Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We need to make downtown more attractive to a broader audience, both in the daytime and the evening. I lament that they closed all the movie theatres downtown. I am not a bar person, but I like doing a movie and dinner. I did it this evening. I used to go to the World Exchange, which gave us an excuse to try a restaurant downtown. It is symptom of the decline of downtown and how it does not attract people from the broader city like it used to.

We have made parking more difficult and more expensive, but the part of the city with direct all-day transit to downtown is about to plummet. I know the 'transfers are good for us' crowd on this site, but the average joe does not like transfers especially when service is not frequent. As we all know, the frequent network does not extend beyond 6 pm. We might as well roll up the sidewalks for the evening.

You and I must be going to different downtowns, because as a person who goes downtime fairly regularly outside of just work, I'd say it seems much livelier than it did 25 years ago. I do kind of wish there'd be a movie theatre downtown as well, a new one along the lines of Lansdowne, but it's easily better in the core than it used to be. It helps that there's actually people who live in the core now, there used to be no residents at all north of Gloucester. And the O Train will help, but there's plenty of free parking downtown on weekends at World Exchange and City Hall so it's not hard to drive at all.

What has declined is the shopping arcades inside the office towers at Place De Ville, L'Esplanade Laurier, and 240 Sparks, but that's no different than the decline of the small indoor mall everywhere, but those ones you can't replace with big box stores like they did with Pinecrest Mall

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We need to make downtown more attractive to a broader audience, both in the daytime and the evening. I lament that they closed all the movie theatres downtown. I am not a bar person, but I like doing a movie and dinner. I did it this evening. I used to go to the World Exchange, which gave us an excuse to try a restaurant downtown. It is symptom of the decline of downtown and how it does not attract people from the broader city like it used to.

Going downtown to see a movie didn't die because of transit. It died when big box movie theaters came to the suburbs. Along with chain restaurants in their lots.

You may like going downtown to a movie. But you're probably more exception than the norm.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

...have made parking more difficult and more expensive, but the part of the city with direct all-day transit to downtown is about to plummet. I know the 'transfers are good for us' crowd on this site, but the average joe does not like transfers especially when service is not frequent. As we all know, the frequent network does not extend beyond 6 pm. We might as well roll up the sidewalks for the evening.

Again, find me a city that doesn't rely on core residents, but commuters, to build a level of activity in their downtown core.

And find me a city where the transit system was built prioritizing downtown activity over efficient peak-period commuting.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I don't think anyone disagrees that Sparks is reasonably lively during office hours, but how many of those are consistently open in the evening?

I don't understand how more residents would help much. How many businesses can a few hundred residents support?

I'm talking a proper mix of commercial and residential space. I'm talking 20,000 more residential units.

In the evening, all of the bar patios are open for business, and many of them are surprisingly full. The afternoon office hours busy times are their bread and butter, but having a proper mix of residential would help dramatically. PLUS to bring it back to the topic, the Confederation Line will hopefully help

[ars]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

You and I must be going to different downtowns, because as a person who goes downtime fairly regularly outside of just work, I'd say it seems much livelier than it did 25 years ago. I do kind of wish there'd be a movie theatre downtown as well, a new one along the lines of Lansdowne, but it's easily better in the core than it used to be. It helps that there's actually people who live in the core now, there used to be no residents at all north of Gloucester. And the O Train will help, but there's plenty of free parking downtown on weekends at World Exchange and City Hall so it's not hard to drive at all.

What has declined is the shopping arcades inside the office towers at Place De Ville, L'Esplanade Laurier, and 240 Sparks, but that's no different than the decline of the small indoor mall everywhere, but those ones you can't replace with big box stores like they did with Pinecrest Mall

I agree, you don't even need to go as far back as 25 years ago, I think downtown Ottawa today has more life in it than just 10-15 years ago.

I also think that there should be a movie theater downtown, the Cineplex on Lansdowne just doesn't cut it, especially since there will be no rail service to Lansdowne.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

I'm talking a proper mix of commercial and residential space. I'm talking 20,000 more residential units.

In the evening, all of the bar patios are open for business, and many of them are surprisingly full. The afternoon office hours busy times are their bread and butter, but having a proper mix of residential would help dramatically. PLUS to bring it back to the topic, the Confederation Line will hopefully help

Where are they going to put 20k residential units anywhere near sparks street?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by ars

I also think that there should be a movie theater downtown, the Cineplex on Lansdowne just doesn't cut it, especially since there will be no rail service to Lansdowne.

