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  #61  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2008, 11:43 PM
malmsteen malmsteen is offline
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Originally Posted by flar View Post
Kenilworth and anything close to Barton is gritty and not really desirable but super cheap. West of downtown is nice and also south of Main is nice. If you ask me, the best deals on houses are near The Delta/Gage Park area. Beautiful old homes, not gritty and much cheaper than similar areas to the west (Locke Street/Kirkendall neighbourhood is getting pricey). Search for my other photo tours and you'll see what some of these neighbourhoods look like.

Also check out the North End near Bayfront Park.
Thanks very much. That helps a good deal. I notice a bunch of stuff in a row on Emerald Street (just over from Victoria Ave North. Looks like a big packing plant or something must be accross the street. 3 houses in a row listed and cheap.
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  #62  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2008, 11:54 PM
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I was in Hamilton a few weeks ago to pick up a friend at the GO centre and head off to a camping trip. We spent a little bit of time in Hamilton. Enough to grab dinner and take a tour of Barton. It's a rough street for sure, but I didn't feel like I was going to get my hubcaps stolen or anything. Detroit and Tampa can be much scarier.

I think Barton has potential, but it's a very long-term kind of potential. I think it will be the last straw as just about every other neighborhood in the lower city gentrifies and becomes too expensive for urban pioneers. The south and west parts of the inner city are already pretty upmarket. Next, I would look out for east Hamilton, especially as the LRT is put in place.
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  #63  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2008, 3:41 AM
malmsteen malmsteen is offline
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Originally Posted by shappy View Post
wow, that is nastay!

great photo here:

I second that. This could be the album cover for a Springsteen/Melloncamp duet.
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  #64  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2011, 9:15 PM
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Love the grit. Looks like it has incredible potential though!
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  #65  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2011, 10:05 PM
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This is about as gritty as it gets in Canada, but even here you won't find steel bars on the windows of any of the homes (though some of the businesses to have bars obviously). Nor will you find those hideous sliding steel doors ("garage doors") covering up the facades of any of the businesses when they're closed.
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  #66  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2011, 10:09 PM
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Cool photo! Glad to know it's there; love seeing photos like this but that just makes me fascinated about really putting a history together.

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Originally Posted by malmsteen View Post
I second that. This could be the album cover for a Springsteen/Melloncamp duet.
...eh, I don't know about that. Not that it isn't a cool photo, but for Springsteen & Melloncamp? I think you need to put a designer on that working nonstop for awhile on artwork that's all about the album.
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  #67  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2011, 10:26 PM
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  #68  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2011, 2:12 AM
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Holy pistoly, how the heck did I miss this rascal before? Heckofa thread flar. I love the grit and the fact that the street is one long straight shot. I'll try to make the whole length when I get my Scoot-Around chair.

Thanks.
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  #69  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2011, 10:20 PM
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This has been a great thread, Flar!

It's going to be interesting to see what happens to areas in the lower city, such as Barton, over the next decade.

In general, Hamiltonians have very little appreciation for our "urban core" and what it offers. Many tend to treat Hamilton as a suburb itself, and they are quite content with travelling an hour east to Toronto for all things entertainment, culture, shopping, etc..

Unlike many other mid- to large-sized cities in North America, there has not been a recent demand in Hamilton for urban living spaces amongst young professionals, or anyone else, for that matter. The goal for nearly all educated and mildly successful individuals is to buy a suburban home in surrounding communities such as Ancaster, Burlington, Waterdown, Binbrook, and the South Mountain area (in fact, an acquaintance of mine who works in the city's urban planning department just bought a nice new McMansion in Binbrook). Most Hamiltonians with any kind of income want nothing to do with urban Hamilton. Therefore, I fear that the city's current population is either unable (poverty) or unwilling (suburban desires) to create sustainable urban revitalization.

Ironically, while I think Hamilton's proximity to Toronto hurts the city more than it helps, I believe that it will be Torontonians who save Hamilton from itself. Torontonians who appreciate an urban lifestyle are being priced out of Toronto; Hamilton offers an affordable alternative. Nearly identical Victorians that sell for $800,000+ in Toronto can be had for $300,000 in "trendy" areas of Hamilton. Artists priced out of Toronto are finding cheap studios and galleries.

So, as much as it pains me to admit it, I believe that Torontonians may help to save the city. However, it begs the question: What's better for Hamilton? A revitalized, gentrified, bedroom community full of Torontonians, or the status quo? I still haven't made up my mind.

(BTW, I love Toronto and its people(!), and it's not like I don't want them migrating to Hamilton. It's just sad when it seems like this city and its people cannot be the solution to its own problems)

Last edited by MPK; Apr 3, 2011 at 10:33 PM.
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  #70  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2011, 10:39 PM
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  #71  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2011, 11:41 PM
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I got nervous just looking at the pictures. Wow.
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  #72  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2011, 1:06 PM
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the commentary was awesome on this thread. the polish part of the neighborhood looks pretty decent.
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  #73  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2011, 5:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPK View Post
This has been a great thread, Flar!

It's going to be interesting to see what happens to areas in the lower city, such as Barton, over the next decade.

In general, Hamiltonians have very little appreciation for our "urban core" and what it offers. Many tend to treat Hamilton as a suburb itself, and they are quite content with travelling an hour east to Toronto for all things entertainment, culture, shopping, etc..

