators vote against the bill (many Socialist senators, who are also local mayors, are opposed to the Greater Paris Metropolis and other metropolitan structures, but they don't dare to voice their opposition too much).

The 20 Communist senators will vote against the bill. The 12 Green senators may abstain (they are in favor of the Greater Paris Metropolis, but they think the way the bill was written, the Greater Paris Metropolis won't be democratic enough, so they may choose to abstain ). So the Socialists need about 30 Rightist senators to vote for the bill in order to have it passed. Already Philippe Dallier has said he will vote in favor of it (even if he's not entirely satisfied with the text; he would have prefered for the 75, 92, 93, and 94 departments to be disbanded immediately). Another prominent and influential center-right senator, former prime-minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin, has also publicly said that he thought the bill was a good thing. So we'll see. Some Rightist senators may choose to vote against the bill just to cause trouble to the Socialist government, even though they actually agree with a metropolitan structure for Paris.
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  #29  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2013, 12:53 PM
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Yes, and the Ville de Paris, which won't be disbanded, is also a powerful organization with a separate city status, and will continue to exist. But its role will be more and more marginal compared to the Greater Paris Metropolis, just like the role of the City of London is now marginal compared to the Greater London Authority.

That's IF the bill is passed into law in the Autumn of course, and not emptied of its substance by the Senate.
Doesn't this run contrary to your argument that power in Paris will be more centralised, as if the Ville de Paris had anything like the powers of the City of London Corporation, it would still be a very powerful organisation and as I have already pointed out the advent of an Elected Mayor in London has done little to diminish the might or power held by the City of London.

The City of London Corporation has very significant powers in relation to how the financial area is governed and even policed. The City of London having a separate police force to the rest of London and funds arts, education, planning and other services separately to that of the rest of London, indeed it largely runs it's own affairs. The City of London Corporation is also a powerful and extremely wealthy lobby group in terms of economic affairs on a domestic and global scale.

There are many who are critical of the powers held by the City of London and the secrecy and lack of accountability that surrounds the corporation and parallels have even been drawn with the Vatican.

http://taxjustice.blogspot.co.uk/200...te-within.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15602906

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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine
Tomorrow I'll tell you more about how we came to that (very unexpected) bill and why it's a big bang. In a nutshell, if the bill is passed, the Mayor of Paris is destined to become little more than the Lord-Mayor of the City of London in London. The new big boss will be the President of the Greater Paris Metropolis (Président de la Métropole du Grand Paris). Given the current political landscape, it's quite likely that the Mayor of Paris and the President of the Greater Paris Metropolis will be the same person, which is why I said it would be more integrated than Greater London in some respects. And out of the two jobs, it's of course the job of President of the Greater Paris Metropolis that will be the most important.

Last edited by Pretext; Aug 3, 2013 at 1:08 PM.
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  #30  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2013, 1:17 PM
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Doesn't this run contrary to your argument that power will be more centralised. The City of London Corporation has very significant powers in relation to how the financial area is governed and even policed. The City of London having a separate police force to the rest of London, whilst they are also a powerful lobby group in terms of economic affairs on a domestic and global scale.
The City of London Corporation has more power over its small territory of 2.9 km² than the Ville de Paris will have over its territory of 105 km², but I said the role of the City of London in London was marginal because it controls only 2.9 km² of Greater London. The Ville de Paris controls a much larger territory, it's as if the City of London controlled everything from Hampstead to Clapham, and from Whitechappel to Hammersmith. Within this territory, the Ville de Paris will have less powers than the City of London within its small territory, especially considering that the mayor of Paris and the president of the Greater Paris Metropolis will probably be the same person, so the Ville de Paris will be naturally subordinate to the Greater Paris Metropolis.

Three-quarters of the metropolitan council will be made up of metropolitan councilors from the suburbs (the bill says that the Ville de Paris will have only 25% of the metropolitan councilors in the metropolitan council), so the mayor of Paris (the mayor of the Ville de Paris), if he/she's president of the Greater Paris Metropolis, will in practive have to rely on the votes of the inner suburbs to remain in power.

