Winnipeg: Dugald Rd. - Plessis Rd. Interchange

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by alittle1

Do you think that any of the citizens will remember, that Wyatt took his family to Toronto and spent $3600 a night on their dime? Come fall time, they'll put their "X behind his name again.

The City should have completed the four lane in front of Bernie Wolfe School before they started on the underpass. Only in Winnipeg (the bottom of a lake) would you go under a rail line to put in a roadway. The existing administration, who has been around for the last 20 years is very under handed, under cover, under developed, under false pretenses, under mined, etc. etc. (you add your own).

Wyatt won't be getting my vote. Unfortunately there probably won't be much of a challenge against him.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by alittle1

The City should have completed the four lane in front of Bernie Wolfe School before they started on the underpass.

Yes, because traffic moving in a fast manner is more important than the safety of the students at Bernie Wolfe school...

I'm sorry but I can't agree with that.

[alittle1]

Originally Posted by steveosnyder

Yes, because traffic moving in a fast manner is more important than the safety of the students at Bernie Wolfe school...

I'm sorry but I can't agree with that.

You don't agree with much these days, but if they wait 9 months they can have another brood.

If you really want to know about the history of that roadway, I'LL ENLIGHTEN YOU.

Going way back to the original Mission Gardens Plan days, the two sets of railway tracks were like the Berlin Wall, inpenetrable. Bournais was just a deadend street turning into Hatcher. They expected the Mission Gardens area to develop faster, but it didn't because of funding, no bus service, poor access to Regent, etc. Transcona S.D. decided to build a school and a pool anyways to keep up with Mary Andre's wishes to dedicate a school to Bernie Wolfe (one of Transcona's favourite sons), more taxes dollars poured into a non-revenue producing area. The school was built and the buses that took children to the existing schools within Transcona proper, now took children to the new school for classes from Transcona proper. The bus loop was installed as a two fold deal, hacing city and school buses use it, but returned to only school use during a heated meeting. As time grew on, Mission Gardens did progress to the west, again stopping at the CN spur line. Construction came to a halt during the high interest rate years of 1980 to 1985.

The Inner City beltway that came from what is now CPT, was to come down to Regent/Pandora and cross the tracks to join at Plessis Rd. ( Just where Bernie Wolfe's mother-in-law owned some acreage). At the same time St. Boniface Industrial park was starting and a main entrance was made at Beghin on the S/S of Dugald Rd. SunX was buying properties along Dugald Rd. for future consideration and when he bought the property at the NW corner of what is now Bournais and Dugald, he needed some frontage to build a commercial strip and make it eye appealing to future tennants. This property was located in the District 5 St. Boniface area, and not Transcona's. He had more luck dealing with St. Boniface council, who were looking to populate the new industrial park area just like Inkster Park, and provide more tax dollars coming into their community. Plus Bob from SunX went out on the hook and took options on building commercial properties in the SBIP, which pleased them very much. Bob got his street along his property which provided him with frontage and a divided two lane provided access both coming and going from his development.

CN made a decision to remove the main line siding on the south side that serviced commercial properties and tried to sell their container service to the businesses instead. That didn't go over very well and they pulled out the tracks to show they meant business. That didn't go over to well and the businesses went to truck transport as a means of getting their raw product to their door rather then use CN.

Along about the same time, Transcona had a change of councilor's from Rizzuto to Wyatt (the old man, Reg, not Russ,the kid). Along with Shirley from NK and Vandale from St. Bonny, he was able to get the Bournais deadend extended over the CN WALL to Dugald Rd. (two lanes, but no the less, it was a crossing). I think, one of the promises was that no future crossings were going to interfere with CN's hold on Transcona, and with a stroke of the pen, the Inner City beltway, hit the dirt. Mission Gardens now had access to Dugald Rd to the south.