Unlike many other mid- to large-sized cities in North America, there has not been a recent demand in Hamilton for urban living spaces amongst young professionals, or anyone else, for that matter. The goal for nearly all educated and mildly successful individuals is to buy a suburban home in surrounding communities such as Ancaster, Burlington, Waterdown, Binbrook, and the South Mountain area (in fact, an acquaintance of mine who works in the city's urban planning department just bought a nice new McMansion in Binbrook). Most Hamiltonians with any kind of income want nothing to do with urban Hamilton. Therefore, I fear that the city's current population is either unable (poverty) or unwilling (suburban desires) to create sustainable urban revitalization.

Ironically, while I think Hamilton's proximity to Toronto hurts the city more than it helps, I believe that it will be Torontonians who save Hamilton from itself. Torontonians who appreciate an urban lifestyle are being priced out of Toronto; Hamilton offers an affordable alternative. Nearly identical Victorians that sell for $800,000+ in Toronto can be had for $300,000 in "trendy" areas of Hamilton. Artists priced out of Toronto are finding cheap studios and galleries.

So, as much as it pains me to admit it, I believe that Torontonians may help to save the city. However, it begs the question: What's better for Hamilton? A revitalized, gentrified, bedroom community full of Torontonians, or the status quo? I still haven't made up my mind.

(BTW, I love Toronto and its people(!), and it's not like I don't want them migrating to Hamilton. It's just sad when it seems like this city and its people cannot be the solution to its own problems)
Unfortunately, gentrification by Torontonians won't fix the fundamental problems, it just displaces the poor. That's the big problem in Hamilton, so many thousands of Hamiltonians have suffered from the effects of industrial decline that it's created a deeply entrenched cycle of poverty that will be hard to break. I don't know what the answer to that is (it's not just a simple matter of more jobs or more education and training).

The other problem with Hamilton is that things have gotten so bad (by Canadian standards) that the middle to upper middle class has almost completely abandoned the city. All that are left in the lower city are some urban pioneers and Toronto transplants. Everyone else is content to concentrate poverty and social problems in the lower city.

Hamilton is the only sizable Canadian city that is being eaten by its own suburbs, in the American style. The way things work now is that everything good goes to the burbs and everything bad goes to the lower city. Although Ancaster, Stoney Creek and the rest of Wentworth County were amalgamated with Hamilton (against their will despite over-representation of suburbs on city council), the biggest suburb, Burlington, remains a separate municipality. Burlington is a shiny new place that had greenfeilds with highway access, low taxes and a friendly development environment. Everything is in Burlington now-- offices, shopping, industry, new businesses of all sorts, and most of the upper middle class. Huge numbers of Hamiltonians now reverse commute to Burlington for work. The shiny new city right beside Hamilton has all the jobs and tax base that Hamilton needs just to maintain itself.
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  #74  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2011, 7:11 PM
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I remember looking at this thread years ago and can't believe I never left a comment (I think I planned to come back to it and just never did). It's as amazing a tour today as it was then. Really great stuff, flar! You can see all kinds of great potential here. Much of the building stock is fantastic.
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  #75  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2011, 8:38 PM
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Had to revisit this outstanding photo thread of the grit and shit.

Quote:
To which I would have to add: "Tats and Holes"
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  #76  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2011, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by flar View Post
Unfortunately, gentrification by Torontonians won't fix the fundamental problems, it just displaces the poor.
Yes, unfortunately, displacement of the poor is the necessary evil of gentrification. However, as you mentioned, poverty is so incredibly prevalent and widespread in the lower city that I believe an influx of middle-class residents (Torontonians, in this case, as we agree that middle-class Hamiltonians are unwilling to locate in the lower city) would only create a more favourable socio-economic balance that benefits everyone. The population living in poverty is so large, and the number of affordable housing complexes, rental units, halfway houses, shelters, and social service agencies in the lower city is so great, that there is little need to worry about significant displacement any time soon.

As for the cycle of poverty in this city, I, like you, have no answers. I see it every day, and it is devastating for so many reasons.

Last edited by MPK; Apr 6, 2011 at 12:42 AM.
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  #77  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2011, 4:57 PM
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However, as you mentioned, poverty is so incredibly prevalent and widespread in the lower city that I believe an influx of middle-class residents...The population living in poverty is so large, and the number of affordable housing complexes, rental units, halfway houses, shelters, and social service agencies in the lower city is so great, that there is little need to worry about significant displacement any time soon.
.
True, diluting the concentration of poverty would be a good thing. It's well known within the social services that concentrating services and low income housing in an area can make it difficult for people to get away from their problems, leads to poor schools, creates a negative social environment for children, etc. The flip side is that it's easier to serve people when the services are located near the people they serve, plus the lower city is walkable and has good transit. Push the poor to townhouses and apartments out in the car-dependent suburbs (like here in Ottawa) and you start to have huge transportation and accessibility issues when it comes to social services, shopping, hospitals and even getting to a job.

But I generally agree that mixed income neighbourhoods would be a welcome improvement in Hamilton. If it takes Torontonians to do it, I'm fine with that. Hamilton is a great city, but sometimes Hamiltonians are their own worst enemy.
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  #78  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2011, 8:15 PM
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So much grit - so little time. Nice set.
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  #79  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2011, 3:29 AM
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Great series. Thanks for posting it. I've done a couple of trips to Hamilton where I've explored the harbour area and the steel belt stuff, but your photo essay speaks of the people who created that lingering legacy. I love that photo that shappy and malmsteeen pointed out - it's the best composition of the series and speaks volumes about a particular time and place. Well done, man.
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  #80  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2012, 3:41 PM
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Barton village bandaid with a stylized B. As if the silly banners do anything worthwhile. Slap on some signage and call it revitalization. Downtown Flint does the same thing.

Too many cities do this sort of thing (also, silhouettes of people, depicting former years of vitality, in empty storefronts).
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