That's how these inner suburbs look like:



These 126 tiny suburban communes (and more if communes from the outer suburbs join before Nov. 30, 2014) will control 75% of the metropolitan council, but each of them will weigh very little individually (for example the commune shown in the picture above will have only 1 metropolitan councilor in the metropolitan council, which will be made up of approximately 200 metropolitan councilors).
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  #31  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2013, 2:26 PM
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Median salaries (by commune/arrondissement of residence) in the City of Paris and the inner suburbs (note that the Greater Paris Metropolis will be slightly larger than City of Paris and inner suburbs):



The price of real estate in 2012 in the City of Paris and inner suburbs:



The current majority in the 123 communes of the inner suburbs and the 20 arrondissements of the City of Paris. Blue and light-blue means right and center-right majority. Pink means Socialist majority. Red means Communist majority. Green means... Green majority.

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  #32  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2013, 3:46 PM
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The City of London Corporation has more power over its small territory of 2.9 km² than the Ville de Paris will have over its territory of 105 km², but I said the role of the City of London in London was marginal because it controls only 2.9 km² of Greater London. The Ville de Paris controls a much larger territory, it's as if the City of London controlled everything from Hampstead to Clapham, and from Whitechappel to Hammersmith. Within this territory, the Ville de Paris will have less powers than the City of London within its small territory, especially considering that the mayor of Paris and the president of the Greater Paris Metropolis will probably be the same person, so the Ville de Paris will be naturally subordinate to the Greater Paris Metropolis.
It's what's in the City of London (Square Mile) that's important and not it's geographical size. The City of London being home to one of the greatest concentration of financial institutions on earth and being one of the most important financial markets in the world. The City of London Corporation is therefore extremely wealthy and influential which is why parallels have been drawn with places such as the Vatican etc.

http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/about...key-facts.aspx

http://www.newstatesman.com/economy/...rporation-city



Last edited by Pretext; Aug 3, 2013 at 4:34 PM.
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  #33  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2013, 5:41 PM
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Good news, yesterday I discovered that another commune (municipality) from the outer suburbs, Vélizy-Villacoublay, will be part of the Greater Paris Metropolis. I've updated the map which shows the minimum territorial extent of the future Greater Paris Metropolis (other communes from the outer suburbs may join before Nov. 30, 2014).

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  #34  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2013, 6:06 PM
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For Vélizy-Villacoublay, it is pretty obviously.
The municipality is much more connected with the neighboring inner suburbs (Meudon la Foret and Clamart) than with the neighboring outer suburbs (Viroflay and Versailles).
The forest of Meudon creates a separation.
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  #35  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2013, 8:29 PM
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I think it'd be good if it extended up to St-Germain-en-Laye and Versailles and the communes surrounding them. Quite possibly some interesting tax revenues added.
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  #36  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2013, 9:33 PM
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It will be very difficult.
Versailles is part of an intercommunal structure with 182,969 inhabitants (Versailles Grand Parc).
It is less than the 200,000 required but by with the adding Le Chesnay, the population will increase by 28,975 and then exceed the 200,000.
More communes will also join Versailles Grand Parc by 2014.

I was pretty surprised to see that Le Chesnay was not already in Versailles intercommunal structure.

In France, the most interesting for tax revenues is to have many companies and jobs, the wealth of the population is not as important.
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  #37  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2013, 6:18 AM
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In France, the most interesting for tax revenues is to have many companies and jobs, the wealth of the population is not as important.
Yes, certainly...
Since this is completely bound to the decentralization bill they've been discussing (the Senate passed it yet, so it might be close to reality now), I'm wondering whether this whole thing wouldn't allow us to eventually locally rebalance this weird tax system of the national government. I'm not aware of the detailed contents of the bill, though. It must be heavy as hell, as usual. And yet, I doubt it would include any effective decentralization of taxation.