Access to the north was always the problem, with the Starlite Drive-in taking up a good portion of the land along Regent and when Chipman (Longboat Prop.) purchased it for Birchwood Motors and affiliates to be built as needed. The old VW dealership was to be razed and the roadway would come in a direct line to Bournais, without the zig-zag we have now. The next idea was to purchase the two corner properties on the SW side of Pandora and then cut the corner at the NE corner of Owen (where Birchwood Body Shop now sits) and re-align it with the corner at Regent. The City didn't want to purchase the properties and Longboat was being pushed by Lotteries Manitoba for the Birchwood Honda store next to the Casino, so Birchwood said, we're building a body shop there and that's it, if you want to push us on the Honda property the price is X mil, take it or leave it. Right now they're leaving it, because they have the Park Pontiac property that Jeff Deveris sold them because he didn't want to be in the car business anymore.

You have, what you have in front of Bernie Wolfe School because:

1. The City doesn't want to pay the money to do it right.

2. The people in the area don't want the cross-traffic going through Mission Gardens.

3. Transcona SD is concerned with the kids safety, but they had the choice 30 something years ago to place the school to face north along Rougeau, but they chose to keep it close to the development at the time and not allow any futuristic thinking to sway their thinking at the time.

4. And SteveOsynder is shooting blanks......

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by alittle1

You don't agree with much these days, but if they wait 9 months they can have another brood.

If you really want to know about the history of that roadway, I'LL ENLIGHTEN YOU.

Going way back to the original Mission Gardens Plan days, the two sets of railway tracks were like the Berlin Wall, inpenetrable. Bournais was just a deadend street turning into Hatcher. They expected the Mission Gardens area to develop faster, but it didn't because of funding, no bus service, poor access to Regent, etc. Transcona S.D. decided to build a school and a pool anyways to keep up with Mary Andre's wishes to dedicate a school to Bernie Wolfe (one of Transcona's favourite sons), more taxes dollars poured into a non-revenue producing area. The school was built and the buses that took children to the existing schools within Transcona proper, now took children to the new school for classes from Transcona proper. The bus loop was installed as a two fold deal, hacing city and school buses use it, but returned to only school use during a heated meeting. As time grew on, Mission Gardens did progress to the west, again stopping at the CN spur line. Construction came to a halt during the high interest rate years of 1980 to 1985.

The Inner City beltway that came from what is now CPT, was to come down to Regent/Pandora and cross the tracks to join at Plessis Rd. ( Just where Bernie Wolfe's mother-in-law owned some acreage). At the same time St. Boniface Industrial park was starting and a main entrance was made at Beghin on the S/S of Dugald Rd. SunX was buying properties along Dugald Rd. for future consideration and when he bought the property at the NW corner of what is now Bournais and Dugald, he needed some frontage to build a commercial strip and make it eye appealing to future tennants. This property was located in the District 5 St. Boniface area, and not Transcona's. He had more luck dealing with St. Boniface council, who were looking to populate the new industrial park area just like Inkster Park, and provide more tax dollars coming into their community. Plus Bob from SunX went out on the hook and took options on building commercial properties in the SBIP, which pleased them very much. Bob got his street along his property which provided him with frontage and a divided two lane provided access both coming and going from his development.

CN made a decision to remove the main line siding on the south side that serviced commercial properties and tried to sell their container service to the businesses instead. That didn't go over very well and they pulled out the tracks to show they meant business. That didn't go over to well and the businesses went to truck transport as a means of getting their raw product to their door rather then use CN.

Along about the same time, Transcona had a change of councilor's from Rizzuto to Wyatt (the old man, Reg, not Russ,the kid). Along with Shirley from NK and Vandale from St. Bonny, he was able to get the Bournais deadend extended over the CN WALL to Dugald Rd. (two lanes, but no the less, it was a crossing). I think, one of the promises was that no future crossings were going to interfere with CN's hold on Transcona, and with a stroke of the pen, the Inner City beltway, hit the dirt. Mission Gardens now had access to Dugald Rd to the south.

