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Originally Posted by HousesForMontreal
Although I applaud the builder's ambition to turn REM into subways for all the sprawling suburban areas outside of the Montreal island, they do need to realize that outside of Montreal island, the REM IS going to be still another commuter rail albeit a faster, cleaner and a more frequent one but NOT a subway. You are going to need to build huge parking spaces to entice people from the suburbs to use the REM. Buses are not going to cut it. And there is a reason for that. This is NOT Europe; this is North America; this is Canada, the 2nd largest country in the world. You don't have everything all clustered together like in European cities; everything here is sprawling out. So the public transit that you build needs to be sensitive to that unique land space characteristics. Outside of the central Montreal island even including Ile des Soeurs, the housing density is lower and houses are bigger and buildings are further apart with less people living in each of them and thus roads are longer with intersections further apart. That's just the reality of how suburbs are. With longer streets and intersections further apart, there is only so far and so much that human feet can travel especially when you have small children who tend to live more in the suburbs because they would have more space to play.
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The size of the country is irrelevant since we're only talking about transportation within metropolitan areas, and there are many cities in Europe whose suburbs are not particularly high density with Germany and Scandinavia being good examples. Obviously all public transit that is built should recognize its context, but that isn't an excuse to have it cater to and promote automobile usage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HousesForMontreal
And at the same time since you have more private homes, you are going to have less accessibility to the buses which is usually is the shuttle between the subway stations and people's individual homes in the city. You simply cannot have ten thousand buses going every 6 minutes pass people's bedrooms through their backyard 24 hours a day in the suburbs. It just doesn't work that way. So that leaves only ONE transportation choice: cars. That's the only means people will use to get to the REM and from REM IF they are conscious about the environment and really see a benefit in their commuting.
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Saying "It just doesn't work that way" isn't an actual argument. It doesn't offer any reason why buses can't run frequently enough to provide decent service in a suburban setting just because there are "individual homes" there. Why can there be frequent bus service in an urban setting when this requires buses to pass residential areas (which obviously includes thousands of homes with bedrooms) but it isn't possible in suburban areas? That doesn't even make sense. Besides, before the REM service began construction the same could be said about suburban rail service. "There's no way suburban rail can run frequently in a suburban setting. It just doesn't work that way!" And for many years that was true in Montreal, but soon it won't be. Things not being a particular way isn't a valid argument against why things can't or shouldn't change. Not to mention that the REM system is similar to the very successful Vancouver Skytrain which extends deep into the suburbs including Surrey, Richmond, Burnaby, and Coquitlam and that system does not include huge amounts of parking at the suburban stations. It has a grand total of 4 park and ride facilities with combined capacity for about 4500 cars in a system with an average of about 526k riders per weekday. The idea that people won't use a frequent, convenient suburban service just because it lacks park'n'rides is a baseless claim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HousesForMontreal
Even with adequate amount of park & ride space at REM, you would be lucky if you can get people to at least be willing to ditch their cars in the parking lot letting them freeze in the winter and boil under the sun in the summer all day while they are packed like sardines in the REM to get to work and still have to transfer onto the subway and/or walk afterwards to their workplace once they get to the city when they are so used to just sitting in the comfort of their car albeit in a road rage but all the way to their workplace. The amount of parking space in the suburbs for REM and the zero parking space for Ile des Soeurs right now is way too inadequate. For Ile des Soeurs, in the summer, people might be more enticed to bike or walk or take the bus to the REM station. Once winter hits and that's for 8 months out of a year, that REM station at Ile des Soeurs will sit empty. For the rest of the suburb areas with just several hundred parking space planned at each of the REM station planned, forget it. They will just all sit empty, way under-capacity. All the investment that has gone into the construction of REM will not get recuperated, not until more parking space is built.
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The problem with surrounding rapid transit stations with parking (beyond the fact that it invites and encourages people to use cars by presenting this as the preferred option) is that it penalizes everyone else who would prefer to be actual transit uses rather than just a train commuter. The feeder buses that connect to the rail system work best if they also connect the surrounding neighbourhoods to other things such as businesses or community amenities that are located around the station so that the same bus routes can serve both purposes. Also, it can be convenient for people to live near the stations allowing them to access the service by walking (called TODs or transit oriented developments). This is something that is very common in Vancouver and Toronto for example. However, if the station is just surrounded by huge amounts of parking, the only bus routes that are feasible are limited (mostly rush hour) service for the few downtown commuters who rely on buses.
And yes, even in the suburbs there are many people in that situation since they either can't drive (too young/old, physical/mental disability, affordability, etc). Yet they're prevented from getting good service because the transit system is designed to cater to motorists. Plus, the people who would like to walk or bike have to get past all the parking and deal with all the congestion it creates so the parking actually discourages riders arriving from other modes. In other words, designing a system to cater to motorists doesn't just help motorists, it harms non-motorist transit users. Meanwhile, it's next to impossible to provide enough parking to feed a high capacity rapid transit service.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HousesForMontreal
And I do not know why they are so reluctant to construct these parking space which is so vital to the success to REM in the suburbs. You are not going to turn the REM into subway just because you think you can make people take the REM without using cars. People who live in different areas of the city have different needs. If people see that it's not convenient for them to take a certain public transit venue, they just won't take it. And besides, building those parking space is not that difficult. Just build multi-level parking garages, either above the ground and/or underground. That's it. The cars would be shielded from the elements of the weather and people would be more willing to park and ride and everybody wins! The sooner those builders realize this, the better we can all benefit.
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When a rapid transit station is built the land around it tends to sky rocket in value, yet you're suggesting that this valuable land be wasted on car storage when the whole purpose of transit is to provide a transportation alternate to cars? Parking lots are expensive (like, $3k each), and parking garages are even more expensive even without considering the price of land and without considering better ways that land could be used. So transit agencies are obviously reluctant to waste money on something that would likely actually reduce ridership and make the project
less successful. I agree that it is better to drive to a transit station and take transit into a city than to drive the entire way, but encouraging transit usage for the entire trip is far better still.
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Wishful thinking ....
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