Calgary Area Regional Transit

[frinkprof]

On the topic of LRT to CIM though. I'm actually not opposed to it so long as CIM/County of Rockyview pay for it. Of course the NELRT has a couple more phases' worth of extensions before that is an option.

[para transit fellow]

looks like Airdrie has applied for an operating authority for their commuter connection between Airdrie and Calgary:
http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/665.htm

[Riise]

More news on the Airdrie to Calgary commuter bus service.

Airdrie To Launch Transit Service To Calgary In Fall

March 29, 2010
Calgary Herald
Jason Mrkusoff

CALGARY - Chronic delays in the province's regional transit funding haven't stopped Airdrie, which will start its first public bus service with Calgary this fall.

The community of 38,000 will use the Intercity Express, with three $700,000 long buses Airdrie council has purchased.

The Stelmach government's 2008 pledge of $2 billion toward regional buses or trains had Calgary and its neighbours plot a long-term transit system featuring express buses and eventually commuter trains.

The deficit-plagued Tories haven't rolled out the "green trip" dollars yet, but Airdrie had held off on its long-standing transit expansion plans long enough and decided to go it alone.

"We just really couldn't wait any longer -- we had to meet the needs of our communities," Mayor Linda Bruce said.

Complete Article

[Calgarian]

About time some of the outlying regions start shouldering some of the load.

[freeweed]

Sprawlarific!

I wonder how long it will be until Calgary annexes Airdrie. By the time we hit 2 million?

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Sprawlarific!

I wonder how long it will be until Calgary annexes Airdrie. By the time we hit 2 million?

I doubt we will ever annex Airdrie, we might just have a permanent boundary.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

About time some of the outlying regions start shouldering some of the load.

The thing is though that the Airdrie Transit bus will drop them off in north Calgary, where they will take a Calgary Transit bus to wherever their final destination is. This will put a strain on the service that Calgarians pay for.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

The thing is though that the Airdrie Transit bus will drop them off in north Calgary, where they will take a Calgary Transit bus to wherever their final destination is. This will put a strain on the service that Calgarians pay for.

Yeah, I realize that, but if it drops them off at the c-train, that might save the roads a little. Airdrie needs to have direct shuttle service downtown, that people in Airdrie pay for.

Commuter trains would be the best, but that's probably 20 years off.

[mersar]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Yeah, I realize that, but if it drops them off at the c-train, that might save the roads a little. Airdrie needs to have direct shuttle service downtown, that people in Airdrie pay for.

Commuter trains would be the best, but that's probably 20 years off.

The drop-off point is the Northpointe Terminal behind the theatres on Harvest Hills Blvd @ Country Hills Blvd meaning most will transfer onto the #301

[Wooster]

The Calgary region as a whole should be a singular transit system, run by one operator - Calgary Transit. Each municipality would have to pay their fair share into the the system. People move across a region without regard to municipal boundaries, a transit system should not be inhibited by these boundaries.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Yeah, I realize that, but if it drops them off at the c-train, that might save the roads a little. Airdrie needs to have direct shuttle service downtown, that people in Airdrie pay for.

Commuter trains would be the best, but that's probably 20 years off.

Well, in essence they already do, except it is run by private coach companies. Similar services exist in Cochrane, Okotoks, Chestermere (although I think one of the coach companies folded recently?), etc. There's even a coach company (I think it is Cardinal) that does one weekday back/forth run out of Crossfield.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Sprawlarific!

While it will certainly help the current development patterns continue for longer than they would otherwise, at the end of the day weak sustainability is better than no sustainability.

Originally Posted by Calgarian

I doubt we will ever annex Airdrie, we might just have a permanent boundary.

Since we are a Unicity, don't we by law have to annex them?

Originally Posted by frinkprof

This will put a strain on the service that Calgarians pay for.

However, they will be paying customers but wouldn't be responsible for the shortfall that the revenue from fares cannot make up. Nonetheless, the fuller the busses the smaller the shortfall.

[Calgarian]

I'm not aware of any laws that will force Calgary to annex Airdrie, but I'm not really familiar with the regulations around that anyway.

