Toronto's Ethnic Buffet

[PFloyd]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

Gee, thanks.

Just like in France, there is wide variety of accents within the french langage spoken in Quebec, ranging from almost-like-Paris accent to very provincial joual.

In my case, for exemple, I don't change my accent at all when I'M in France and I have never had any problem being understood, even though they can detect the accent. Nobody in France never told me that my accent was awful and unintelligible. I guess I have to go to Toronto to get that. Ironic to read such a comment in a thread that celebrates Toronto's multi ethnicity

OK, let's not get carried away. I didn't mean to offend; I was just asking about the reception the accent gets in France, since people were talking about French accents.

[rousseau]

Thanks for those videos.

Originally Posted by PFloyd

Interesting. I always wondered what the French thought of French-Canadian (Quebecois/Joual) accent found in Quebec. I personally thinks it sounds awful.

Thing is, though, North American accents in English sound awful by comparison with middle-class London accents. Seriously, have you ever heard Canadians or Americans speaking English? It's wretched.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

Ironic to read such a comment in a thread that celebrates Toronto's multi ethnicity

Touché!

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by PFloyd

I was just asking about the reception the accent gets in France, since people were talking about French accents.

It depends. Some people find it cute, some people can't stand it. The reaction to Québécois accent in France is a bit the same as the reaction to British accent in the US. Very varied, from cute to awful.

And then as Martin Mtl said, there are various accents in Québec, but they are mostly class-based, not so much regionally based (at least not that I can hear). People speaking on Radio Canada in French have usually a very pleasant accent to listen to, very neutral. Working-class street accent may be harder on the ears.

For example the anchorwoman from Radio Canada here has a rather neutral accent:

• Video Link

This sounds also very neutral (French Canadians, when they sing, tend to lose their accent, I've never understood why, to the point that people listening to this on the radio in France often have no clue it comes from Canada):

• Video Link

This, however, would drive a French person insane rather quickly:

• Video Link

[Martin Mtl]

Agreed. Even I, sometimes, may have problems to understand very accentuated quebecois accent. The analogy between british and american accents is very valid.

[memph]

I don't have a hard time understanding Les Invisibles, at least compared to some of the French ones (Paris suburbs, working class (woman, Thibault is ok), even Toulouse). It's the slang I have a bit of a hard time with, I learned french from speaking with family mostly, not in school where slang would have been used more (school was english).

[Dr Nevergold]

Originally Posted by muppet

I've noticed alot of the French (in England) now say "oueh" instead of "oui", not just the young but the middle aged too. Is that a new thing, or one that's been around for ages (equivalent to 'yeah' and 'yes'?)

Interesting, as you find people saying that in Quebec and in other areas of Canada where french is spoken.

[muppet]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Thanks for those videos.


Thing is, though, North American accents in English sound awful by comparison with middle-class London accents. Seriously, have you ever heard Canadians or Americans speaking English? It's wretched.

OMG NO. Just about every English accent sounds crap to me, and Im a Brit. Scouse or Geordie has shedloads of character, but I wouldnt call it a 'nice' accent. I can't stand Northern speak (Yaarkshire especially) - I rather unfairly equate them to right wing miseducation (pedal faaster granpaa, teevee's on't blink! or 'we tells it 'ow it is, aye!' or 'I ain't go no satnav! Naw woman tells me what t'doo, naaw!'). Midlands is universally awful, and slow/stupid sounding as they draw out every word (owrrroyt muuuyt, noice ak-senttt muuuyt) Southwest accents sound like bumpkins (oy, 'owz the zoider cummin along? I'se likes a zloice of bread wiv moy buh-er), an' sarf east ones zr all workin class, in a bad way, innit. Gimme those chips yer tosser. Wiv a pint Astella. Posh English accents are the worst - oew so wimpy. Judgemental my dear. And out. Of. Touch.

Middle class English sounds completely neutral to me, doesn't evoke anything, good or bad.

Give me Scottish, Irish, Canadian, American, which sound warmer if not always softer. But that's just me. Welsh is a 50-50 - Swansea and Cardiff are great, North Wales= bumpkin. Aussies too - there's a real subtlety I detect in the different ways they sound their vowels, and the rising inflection is warm and lilting - though can sound whiny in the wrong voice. Bogans though butcher it into abruptness and harsh sounding.

ANY accent if it's in a whiny (eg the Californian bimbo/ Welsh tart-with-a-heart stereotype) or braying voice (eg the South African rugger crowd/ Eton educated politician/ Glasgow drunk stereotype) sounds crap though, regardless of where it's from.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by muppet

I can't stand Northern speak (Yaarkshire especially) - I rather unfairly equate them to right wing miseducation (pedal faaster granpaa, teevee's on't blink! or 'we tells it 'ow it is, aye!' or 'I ain't go no satnav! Naw woman tells me what t'doo, naaw!').