Access to the north was always the problem, with the Starlite Drive-in taking up a good portion of the land along Regent and when Chipman (Longboat Prop.) purchased it for Birchwood Motors and affiliates to be built as needed. The old VW dealership was to be razed and the roadway would come in a direct line to Bournais, without the zig-zag we have now. The next idea was to purchase the two corner properties on the SW side of Pandora and then cut the corner at the NE corner of Owen (where Birchwood Body Shop now sits) and re-align it with the corner at Regent. The City didn't want to purchase the properties and Longboat was being pushed by Lotteries Manitoba for the Birchwood Honda store next to the Casino, so Birchwood said, we're building a body shop there and that's it, if you want to push us on the Honda property the price is X mil, take it or leave it. Right now they're leaving it, because they have the Park Pontiac property that Jeff Deveris sold them because he didn't want to be in the car business anymore.

You have, what you have in front of Bernie Wolfe School because:

1. The City doesn't want to pay the money to do it right.

2. The people in the area don't want the cross-traffic going through Mission Gardens.

3. Transcona SD is concerned with the kids safety, but they had the choice 30 something years ago to place the school to face north along Rougeau, but they chose to keep it close to the development at the time and not allow any futuristic thinking to sway their thinking at the time.

4. And SteveOsynder is shooting blanks......

How does the history of the development change current conditions? Have you heard of the sunken cost fallacy?

Guess what; I agree, this is a stupid spot for a school, it's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen, but my opinions on the condition/location of the school doesn't change the fact that widening the street for cars to move faster is the dumbest idea ever.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by alittle1

You don't agree with much these days, but if they wait 9 months they can have another brood.

If you really want to know about the history of that roadway, I'LL ENLIGHTEN YOU.

Going way back to the original Mission Gardens Plan days, the two sets of railway tracks were like the Berlin Wall, inpenetrable. Bournais was just a deadend street turning into Hatcher. They expected the Mission Gardens area to develop faster, but it didn't because of funding, no bus service, poor access to Regent, etc. Transcona S.D. decided to build a school and a pool anyways to keep up with Mary Andre's wishes to dedicate a school to Bernie Wolfe (one of Transcona's favourite sons), more taxes dollars poured into a non-revenue producing area. The school was built and the buses that took children to the existing schools within Transcona proper, now took children to the new school for classes from Transcona proper. The bus loop was installed as a two fold deal, hacing city and school buses use it, but returned to only school use during a heated meeting. As time grew on, Mission Gardens did progress to the west, again stopping at the CN spur line. Construction came to a halt during the high interest rate years of 1980 to 1985.

The Inner City beltway that came from what is now CPT, was to come down to Regent/Pandora and cross the tracks to join at Plessis Rd. ( Just where Bernie Wolfe's mother-in-law owned some acreage). At the same time St. Boniface Industrial park was starting and a main entrance was made at Beghin on the S/S of Dugald Rd. SunX was buying properties along Dugald Rd. for future consideration and when he bought the property at the NW corner of what is now Bournais and Dugald, he needed some frontage to build a commercial strip and make it eye appealing to future tennants. This property was located in the District 5 St. Boniface area, and not Transcona's. He had more luck dealing with St. Boniface council, who were looking to populate the new industrial park area just like Inkster Park, and provide more tax dollars coming into their community. Plus Bob from SunX went out on the hook and took options on building commercial properties in the SBIP, which pleased them very much. Bob got his street along his property which provided him with frontage and a divided two lane provided access both coming and going from his development.

CN made a decision to remove the main line siding on the south side that serviced commercial properties and tried to sell their container service to the businesses instead. That didn't go over very well and they pulled out the tracks to show they meant business. That didn't go over to well and the businesses went to truck transport as a means of getting their raw product to their door rather then use CN.

Along about the same time, Transcona had a change of councilor's from Rizzuto to Wyatt (the old man, Reg, not Russ,the kid). Along with Shirley from NK and Vandale from St. Bonny, he was able to get the Bournais deadend extended over the CN WALL to Dugald Rd. (two lanes, but no the less, it was a crossing). I think, one of the promises was that no future crossings were going to interfere with CN's hold on Transcona, and with a stroke of the pen, the Inner City beltway, hit the dirt. Mission Gardens now had access to Dugald Rd to the south.