Movie theatres are like the Hallmark Store previously discussed; it might be good for local residents but is not an attraction for people to go downtown (unless it is a repertory theatre). Venues for live productions/events (be it music, theatre or even sports) would be a better draw. While you can show the same movie in multiple locations at the same time, live productions can only be in one place at a time, so performing it at a central location (like downtown) makes a lot of sense, and will draw people in.

[McC]

maybe it's a generational thing? I grew up with downtown theaters, and I would much rather go to movie downtown, where I can go someplace nice for a drink/bite before or after than at a suburban power centre. My cinema attendance declined in line with the closure of all of the downtown theaters.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

In the evening, all of the bar patios are open for business

This is not even remotely the case on Sparks, where patio activity has dropped off quite noticeably in the past four or five years.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

You and I must be going to different downtowns, because as a person who goes downtime fairly regularly outside of just work, I'd say it seems much livelier than it did 25 years ago. I do kind of wish there'd be a movie theatre downtown as well, a new one along the lines of Lansdowne, but it's easily better in the core than it used to be. It helps that there's actually people who live in the core now, there used to be no residents at all north of Gloucester. And the O Train will help, but there's plenty of free parking downtown on weekends at World Exchange and City Hall so it's not hard to drive at all.

What has declined is the shopping arcades inside the office towers at Place De Ville, L'Esplanade Laurier, and 240 Sparks, but that's no different than the decline of the small indoor mall everywhere, but those ones you can't replace with big box stores like they did with Pinecrest Mall

Maybe downtown is better than 25 years ago. I did not say it wasn't, but we can always do better, much better. I am old enough to remember the theatre line ups at downtown cinemas. Some of those people also went to nearby restaurants. We always did.


The end of the downtown movie theatres was just one less attraction for going downtown in the evening.


That is only one thing. I said we need a more diversity of attractions downtown. We already have a large number of restaurants and bars. That attracts one type of crowd.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Going downtown to see a movie didn't die because of transit. It died when big box movie theaters came to the suburbs. Along with chain restaurants in their lots.

You may like going downtown to a movie. But you're probably more exception than the norm.



Again, find me a city that doesn't rely on core residents, but commuters, to build a level of activity in their downtown core.

And find me a city where the transit system was built prioritizing downtown activity over efficient peak-period commuting.

All I was saying is that we need a diversity of attractions downtown. Movie theatres are but one attraction.

Sure, we need more residents close to downtown, but we also need accessibility as well.

You don't think the subways in Toronto and Montreal don't help animate downtowns in those cities?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by McC

maybe it's a generational thing? I grew up with downtown theaters, and I would much rather go to movie downtown, where I can go someplace nice for a drink/bite before or after than at a suburban power centre. My cinema attendance declined in line with the closure of all of the downtown theaters.

The same with me. When South Keys Cinemas opened (a 5 minute drive from my house), I thought I would go to the cinema more often. I have gone less often, and most of the time now, I travel to other cinemas. Going elsewhere including the World Exchange was more enticing because it was more of an evening out and the restaurant choices were better. Despite the convenience of chain restaurants, they get tiresome pretty quickly.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

I'm talking a proper mix of commercial and residential space. I'm talking 20,000 more residential units.

In the evening, all of the bar patios are open for business, and many of them are surprisingly full. The afternoon office hours busy times are their bread and butter, but having a proper mix of residential would help dramatically. PLUS to bring it back to the topic, the Confederation Line will hopefully help

Twenty thousand on Sparks, near Sparks or downtown? I'm not sure how realistic that is. Even RVL's LeBreton only has 4,000 units

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Where are they going to put 20k residential units anywhere near sparks street?

The lifeless and barren West end at Lyon?

Anytime something is replaced, it should be replaced with part residential see RE: Residences.

The soon to be empty gigantic lot at Queen and Kent.

I'm not saying snap your fingers and voila 20k units. Its a policy change and an ongoing process. If you want a complete community, you need a mix.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

This is not even remotely the case on Sparks, where patio activity has dropped off quite noticeably in the past four or five years.