Isn't the North a traditionally left wing region? Working class unions and all that? Maybe some social conservatism, but at least economic leftism?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by muppet

OMG NO. Just about every English accent sounds crap to me, and Im a Brit. Scouse or Geordie has shedloads of character, but I wouldnt call it a 'nice' accent. I can't stand Northern speak (Yaarkshire especially) - I rather unfairly equate them to right wing miseducation (pedal faaster granpaa, teevee's on't blink! or 'we tells it 'ow it is, aye!' or 'I ain't go no satnav! Naw woman tells me what t'doo, naaw!'). Midlands is universally awful, and slow/stupid sounding as they draw out every word (owrrroyt muuuyt, noice ak-senttt muuuyt) Southwest accents sound like bumpkins (oy, 'owz the zoider cummin along? I'se likes a zloice of bread wiv moy buh-er), an' sarf east ones zr all workin class, in a bad way, innit. Gimme those chips yer tosser. Wiv a pint Astella. Posh English accents are the worst - oew so wimpy. Judgemental my dear. And out. Of. Touch.

Middle class English sounds completely neutral to me, doesn't evoke anything, good or bad.

Give me Scottish, Irish, Canadian, American, which sound warmer if not always softer. But that's just me. Welsh is a 50-50 - Swansea and Cardiff are great, North Wales= bumpkin. Aussies too - there's a real subtlety I detect in the different ways they sound their vowels, and the rising inflection is warm and lilting - though can sound whiny in the wrong voice. Bogans though butcher it into abruptness and harsh sounding.

ANY accent if it's in a whiny (eg the Californian bimbo/ Welsh tart-with-a-heart stereotype) or braying voice (eg the South African rugger crowd/ Eton educated politician/ Glasgow drunk stereotype) sounds crap though, regardless of where it's from.

So which accent do you like in the end?

Personally I like plain American accent. BBC English can be 'listenable' too. But that ends here. Can't stand the regional British accents, Irish accent, Australian accent, Indian English accent (probably the worst in the world). Caribbean English accent can be fun to listen to sometimes (but only sometimes).

In French, I like the French Polynesian accent a lot. It sounds very pleasant and refreshing.

• Video Link

Here all the people interviewed have the French Polynesian accent (but not the journalist woman making the comments, who has a standard French accent):

• Video Link

[muppet]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Isn't the North a traditionally left wing region? Working class unions and all that? Maybe some social conservatism, but at least economic leftism?

the north is 'left wing' in terms of proletariat and strong trade union tradition. However in terms of race relations it's worse - where the country's last race riots a decade ago took place in a background of inequality, poverty and self segregation (now much improved). It's a stereoptype for old Northerners to be a bit / or completely racist/ sexist/ homophobic etc.

[muppet]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

So which accent do you like in the end?

I think my fave is Irish, Scottish, soft spoken American or Swansea Welsh.

The Polynesian French accent sounds ace too, I always liked Provencal. I've known some French friends and theyre from Grenoble and Strasbourg, the young ones speak a bit ethnic French, the older ones not, but it always sounds great. French in general sounds good to me, even the Parisian working class one, though can be harsh, is lilting and crisp.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by muppet

OMG NO. Just about every English accent sounds crap to me, and Im a Brit. Scouse or Geordie has shedloads of character, but I wouldnt call it a 'nice' accent. I can't stand Northern speak (Yaarkshire especially) - I rather unfairly equate them to right wing miseducation (pedal faaster granpaa, teevee's on't blink! or 'we tells it 'ow it is, aye!' or 'I ain't go no satnav! Naw woman tells me what t'doo, naaw!'). Midlands is universally awful, and slow/stupid sounding as they draw out every word (owrrroyt muuuyt, noice ak-senttt muuuyt) Southwest accents sound like bumpkins (oy, 'owz the zoider cummin along? I'se likes a zloice of bread wiv moy buh-er), an' sarf east ones zr all workin class, in a bad way, innit. Gimme those chips yer tosser. Wiv a pint Astella. Posh English accents are the worst - oew so wimpy. Judgemental my dear. And out. Of. Touch.

Middle class English sounds completely neutral to me, doesn't evoke anything, good or bad.

I could visualize those all perfectly. Though I didn't realize the Midlands and Southwestern ones were regional accents, I thought they were more class/cultural-based. I still like them all though.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by muppet

OMG NO. Just about every English accent sounds crap to me, and Im a Brit. Scouse or Geordie has shedloads of character, but I wouldnt call it a 'nice' accent. I can't stand Northern speak (Yaarkshire especially) - I rather unfairly equate them to right wing miseducation (pedal faaster granpaa, teevee's on't blink! or 'we tells it 'ow it is, aye!' or 'I ain't go no satnav! Naw woman tells me what t'doo, naaw!'). Midlands is universally awful, and slow/stupid sounding as they draw out every word (owrrroyt muuuyt, noice ak-senttt muuuyt) Southwest accents sound like bumpkins (oy, 'owz the zoider cummin along? I'se likes a zloice of bread wiv moy buh-er), an' sarf east ones zr all workin class, in a bad way, innit. Gimme those chips yer tosser. Wiv a pint Astella. Posh English accents are the worst - oew so wimpy. Judgemental my dear. And out. Of. Touch.

