California High Speed Rail Thread

[dimondpark]

stay classy cahsra

Judge: California High-Speed Rail Authority violates initiative

By Juliet Williams

Associated Press

POSTED: 08/16/2013 05:07:14 PM PDT
UPDATED: 08/16/2013 06:38:44 PM PDT

SACRAMENTO -- A Sacramento County
judge ruled Friday that the agency
overseeing the California bullet train
failed to comply with the financial and
environmental requirements voters were
promised when they approved initial
funding for the project five years ago.

But rail officials said the project will
proceed as planned with a
groundbreaking this summer after
Superior Court Judge Michael Kenny said
the Legislature was within its authority
last year to approve the first $8 billion
phase of the project anyway.

Kenny said the rail authority "abused its
discretion by approving a funding plan
that did not comply with the
requirements of the law." After another
round of court briefs, the judge will hold
another hearing to determine whether to
penalize the California High-Speed Rail
Authority...

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-...tes-initiative

[blackcat23]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...s-construction

High-speed rail construction begins in California with an uncertain future

Trucks loaded with tomatoes, milk and almonds clog the two main highways that bisect California's farm heartland, carrying goods to millions along the Pacific coast and beyond. This dusty stretch of land is the starting point for one of the nation's most expensive public infrastructure projects: a $68bn high-speed rail system that would span the state, linking America's salad bowl to more jobs, opportunity and buyers.

Five years ago, California voters overwhelmingly approved a bullet train for the nation's most populous state. It would be America's first high-speed rail system, sold to the public as a way to improve access to well-paying jobs, cut pollution from smog-filled roadways, reduce time sitting in traffic, and provide an alternative to high fuel prices.

Now, engineering work has finally begun on the first 30-mile segment of track in Fresno, a city of 500,000 people with soaring unemployment and a withering downtown. Rail is meant to help this place, with construction jobs and improved access to opportunities once the job is complete. But the region that could benefit most from the project is also where opposition has grown most fierce.

[StethJeff]

Originally Posted by blackcat23

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...s-construction

High-speed rail construction begins in California with an uncertain future

This sucks. Shortly after we voted for this, the news has been downhill. Cost increases, construction delays, track/speed compromises, and ultimately public opinion. I think most of us knew that this clusterfuck would happen and it likely would never get built but it still sucks to see that this'll probably go nowhere.

If it ever does somehow get built, it won't be in my lifetime, it'll be old technology by the time it's completed, and will have costed 3x what it ought to.

[jg6544]

Originally Posted by StethJeff

This sucks. Shortly after we voted for this, the news has been downhill. Cost increases, construction delays, track/speed compromises, and ultimately public opinion. I think most of us knew that this clusterfuck would happen and it likely would never get built but it still sucks to see that this'll probably go nowhere.

If it ever does somehow get built, it won't be in my lifetime, it'll be old technology by the time it's completed, and will have costed 3x what it ought to.

Sad, but true, I'm afraid.

[Eightball]

Huh? It will be built (already $15 billion plus allocated for it) and it will be a smashing success. It will touch metro areas of approximately 30 million - no concerns about ridership. Stop with the negativity!

[M II A II R II K]

Local opposition rises against Calif. high-speed rail as engineering begins in Central Valley

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...2c7_story.html

.....

Now, engineering work has finally begun on the first 30-mile (48-kilometer) segment of track here in Fresno, a city of a half-million people with soaring unemployment and a withering downtown core littered with abandoned factories and shuttered stores.

Rail is meant to help Fresno, with construction jobs now and improved access to economic opportunity once the project is finished. But the region that could benefit most from the project is also where opposition to it has grown most fierce.

“I just wish it would go away, this high-speed rail. I just wish it would go away,” says Gary Lanfranco, whose restaurant in downtown Fresno is slated to be demolished to make way for rerouted traffic.

Such sentiments can be heard throughout the Central Valley, where roads are dotted with signs such as: “HERE COMES HIGH SPEED RAIL There goes the farm.” Growers complain of misplaced priorities, and residents wonder if their tax money is being squandered.

.....

[northbay]

We're talking heavy red areas. They're against ANY change unless its lessening taxes.

Even if the project was "perfect", they'd be against it.

