How is Melbourne building more towers than California right now?

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by JManc

Was Crocodile Dundee your only exposure to Australia? They have a pretty sophisticated and diverse economy.

Actually, Australia is a notoriously NON-diverse economy ranking 93 out of 133 on the leading relevant metric:

http://atlas.cid.harvard.edu/rankings/

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cou...ic-complexity/

That’s the lowest ranking first world economy by far, behind even New Zealand (rank 51).

As to specifics, Australia is in large part beholden to Chinese educational tourism, Chinese financial investment, resource extraction, and vacation/leisure tourism and not much else at all.

https://www.city-journal.org/austral...ina-dependency
https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconv...n-china-127828

[llamaorama]

Edit: wwmiv was faster than me...

Originally Posted by JManc

Was Crocodile Dundee your only exposure to Australia? They have a pretty sophisticated and diverse economy.

Actually he’s right:

http://atlas.cid.harvard.edu/explore...Year=undefined

[JManc]

I knew Australia was overly dependent on China. To their detriment. Surprised to see they weren't as diverse as I thought. I stand corrected. I have quite a few colleagues down there so I see it from a very different perspective; education, think tanks, etc.

[tayser]

Would an unsophisticated/non-diverse economy - and by extension society (because an economy serves a society, not the other way around) - have devised and implemented a universal healthcare system and now a national disability insurance scheme?

Would an unsophisticated/non-diverse economy and society have devised and implemented a pharmaceutical benefits scheme that makes medical treatments cheaper for the consumers that need it (not to mention, a big player in the R&D side of global pharma sector too)?

Would an unsophisticated/non-diverse economy have devised and implemented a superannuation scheme which gives every working individual control over its retirement savings - and a scheme that now totals $3 trillion under management (for approx. 13 million working people in a country of 25 million people) and said scheme will be supercharged soon because every employee will see their contributions rise from 9.5% to 12% over the next few years?

(side point: Thanks to policy implemented in the 70s and 80s, Australia is now at the point, thanks to the vast amounts of superannuation funds, where it will become a capital exporter rather than the capital importer it's been for over 200 years).

Would an unsophisticated/non-diverse economy ignore its climate-change denying laggard Federal Government and innovate in the private sector through taking advantage of the global trends of cheaper renewable energy technology, and actively design ways for mass movement of transportable renewable energy across the seas to its traditional Asian trading partners in Japan and South Korea?

Would an unsophisticated/non-diverse economy explore ways of using renewable energy to create heat for storage to then to be used either for re-use in electrical generators when the wind isn't blowing or the sun isn't shining or even use in industrial processes that would give Manufacturing 2.0 a green edge?

Nah, you're looking at Australia through the prism of exports and hey, we have a shitload of valuable dirt the world wants - any economy who is in our position would flog the shit out of it as well - there's no denying that. But whatever 'leading' data Havard comes up with is pure cherrypicking because economies and societies are far more complex than its exports or a few pithy lines of attempted argument on a web forum.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

As to specifics, Australia is in large part beholden to Chinese educational tourism, Chinese financial investment, resource extraction, and vacation/leisure tourism and not much else at all.

Wow this is the first I'm hearing of this. That's crazy, it's like if Vancouver was an entire country.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by tayser

Nah, you're looking at Australia through the prism of exports and hey, we have a shitload of valuable dirt the world wants - any economy who is in our position would flog the shit out of it as well - there's no denying that. But whatever 'leading' data Havard comes up with is pure cherrypicking because economies and societies are far more complex than its exports or a few pithy lines of attempted argument on a web forum.

Looking at the lost of most 'complex' economies, it looks like countries towards the top (except for the US) have little in the way of natural resources and agriculture. The US a technological juggernaut otherwise we'd probably be further down the list. I think if the world didn't outsource virtually everything to China, it would be much further down the list.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by The North One

Wow this is the first I'm hearing of this. That's crazy, it's like if Vancouver was an entire country.

Sensationalist press as usual. According to the article, Chinese invested US$ 17 billion in Australia. Australian GDP, however, is at US$ 1.4 trillion.

Australians boost the highest living standards in the world since the 19th century. Chinese investment surge is going on for the past 10 years or so. We really need to put things on perspective.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by tayser

Would an unsophisticated/non-diverse economy - and by extension society (because an economy serves a society, not the other way around) - have devised and implemented a universal healthcare system and now a national disability insurance scheme?

Definitely. Mexico has both. Brazil has both. But both are heavily dependent on resource extraction (and Mexico also on tourism and remittances).

Universal healthcare and national disability are pretty much the norm, even in developing countries. Granted, they might not be Denmark-style high quality systems, but they typically exist.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by mello

What is driving this incredible boom in Melbourne that will look like a mini Chicago when the current UC buildings are finished?

People obviously know what the big industries are in LA and San Francisco but remember that San Diego has thriving Bio Tech, Aerospace/Defense Contractor, and Pharma/Medical research industries. So California being the worlds 5th largest economy and massive tech hub vs. Melbourne a metro in Australia with 5.2 million or so

Both places have high land costs, materials for construction are just as expensive in Oz I assume, and rents or mortgages for high rise accommodation are very high for average residents. So is Melbourne booming due to Chinese or other Asians parking money their? What are the industries pushing the commercial office space growth?

Does Australia have some booming tech sector, where are all the high paying jobs coming from to push the demand for all of these projects? Is it simply finance and mining? Pardon my ignorance about the Australian economy I just find it funny that this city is blowing away SF, LA, and SD combined.