Middle class English sounds completely neutral to me, doesn't evoke anything, good or bad.

Give me Scottish, Irish, Canadian, American, which sound warmer if not always softer. But that's just me. Welsh is a 50-50 - Swansea and Cardiff are great, North Wales= bumpkin. Aussies too - there's a real subtlety I detect in the different ways they sound their vowels, and the rising inflection is warm and lilting - though can sound whiny in the wrong voice. Bogans though butcher it into abruptness and harsh sounding.

ANY accent if it's in a whiny (eg the Californian bimbo/ Welsh tart-with-a-heart stereotype) or braying voice (eg the South African rugger crowd/ Eton educated politician/ Glasgow drunk stereotype) sounds crap though, regardless of where it's from.

Heh heh...grass is greener and all that. Seriously, though, North American accents sound like people chewing gum through their noses. The Canadian accent sounds like people chewing gum through their noses who are a bit simple. There's no pleasant or delightful accent in North America to listen to, and there are several nails-on-chalkboard awful ones like Chicago, the American south and "hip-hop" African-American. You could argue that the stereotypical New York Jewish intellectual accent has real character and gravitas, though.

I disagree about the West country burr, but that might be because XTC are one of my all time favourite bands, and I've always loved listening to Andy Partridge talk about anything. And James May from Top Gear--sure, the presenters are twats, and it's a show for twats, but you can't argue that the way James May speaks is really pleasant to listen to.

But your standard middle-class London accent as typified by, say, the comedian David Mitchell, is essentially the gold standard for accents in English. It's the nicest to listen to, and anyway, it has the weight of its legacy of importance behind it as any "standard" London accent must (i.e. in the way that the middle-class London accent must by definition have a priori pride of place in English--naturally the specific mechanics of it have evolved over the years/centuries). This is the reason that North Americans find London accents authoritative, even if the Londoner is talking rubbish. Of course, over here people call everything a "British accent" without consciously differentiating between Christiane Amanpour and Ali G, even if subconsciously they understand that the one sounds authoritative and the other doesn't.

Booyakasha!

[dc_denizen]

My favorite French accent is Will Mackenzie's, from the Inbetweeners:

From 2:10 onwards:

• Video Link

[Gresto]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Heh heh...grass is greener and all that. Seriously, though, North American accents sound like people chewing gum through their noses. The Canadian accent sounds like people chewing gum through their noses who are a bit simple.

I would argue that Canadians in many parts of the country have no discernible accent whatsoever. The same applies to large swaths of the States. I also to varying degrees dislike accents found on Canada's east coast, in the American South (appalling), ebonics, and the coarse regional tones of New Yawk, Chicago, Boston (get into yower cah). The northern Midwest (Minnesota, N. Dakota, etc.), which sounds much like the stereotypical Canadian accent, has a whimsical quality.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by muppet

I think my fave is Irish, Scottish, soft spoken American or Swansea Welsh.

The Polynesian French accent sounds ace too, I always liked Provencal. I've known some French friends and theyre from Grenoble and Strasbourg, the young ones speak a bit ethnic French, the older ones not, but it always sounds great. French in general sounds good to me, even the Parisian working class one, though can be harsh, is lilting and crisp.

Interesting..Now I really like Fergie's accent..Is that a typical London accent?
I enjoy listening to that certain British accent with that soft singing quality..I thought Fergie may have really showed it in her past Weight Watcher's commercials..

Also,I really get a kick out of people dissing other people's accents when they have one themselves..Really? Nobody's excluded from having some sort of accent.
Someone from say Southern Ontario mocking someone from say Chicago for the way they talk is like an overweight person telling someone else they need to go on a diet

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Gresto

I would argue that Canadians in many parts of the country have no discernible accent whatsoever.

What a weird thing to say. Everyone has an accent. There's no such thing as "not having an accent."

[fflint]

Originally Posted by Gresto

Boston (get into yower cah).

Yower? Two syllables and an 'r' at the end of the word? Not in Boston. "Your" in the traditional Boston accent rhymes with "maw," not mower. And in your phrase here, the Bostonians I know would clip even the traditional pronunciation to speed things up: Get inta y'cah.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Gresto

I would argue that Canadians in many parts of the country have no discernible accent whatsoever. The same applies to large swaths of the States. I also to varying degrees dislike accents found on Canada's east coast, in the American South (appalling), ebonics, and the coarse regional tones of New Yawk, Chicago, Boston (get into yower cah). The northern Midwest (Minnesota, N. Dakota, etc.), which sounds much like the stereotypical Canadian accent, has a whimsical quality.

You're just about the opposite of me then. The standard middle class North American accent is fine, but I love the gruff US east coast accents, genteel Southern accents (eg. New Orleans & Charleston), most black American accents, and even the old school hillbilly accent is kinda charming, as well as the Nova Scotian, St. John's, and newer Toronto accents.

On the other hand, the US great lakes accents (from Minnesota to Buffalo) are just excruciating. By far the worst thing in the English language. The more typically modern Southern US accents and hoser Canadian ones also sound sloppy and dumb. Montreal's Italian accent bothers me for some reason too.