[StethJeff]

Originally Posted by Eightball

Huh? It will be built (already $15 billion plus allocated for it) and it will be a smashing success. It will touch metro areas of approximately 30 million - no concerns about ridership. Stop with the negativity!

I'm not confident that this will be the case

If the state's finances continue to blow, if the fed doesn't fully sign-on because of their own finances, if public approval dips into the 30s, if it turns out the cost estimates were way too low, if new technology emerges - I dunno, it just seems like any number of highly probable negative variables can derail (pun intended) this project. Even as a CA and CA bullet train superfan, it's hard to be confident about this.

[ardecila]

I don't understand the concerns over new technology. 220mph steel-on-steel HSR is a huge improvement for California over the status quo. Prop 1A requires a travel time of 2h40 LA-SF, which will be revolutionary in the context of California. Direct downtown-to-downtown service will stimulate true urban development and encourage businesses to relocate to urban centers.

It doesn't matter that Japan may roll out a maglev before that, or Elon Musk may roll out a hyperloop. 220mph rail is tried-and-tested technology, which means it's very low-risk if engineers don't get in their own way. It may even be possible to increase speeds in a few decades to 250mph, which is probably close to the limit of energy efficiency for steel-on-steel rail.

The cost overruns suck, but again, this is entirely California's own fault. The project has been set up as a colossal jobs program (and a handout to connected engineering firms/contractors) so the greater the cost, the better. There have been many stupid decisions... the biggest ones are in routing, where HSR will intentionally divert over the Tehachapis to serve Palmdale instead of taking a shorter Grapevine route paralleling I-5. Further north, planners chose to cross the Diablo Range at Pacheco Pass instead of Altamont, which means every train will stop at San Jose but massively increases costs. I'm glad CHSRA finally decided to go with a blended system on the Peninsula, but they're doing it all wrong by designing a weird and insanely expensive signaling system from scratch, instead of using off-the-shelf European systems.

[fflint]

Originally Posted by ardecila

There have been many stupid decisions... the biggest ones are in routing, where HSR will intentionally divert over the Tehachapis to serve Palmdale instead of taking a shorter Grapevine route paralleling I-5.

The 5 runs up the Grapevine's 8% grade between the San Joaquin Valley and Tejon Pass. Engineers have always concluded that is too steep a grade for trains, so existing freight and passenger tracks were laid through the Tehachapi Pass to the east. That's CAHSR's planned route, and it will add 25 miles to the trip.

Further north, planners chose to cross the Diablo Range at Pacheco Pass instead of Altamont, which means every train will stop at San Jose but massively increases costs.

I preferred the Altamont alignment for speed, but San Jose is not an unreasonable stop given Silicon Valley's economy and the fact its downtown Diridon Station is a major regional rail hub. It's served by VTA light rail and the ACE, Caltrain, and Capitol Corridor commuter rail lines. It is also planned to have BART service.

I'm glad CHSRA finally decided to go with a blended system on the Peninsula, but they're doing it all wrong by designing a weird and insanely expensive signaling system from scratch, instead of using off-the-shelf European systems.

How far into the design are they? Dumb decision.

[ltsmotorsport]

Originally Posted by fflint

The 5 runs up the Grapevine's 8% grade between the San Joaquin Valley and Tejon Pass. Engineers have always concluded that is too steep a grade for trains, so existing freight and passenger tracks were laid through the Tehachapi Pass to the east. That's CAHSR's planned route, and it will add 25 miles to the trip.

From the CAHSR Rail Blog: http://www.cahsrblog.com/2013/06/the-truth-about-tejon/

Some very good and well researched points in the embedded document about why Tejon Pass should be reconsidered, including the grade/terrain issues.

[fflint]

Originally Posted by ltsmotorsport

From the CAHSR Rail Blog: http://www.cahsrblog.com/2013/06/the-truth-about-tejon/

Some very good and well researched points in the embedded document about why Tejon Pass should be reconsidered, including the grade/terrain issues.

One of the guys who writes that blog is a former forumer!

Anyway, don't get me wrong--I would prefer a Tejon Pass alignment for speed, just as I would prefer an Altamont alignment up here for speed.

[ardecila]

Planners avoided the Grapevine because all feasible alignments require taking (undeveloped) property from the well-connected developers of Tejon Ranch. All ~25 million annual riders will face the consequences in time lost.