Access to the north was always the problem, with the Starlite Drive-in taking up a good portion of the land along Regent and when Chipman (Longboat Prop.) purchased it for Birchwood Motors and affiliates to be built as needed. The old VW dealership was to be razed and the roadway would come in a direct line to Bournais, without the zig-zag we have now. The next idea was to purchase the two corner properties on the SW side of Pandora and then cut the corner at the NE corner of Owen (where Birchwood Body Shop now sits) and re-align it with the corner at Regent. The City didn't want to purchase the properties and Longboat was being pushed by Lotteries Manitoba for the Birchwood Honda store next to the Casino, so Birchwood said, we're building a body shop there and that's it, if you want to push us on the Honda property the price is X mil, take it or leave it. Right now they're leaving it, because they have the Park Pontiac property that Jeff Deveris sold them because he didn't want to be in the car business anymore.

You have, what you have in front of Bernie Wolfe School because:

1. The City doesn't want to pay the money to do it right.

2. The people in the area don't want the cross-traffic going through Mission Gardens.

3. Transcona SD is concerned with the kids safety, but they had the choice 30 something years ago to place the school to face north along Rougeau, but they chose to keep it close to the development at the time and not allow any futuristic thinking to sway their thinking at the time.

4. And SteveOsynder is shooting blanks......

Please write a memoir. The fans want to hear more about Winnipeg's interesting histories...

[alittle1]

Originally Posted by steveosnyder

How does the history of the development change current conditions? Have you heard of the sunken cost fallacy?

Guess what; I agree, this is a stupid spot for a school, it's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen, but my opinions on the condition/location of the school doesn't change the fact that widening the street for cars to move faster is the dumbest idea ever.

First of all, you have to get traffic to move. Second, who said anything about faster? Third, see first.

[bomberjet]

haha, I quite enjoyed hearing about the history of the area. I'm of the younger generation, so it's always nice to hear how things came to be, especially all the TFU'd stuff that goes on around here.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by alittle1

First of all, you have to get traffic to move. Second, who said anything about faster? Third, see first.

I appreciate that you know a lot about this, but seriously, it's a school. Making it 4 lanes will make it more dangerous for pedestrians/children. This isn't a commuter corridor, this isn't an arterial street, it doesn't need 4 lanes. It is a neighbourhood street, and it belongs to the neighbourhood.

Sacrificing the neighbourhood just so people can commute through is the worst thing an engineer can do to a neighbourhood. Do you feel the same way about Osborne and/or Corydon? They should be widened so more cars can get downtown? Why should this neighbourhood street be any different?

[alittle1]

Originally Posted by steveosnyder

I appreciate that you know a lot about this, but seriously, it's a school. Making it 4 lanes will make it more dangerous for pedestrians/children. This isn't a commuter corridor, this isn't an arterial street, it doesn't need 4 lanes. It is a neighbourhood street, and it belongs to the neighbourhood.

Sacrificing the neighbourhood just so people can commute through is the worst thing an engineer can do to a neighbourhood. Do you feel the same way about Osborne and/or Corydon? They should be widened so more cars can get downtown? Why should this neighbourhood street be any different?

After the new underpass is built at Plessis (what year are they talking about now , 2015) everything will go back as usual, except for a few clingers who will still use that way. But the roadway should still open up into a four lane: two lanes for the coming and goings of the schools buses and school driving mothers (who have children who can't walk more than a block).

But given the past history, unless a Messiah comes forth for Transcona, I won't expect anything happening in the next 20 years.

[cllew]

If its built to its design width, with on street parking it will effectively be a 2 lane road except for rush hour when all the kids should be home from school anyway.

[Cyro]

Winnipeg underpass is a challenging project

A number of issues have made the construction of a $77 million underpass project on a busy Winnipeg roadway a challenging project.
Work on a $77 million underpass in Winnipeg, Man. has been underway since the spring of 2013. Work on a $77 million underpass in Winnipeg, Man. has been underway since the spring of 2013. - Photo: Myron Love

Plessis Road at Dugald Road in the eastern Winnipeg neighbourhood of Transcona has long been a busy intersection.

