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  #121  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 2:00 PM
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PhillyRising PhillyRising is offline
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
We pay between 2.5% and 2.7% on our houses. Pretty high. People think they are saving without an income tax but they get you other ways...
I have always said this. Texas just taxes things that can't move but in the end you will pay.

When you tax income, the jobs can move. That's what happened to Philadelphia. In the 1960's and 70's they kept raising taxes on income and business but wouldn't raise property taxes. So the jobs moved and then so did the people. If they had raised the property taxes on homes and commercial property but kept the income and business taxes lower, the decline would not have been as immense.
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  #122  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 3:47 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by PhillyRising View Post
I have always said this. Texas just taxes things that can't move but in the end you will pay.

When you tax income, the jobs can move. That's what happened to Philadelphia. In the 1960's and 70's they kept raising taxes on income and business but wouldn't raise property taxes. So the jobs moved and then so did the people. If they had raised the property taxes on homes and commercial property but kept the income and business taxes lower, the decline would not have been as immense.
Because companies don't vote.
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  #123  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 4:01 PM
jtown,man jtown,man is offline
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I much prefer higher property taxes over income taxes.

People naturally want to make more money. But making more money means more taxes. However, people will obviously(besides some very specific cases) take a say 10k raise on a 80k income. Basically, you can't control how much you are being taxed.

Property taxes give the majority of the population a choice. My mom and dad made a choice that kept their taxes down. My dad made pretty good money yet lived in a relatively modest home in San Antonio. He could have moved into a home that was 2x as expensive but he would increase his tax bill 2x too.
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  #124  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 4:03 PM
jtown,man jtown,man is offline
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Because companies don't vote.
Oh, but they do. They vote with their feet.

Taxes are like mall rents. I've never understood why these malls just don't stop increasing their rents to stop the stores from leaving. Same with taxes, some places can keep high taxes because they offer so much(NYC, SF come to mind). But places like Arkansas actually have pretty high taxes(middle range I believe) yet offer zero. Why would a business stay in a place like that? It makes no sense.
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  #125  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 4:20 PM
Investing In Chicago Investing In Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
I much prefer higher property taxes over income taxes.

People naturally want to make more money. But making more money means more taxes. However, people will obviously(besides some very specific cases) take a say 10k raise on a 80k income. Basically, you can't control how much you are being taxed.

Property taxes give the majority of the population a choice. My mom and dad made a choice that kept their taxes down. My dad made pretty good money yet lived in a relatively modest home in San Antonio. He could have moved into a home that was 2x as expensive but he would increase his tax bill 2x too.
Bingo. Plus the advantage of being able to write off property taxes.
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  #126  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 4:22 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
Oh, but they do. They vote with their feet.

Taxes are like mall rents. I've never understood why these malls just don't stop increasing their rents to stop the stores from leaving. Same with taxes, some places can keep high taxes because they offer so much(NYC, SF come to mind). But places like Arkansas actually have pretty high taxes(middle range I believe) yet offer zero. Why would a business stay in a place like that? It makes no sense.
Yes and no. A politician is more likely to receive feedback (i.e. voted out of office) from a tax hike that directly affects voters. The effect of a policy decision on businesses will be delayed and may not occur until after the policy makers have left office.

But the bottom line is that bills need to be paid. Companies playing governments off of one another for tax breaks is just as bad as governments misusing taxpayer funds.
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  #127  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 4:59 PM
Investing In Chicago Investing In Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Yes and no. A politician is more likely to receive feedback (i.e. voted out of office) from a tax hike that directly affects voters. The effect of a policy decision on businesses will be delayed and may not occur until after the policy makers have left office.

But the bottom line is that bills need to be paid. Companies playing governments off of one another for tax breaks is just as bad as governments misusing taxpayer funds.
So let me see if I understand you correctly; a company that leaves California to set up shop in Texas because of tax savings is just as bad as a politician spending tax payer money on lavish vacations or private jets? That is completely insane.
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  #128  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 5:15 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago View Post
So let me see if I understand you correctly; a company that leaves California to set up shop in Texas because of tax savings is just as bad as a politician spending tax payer money on lavish vacations or private jets? That is completely insane.
But you think it's fine for companies to encourage governments to undercut each other and stick taxpayers with the bill?
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  #129  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 5:17 PM
Investing In Chicago Investing In Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
But you think it's fine for companies to encourage governments to undercut each other and stick taxpayers with the bill?
You just made that up, I never said that nor implied that. Take my comment at face value - a corrupt politician misusing tax payer funds is significantly worse (and illegal) than a company looking for a tax break.
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  #130  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 5:21 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago View Post
You just made that up, I never said that nor implied that. Take my comment at face value - a corrupt politician misusing tax payer funds is significantly worse (and illegal) than a company looking for a tax break.
You made up your scenario. I'm not sure what you're actually arguing about but, yeah, I said what I said.
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