So we have examples of foreign money and speculation pushing a boom: Vancouver, Miami. (Miami also a retirement and lifestyle destination in Winter) We have true organic high wage growth jobs rushing in to a city facilitating a boom: Seattle. Where does Melbourne fit in this paradigm?

Oh god, just an FYI while foreign money and speculation has been a major factor in Vancouver a naturally growing economy that has been experiencing a healthy boom over the last few years has also been a major factor. In fact Vancouver is currently in the midst of the largest office tower boom it has had in decades. The recent Amazon announcement (potentially 12 000 higher wage positions) has heaped some fresh coal onto the fire this season. There is is reason why Microsoft and Amazon are pushing for and even hosting events for a full HSR connection between Seattle and Vancouver.

Some of the current office tower projects underway in Vancouver:

B6: 31 Floors


BENTALLGREENOAK - An aerial rendering of the 32-storey office tower being built in downtown Vancouver.

601 W Hastings: 25 Floors



The Post: This entire office complex I believe is going to be used by Amazon.


https://www.thepostnews.ca/

The Stack: 36 Floors



753 Seymour: 32 Floors


http://www.vancouvercentre.com/building/#efficiency

320 Granville Street: 32 Floors



410 W. Georgia Street: 23 Floors


https://twitter.com/westbankcorp

And there are many more soon to commence and many many more currently u/c under 20 floors.

If the Vancouver boom and the economy in the region was simply due to speculation and Chinese investors, then why the need for new office space? Currently nearly 5 million square feet U/C which is unheard of for Vancouver.

[wwmiv]

There is no city in the world outside of China where the growth is entirely due or even majority due to Chinese investment. There are cities that see a larger share than others, Vancouver and Melbourne among them.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

If the Vancouver boom and the economy in the region was simply due to speculation and Chinese investors, then why the need for new office space? Currently nearly 5 million square feet U/C which is unheard of for Vancouver.

Vancouver doesn't have much office space. The mini-burst is probably related to U.S. immigration restrictions and the H-1B visa problem, given that tech companies are concentrated on the West Coast.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

There is no city in the world outside of China where the growth is entirely due or even majority due to Chinese investment. There are cities that see a larger share than others, Vancouver and Melbourne among them.

Agree, but sadly there are many on this forum who do think that is true.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Agree, but sadly there are many on this forum who do think that is true.

The difference between the two cities, however, is that Melbourne not only has the same Chinese offshoring but also plays a central role in the 2 million Chinese nationals currently being educated by Australia’s universities, schools, and technical programs.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...cation-sector/

2 million in a country of 25 million, and that 2 million doesn’t include Chinese immigrants whose permanent residence is in Australia.

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Vancouver doesn't have much office space. The mini-burst is probably related to U.S. immigration restrictions and the H-1B visa problem, given that tech companies are concentrated on the West Coast.

Which are still legitimate growth factors given Canada has and probably will continue to less restrictive on immigration policy.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i don't know, how is stagnant-ass chicago building more skyscrapers than the entire BOOMING state of texas (or california for that matter)?


some cities just seem to have skyscrapers in their DNA.

True, the US doesn't doesn't really build that many skyscrapers outside of NY or Chicago, they exist obviously, even some 300+ meter ones, but when you take into account how massive the USA is, it measures up poorly compared to places like Australia, maybe Canada and definitely the UAE.

Australia and Canada have 25-35 million people, UAE has around 10. Considering the USA has 330 million, I'd expect a lot more honestly.

Ideally places like Houston/Dallas/LA would have several 3-350 meter buildings by now.

[Nite]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

True, the US doesn't doesn't really build that many skyscrapers outside of NY or Chicago, they exist obviously, even some 300+ meter ones, but when you take into account how massive the USA is, it measures up poorly compared to places like Australia, maybe Canada and definitely the UAE.

Australia and Canada have 25-35 million people, UAE has around 10. Considering the USA has 330 million, I'd expect a lot more honestly.

Ideally places like Houston/Dallas/LA would have several 3-350 meter buildings by now.

As per SSP, here are the stats for 150m+ under construction skyscrapers:

United States: 92
Canada: 63
UAE: 46
Australia: 32

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

True, the US doesn't doesn't really build that many skyscrapers outside of NY or Chicago

and miami.

of the 166 buildings over 150m that are U/C or recently completed (2017+) in the US according to the CTBUH, 70% of them are in metro NYC, metro miami, and chicago.


metro NYC - 66
metro miami - 35
chicago - 17
LA - 7
seattle - 7
SF - 6
boston - 5
houston - 5
austin - 4
philly - 4
minneapolis - 2
atlanta - 1
baltimore - 1
charlotte - 1
dallas - 1
denver - 1
las vegas - 1
milwaukee - 1
nashville - 1

[pdxtex]

Melbourne is nearly 40 percent foreign born and has a very young median age. I'd guess it more aligns with high density Asian city ethics than nimby happy, hoop jumping American city planning.

[JManc]

Speaking for Houston, there's little demand or desire for tall buildings anymore. For residential, 40 stories is pretty much the max and for commercial, developers prefer office parks and stumpy 20-30 story office towers scattered around town.

The few 500+ footers going up are an anomaly looked at with awe, confusion and fear.

[dc_denizen]

Denial is not just a river in Egypt it seems

Make a valid point about the obvious connection between global safe haven demand and high rise booms in say Vancouver and Melbourne and the homers will come out of the woodwork

2 million mainland Chinese students ?! Good lord