Tell that to my mother and law and I, when we waited in a line get this: after hours on a Thursday (!!) to get a seat at one of your so-called 'low-activity' bars.

And couple that in the summer with 5k people nightly taking in the 'Northern Lights' on parliament hill, absolutely FLOODING sparks street with patrons, and you've got a fantastic summer lineup.

Uhuniau, when's the last time you took in an NAC show and tried to get a drink at D'Arcy Mcgees afterwards? I guarantee you that its difficult to find a seat upstairs and you're stuck with the mop-water smelling basement, unless you keep walking to wait in line at Biermarkt for a table, or heaven forbid try to go to Riviera and get laughed at for not making reservations a month in advance.

How do I know this? Experience.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Tell that to my mother and law and I, when we waited in a line get this: after hours on a Thursday (!!) to get a seat at one of your so-called 'low-activity' bars.

And couple that in the summer with 5k people nightly taking in the 'Northern Lights' on parliament hill, absolutely FLOODING sparks street with patrons, and you've got a fantastic summer lineup.

Uhuniau, when's the last time you took in an NAC show and tried to get a drink at D'Arcy Mcgees afterwards? I guarantee you that its difficult to find a seat upstairs and you're stuck with the mop-water smelling basement, unless you keep walking to wait in line at Biermarkt for a table, or heaven forbid try to go to Riviera and get laughed at for not making reservations a month in advance.

How do I know this? Experience.

Most of those are one off activities or events. If you go down there on a random evening it is pretty dead most of the time.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

The lifeless and barren West end at Lyon?

Anytime something is replaced, it should be replaced with part residential see RE: Residences.

The soon to be empty gigantic lot at Queen and Kent.

I'm not saying snap your fingers and voila 20k units. Its a policy change and an ongoing process. If you want a complete community, you need a mix.

That’s a few hundred units, which will not impact Sparks much (if at all).

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Most of those are one off activities or events. If you go down there on a random evening it is pretty dead most of the time.

Outside of Time Square there are tons of areas of Manhattan that are dead 5-7 nights as well. Doesn't mean it isn't a vibrant urban landscape. I don't think any of us want to live in a neighbourhood with constant car/foot traffic and jammed up restaurants/bars to the point that you can't get in. Ottawa's got a long way to go but Centretown and CBC are much more active than they were around 2000 when I was in undergrad.

[lrt's friend]

Historically, there were not tremendous numbers of residences within easy walking distance of Sparks or downtown Rideau. Sure, many residences were displaced with office buildings and parking lots, but most of those residences were low rise houses.


Where did downtown get all its patrons in the old days? I will tell you. My mother walked to the streetcar from the outskirts of semi-rural Billings Bridge and took it downtown. It was more than commuting. It was also for fun activities as well.


I have been commenting that we have to make it easy to go downtown for as many people as possible.


I was looking at an old streetcar schedule and streetcars ran every 12 minutes until after midnight. Now, most central bus routes don't even run to midnight and service is often every half hour in the evening.


There should be more to this city's transit system than the 13 station Confederation Line.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey

Outside of Time Square there are tons of areas of Manhattan that are dead 5-7 nights as well. Doesn't mean it isn't a vibrant urban landscape. I don't think any of us want to live in a neighbourhood with constant car/foot traffic and jammed up restaurants/bars to the point that you can't get in. Ottawa's got a long way to go but Centretown and CBC are much more active than they were around 2000 when I was in undergrad.

That was not my experience with Manhattan when I went there a year ago. There were lots of people out on the streets in the evenings. Yes, I was at Time Square one evening, but I was elsewhere as well. That is the one thing I immediately noticed. The number of pedestrians, day and night. I am not saying that Manhattan is crowded with pedestrians in the evening everywhere, but naturally some areas are more residential than others as in every city. I don't think we expect Gloucester Street to be teaming with pedestrians at midnight. On the other hand, we shouldn't be able to shoot a canon down Sparks Street knowing it is totally deserted.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

This is not even remotely the case on Sparks, where patio activity has dropped off quite noticeably in the past four or five years.

I work on Sparks, and I would disagree with this statement. In the past 4-5 years, a number of newer, bigger establishments like 3 Brasseurs and the Beer Market have opened, and they have been a much bigger draw in the evenings than was the case previously. The Confed line being under Queen should only help this trend.