Up to 20,000 vehicles pass through it daily.

Train delays have been added to the challenges and delays for motorists passing through that intersection.

A little more than two years ago, the three levels of government announced an ambitious plan to eliminate the traffic tie-ups caused by trains by building an underpass, which would separate trains from motor vehicles, bicycles and pedestrians.

The project was intended to make the area safer and more efficient for all modes of transportation.

One major challenge that has slowed progress was reaching agreement with the CN as well as Shell and Imperial Oil, which own the large oil pipes running through the site.

....Etc...........

"Now we are full steam ahead," Sacher said.

"We are just hoping that the weather becomes more co-operative."

The scheduled completion date is Sept. 1, 2015.


Source

[Reignman]

Should probably change the name of this thread to Plessis Underpass, the interchange concept was unfortunately quashed a long time ago...every time I read the name of this thread it makes me sad thinking of what could have been.

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by Reignman

Should probably change the name of this thread to Plessis Underpass, the interchange concept was unfortunately quashed a long time ago...every time I read the name of this thread it makes me sad thinking of what could have been.

Makes sense, It could take some of the sting out of what may have been as you've mentioned.

PM a MOD. If it's a resonable request they'll make the change. Changes to thread title's are pretty common.

[alittle1]

Most action I saw all summer on the site. At 9:00 this morning, 10 fire trucks and EMT's showed up at the site and it wasn't for coffee. Apparently, someone put a drill bit in the wrong place, perhaps too close to a pipeline or even an old piece of pipeline from 1958. It didn't go boom, but the fireboyz had a little outing.

A completion date by Sept. 2015 seems way off, someone should add a digit to the date. The way work (mis-nomer) has been going the past summer and CN dragging its feet, I would hope that an future endeavour with CN Rail, whereby a track must be relocated, that they chose to go over rather than under.

Given the hind site, that is always 20/20 (even though I predicted it over a year ago), that if the project had gone over instead of under, we would have been driving on the roadway instead of by it, the budget would still be intact, and Transcona wouldn't have another swimming hole, which I will name, THE WYATT HOLE. Now, everyone will know "why-it" was named that way and you can put a period on that point too.

Enjoy your summer construction season, see you in the winter.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by alittle1

Transcona wouldn't have another swimming hole, which I will name, THE WYATT HOLE. Now, everyone will know "why-it" was named that way and you can put a period on that point too.

LOL, that's a good one!

What a mess this project is. At this point in time, it's actually not CN's issue. They're all straightened out, for the most part. It's between the City and the contractors. Anywho, just details. What a screw up. As you said, should've done the overpass. But hindsight is 20/20.

[njaohnt]

Originally Posted by alittle1

Most action I saw all summer on the site. At 9:00 this morning, 10 fire trucks and EMT's showed up at the site and it wasn't for coffee. Apparently, someone put a drill bit in the wrong place, perhaps too close to a pipeline or even an old piece of pipeline from 1958. It didn't go boom, but the fireboyz had a little outing.

Don't tell me that the city will have to pay for that...

[cllew]

That's why contractors pay lots of money for insurance.

If they hit something that was not marked or mismarked (both happen more than they should) then the utility assumes the cost as they made the mistake.

[Spocket]

In every other place on earth this project would have been completed a year ago.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by Spocket

In every other place on earth this project would have been completed a year ago.

Really? Every other place on Earth would have completed this under pass in 3 weeks? Ok......................

There's an interchange by the montreal airport that was supposed to be completed in 4 years. It's been over 4 years after it's started and it's now 6 years behind schedule. There's a brdge to nowhere sitting there for years. If you think construction delays are unique to Winnipeg, you're sorely mistaken.

[mattpa]

my cousin is an engineer in mississauga and they did a project like plesis in 1 week actually so yes it can be done they removed all the dirt around the track because of the go train they left the strip just for the rail and they prebuilt everything and worked 24/7 on site so it was constuntly being built and it was still cheaper then plesis!