I would prefer to see Calgary have finite boundaries, that way we can stop expanding ever outward and start working on densifying the city.

Wooster, I agree, all municipalities should just pay into Calgary transit, that would be ideal.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Riise

While it will certainly help the current development patterns continue for longer than they would otherwise, at the end of the day weak sustainability is better than no sustainability.

Sure, but when the LRT is coming under attack for encouraging sprawl, I'd say a bus service running a further 10km outside the city is much, much worse.

I'll take sprawl at the edge of the city over sprawl to bedroom communities any day, personally. I still can't believe the province is seriously looking at commuter rail to all these far-flung towns while half of Calgary itself doesn't yet have it.

I'm also still waiting to see if we're going to have public transit out to Cross Iron Mills.

[SubwayRev]

Originally Posted by Riise

Since we are a Unicity, don't we by law have to annex them?

I don't think it's a law...it's just always been what the Province has decided to do. However, I believe all the previous annexations by Calgary were of very small communities. No more than 1 or 2,000 people. Airdrie has enough people, who most likely wouldn't want to be part of Calgary, that it would be too unpopular politically for the Province to annex it into Calgary.

I don't really have any facts on this, that's just what I seem to remember from some Poli Sci classes 15 years ago!

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Since Calgary's communities seem to work much better together than for example Edmonton's I could see except for green field that instead of annexing that a regional council will eventually augment the existing communities, sort of like 'Metro Toronto' for the long period before it was unified. But yeah, unicity is only convention, not law I believe.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

I'm not aware of any laws that will force Calgary to annex Airdrie, but I'm not really familiar with the regulations around that anyway.

I would prefer to see Calgary have finite boundaries, that way we can stop expanding ever outward and start working on densifying the city.

Wooster, I agree, all municipalities should just pay into Calgary transit, that would be ideal.

Department of Municipal Affairs is the body that regulates this. They can force amalgamation (and annexation, dissolution etc) onto municipalities etc. I think municipal affairs policy towards Calgary has been to force amalgamation and annexation to maintain a unicity of sorts (Bowness, Forest Lawn, Ogden, Midnapore and recently Shepard were all separate entities before being annexed IIRC).

The issue of finite boundaries is a complex one, but not impossible. The city can basically refuse to redesignate any land from agriculture to residential, but this would require a lot of cooperation from Rockyview county and MD of Foothills. Again, it is a pretty complex political issue. Development and related issues is pretty much the biggest issue that municipal governments deal with, and it can be quite contentious.

[Riise]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

I'm not aware of any laws that will force Calgary to annex Airdrie, but I'm not really familiar with the regulations around that anyway.

No worries, as the other responses have shown I'm not 100% sure of the actual legislation either.

Originally Posted by freeweed

Sure, but when the LRT is coming under attack for encouraging sprawl, I'd say a bus service running a further 10km outside the city is much, much worse.

Although I think you wording is a little strong, I agree with your general point. However, the difference in this situation is that this growth is going to happen anyway as it is outside of the City's control and it is not using funds that could be put towards other transit initiatives in the City.

Originally Posted by fusili

The issue of finite boundaries is a complex one, but not impossible.

Green Belts and other forms of Growth Boundaries are indeed very tricky. My dissertation will try to determine if the method through which Greater London is implementing the national Green Belt policy sustainable and best able to meet the region's economic, environmental, and social goals.

[Calgarian]

Yeah, I really doubt Airdrie will want to be part of Calgary, same with other bigger, nearby cities. Commuter rail is a great idea and I would definitely support it as it is far more efficient than driving.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Yeah, I really doubt Airdrie will want to be part of Calgary, same with other bigger, nearby cities. Commuter rail is a great idea and I would definitely support it as it is far more efficient than driving.

It wouldn't be their choice. The department of municipal affairs would dictate amalgamation if they saw fit. However, it is government, so it is political and if Airdrie was really resistant, they would probably be able to influence the decision. But often, it is Calgary that doesn't want to amalgamate, as many of the cities it absorbed (such as Bowness) were seriously lacking in infrastructure, and Calgary didn't want to pay for the upgrades.