I agree that San Jose should be linked into the system somehow, and maybe Palmdale too. I just think it would work better as a (non-high-speed) spur at lower cost. After Caltrain is upgraded, trips from Redwood City to San Jose will be quick, and you can time transfers so HSR passengers hop from one train to the other. Certain trips could even run directly to SJ instead of SF.

[ltsmotorsport]

The link I posted above references concerns about the Tejon Ranch property. There would have to be some serious negotiating to avoid any legal backlash.

Fflint, I figured that was your stance, but just thought I'd point out that the grade issue really isn't one.

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by StethJeff

This sucks. Shortly after we voted for this, the news has been downhill. Cost increases, construction delays, track/speed compromises, and ultimately public opinion. I think most of us knew that this clusterfuck would happen and it likely would never get built but it still sucks to see that this'll probably go nowhere.

If it ever does somehow get built, it won't be in my lifetime, it'll be old technology by the time it's completed, and will have costed 3x what it ought to.

I agree with you. San Diego will never see HSR built here. I can think of so many better urban rail projects to be built in LA, SF and SD with $68 Billion (and going up!).

It's going to be on the slower side for HSR.

[Eightball]

^^I disagree with your negativity on the SD extension. Once the SF-LA initial segment is completed both SD (and Sacramento) are low-hanging fruit. Both have substantial populations that currently have substantial train ridership and frequencies, and the distances to both are not far.

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by Eightball

^^I disagree with your negativity on the SD extension. Once the SF-LA initial segment is completed both SD (and Sacramento) are low-hanging fruit. Both have substantial populations that currently have substantial train ridership and frequencies, and the distances to both are not far.

Disagree. HSR from SD to LA has it going through riverside. The current surfliner is a direct connect and is sufficient. HSR will only shave off about 30 mins but cost tens of billions. The track mileage is 167 miles. Besides, once you get to either LA or SD, you'll have no where to go unless a comprehensive local rail system is built. That's where I'd focus $68 billion towards.

SD has many needs for local dollars to focus on local projects: the roads are crumbling, the schools are underfunded, etc. I just don't see San Diegans supporting a train to LA via Riverside in a future election here as we all know $68B will evaporate long before it reaches SD.

[Eightball]

Originally Posted by Leo the Dog

Disagree. HSR from SD to LA has it going through riverside. The current surfliner is a direct connect and is sufficient. HSR will only shave off about 30 mins but cost tens of billions. The track mileage is 167 miles. Besides, once you get to either LA or SD, you'll have no where to go unless a comprehensive local rail system is built. That's where I'd focus $68 billion towards.

I don't necessarily agree with your first sentence, but fair point. Second sentence - 167 miles won't cost tens of billions.

The rest is completely off, though. LA has almost 400k daily rail ridership at the present (and millions of bus ridership) and SD has 89k daily rail ridership. LA has the biggest rail expansion in the country going on right now and SD has active expansion happening at the present. And, of course, having HSR will provide a further impetus for more local public transit. Hardly "no where to go" as you wrote.

Finally, the billions given by the fed so far CANNOT be used for local transit, nor can any of the money approved by voters for HSR.

[202_Cyclist]

The CA High Speed Rail blog has a post about the LA Union Station master plan. While NIMBYs continue to fight this important infrastructure investment and while the Ayn Rand Republicans continue to try BS defund this, there is either construction or serious planning underway for three of the future high speed rail stations now.

http://www.cahsrblog.com/2013/10/uni...ted-bus-plaza/

[202_Cyclist]

Two busy Amtrak train lines set ridership records in California

By Dan Weikel
November 21, 2013
LA Times

"Amtrak-California set ridership records last year on two of its busiest long distance lines in the state — the Pacific Surfliner along the coast and the San Joaquin through the Central Valley.

Rail officials announced Thursday that the two lines, which are funded by Caltrans, carried almost 3.93 million passengers for the fiscal year that ended on Sept. 30, 2013. That represents an increase of more than 110,000 riders from the year before.

"In California, a rail renaissance is underway," Caltrans Director Malcolm Dougherty said. "Train travel is increasingly seen as a smart option..."

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...#ixzz2lOO8RKjd