If you guys have more details about this and quickly tell us, that'd be some helpful info.
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  #38  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2013, 4:01 PM
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This is the grass-root (and completely unknown) Socialist deputy (from the north-western inner suburbs of Paris) who is largely responsible for this surprise Greater Paris Metropolis bill. He's also the one who submitted the amendment (and got it passed) that will transfer authority over La Défense to the Greater Paris Metropolis. His name is Alexis Bachelay. It's crazy how major pages of history can be written by completely unknown characters (it was only made possible due to a series of aborted and botched reforms for Paris that I will try to explain tomorrow, so in the end, Bachelay's project, which until 2 months ago was thought of as science-fiction, won the day because all other attempts at reforming Paris have failed).
This isn't completely true.

Alexis Bachelay is the member of Parliament which had been decided to be put on first line because he's a representative of the suburbs. The decision has been taken by much more powerful members of the Socialist Party :
- Claude Bartolone, President of the National Assembly and former President of one of the suburban department involved : Seine-Saint-Denis (93).
- Anne Hidalgo and Jean-Marie Le Guen, current influential leaders in the Paris city council which are running for election at next year's municipal election.
- Gérard Collomb, current mayor of Lyon and very active in the process of enlargement of "metropoles".
- and ultimately Jean-Paul Huchon, President of the regional council of Ile de France (regions could somewhat be compared to US states but with a lot less power than them). Huchon used to be fiercely against it, but eventually accepted when it's been decided to limit the project only to the three inner ring departments.

Overall, all the most influent members of the socialist party in the Paris metropolitan area support the project. Only the current mayor of Paris Bertrand Delanoë is against it, but he's at the end of his mandate and won't run for another term, so his authority is very limited nowadays.
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  #39  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2013, 5:35 PM
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Alexis Bachelay is the member of Parliament which had been decided to be put on first line because he's a representative of the suburbs. The decision has been taken by much more powerful members of the Socialist Party :
Yes and no. There wasn't a big fervor for a metropolitan authority of Paris in the Socialist party. Bachelay was the sparkle. Sometimes, politics needs sparkles. Without Bachelay, I'm not sure any of them would have come out of the woods and defended a Greater Paris Metropolis in Parliament. And Bachelay was clearly the sole person behind the parliamentary coup that withdrew La Défense from the French state and entrusted it to the Greater Paris Metropolis.

As for Delanoë, well what else did you expect? His political career was pathetic from A to Z:
- was a mediocre leader of the municipal opposition before 2002
- didn't win the popular vote in the 2002 municipal elections but was elected mayor of Paris nonetheless due to the stupid electoral system of the City of Paris, which resembles the US presidential election (Bush Jr also lost the popular vote in 2000 but was elected president nonetheless) after running a campaign that was worthy of a 50,000 inh. sleepy provincial town, but not of a global metropolis like Paris
- became famous with stupid policies (blocking car traffic) or futile policies (Paris Plage, Nuits Blanches) that were not up to the challenges facing a global city in a fast changing world
- lost the organization of the 2012 Olympic Games
- never had a metropolitan vision of Paris, behaved like an arrondissement mayor
- always more interested in form and appearances than content
- insufferably self-righteous
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Old Posted Aug 15, 2013, 2:34 AM
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Yes and no. There wasn't a big fervor for a metropolitan authority of Paris in the Socialist party. Bachelay was the sparkle. Sometimes, politics needs sparkles. Without Bachelay, I'm not sure any of them would have come out of the woods and defended a Greater Paris Metropolis in Parliament. And Bachelay was clearly the sole person behind the parliamentary coup that withdrew La Défense from the French state and entrusted it to the Greater Paris Metropolis.
No he wasn't the sparkle. The plan was already presented by Claude Bartolone and Jean-Marie Le Guen at a Paris socialist party meeting in march 2012, which means even before Francois Hollande's election at the presidency.

Sorry to break the bubble but I was there. I know what I'm talking about.
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