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  #81  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2008, 7:38 PM
Cambridgite
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Now I'm going to look at reverse commuting. In other words, how many people from Toronto, Mississauga, and Milton are commuting to Waterloo, Kitchener, and Cambridge.

Waterloo

http://www12.statcan.ca/english/cens...35&GID=3530016

Toronto

2001: 495

2006: 715

+44%

Mississauga

2001: 220

2006: 390

+77%

Milton

2001: 75

2006: 125

+67%

Kitchener

Toronto

2001: 160

2006: 345

+215%

Mississauga

2001: 200

2006: 215

+7.5%

Milton

2001: 70

2006: 110

+57%

Cambridge

Toronto

2001: 155

2006: 285

+84%

Mississauga

2001: 245

2006: 395

+61%

Milton

2001: 105

2006: 160

+52%

In all cases, there was growth in reverse commuting from the GTA to Waterloo Region. Sometimes only a bit, but sometimes very large growth.
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  #82  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2008, 7:45 PM
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for Ontario as a whole about 81% of the population is 15 and older and 67% of those people are in the labour force (with 63% of people over 15 employed)

.81*.63 = 0.51
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  #83  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2008, 8:24 PM
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ok, so 50% of a permanent population in ON is about the standard.
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  #84  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2008, 8:27 PM
BusyBerliner BusyBerliner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onishenko View Post
I'm curious about those numbers... It has a total of about 40,000 people who live in Waterloo working... Is this accurate? I mean, 110,000 residents... minus ~30k students... means 1/2 people are working? Is this normal percentages based on stay-at-home parents and children?
I don't believe census data includes most students. Everyone is only counted once, so out-of-town students would only be included in their home census tract (in the GTA usually). The census data for for Waterloo doesn't really capture what really goes on here in terms of student population.
The real population of Waterloo is probably more like 120,000, whereas the 2006 census only counted 97,500.
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  #85  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2008, 1:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambridgite View Post
The 2006 commuting stats came out on Statscan the other day.

I will look at the cities of Waterloo, Kitchener, and Cambridge and see how much commuting has increased/decreased to the cities of Toronto, Mississauga, and Milton from 2001-2006. This should give us an idea of how urgent the need for better connections to the GTA is.

Waterloo

http://www12.statcan.ca/english/cens...35&GID=3530016

Toronto

2001: 505

2006: 520

+3%

Mississauga

2001: 375

2006: 360

-4%

Milton

2001: 45

2006: 60

+33%

Kitchener

Toronto

2001: 1050

2006: 960

-9.4%

Mississauga

2001: 1130

2006: 1030

-9.7%

Milton

2001: 255

2006: 330

+29%

Cambridge

Toronto

2001: 1260

2006: 1230

-2.4%

Mississauga

2001: 1900

2006: 1930

+1.6%

Milton

2001: 590

2006: 780

+39%

With the exception of the large commuting increases to Milton, it appears that commuting from Waterloo Region to the other major destinations in the GTA has flatlined or even declined in some cases. And thus, LRT is a bigger priority than GO transit. Of course, I still wouldn't want it to "derail" the idea of a GO-train, so to speak .
I'm pretty sure the reason why Milton has become the commuting destination is because everyone is parking their cars at the GO station, instead of driving into the city.
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  #86  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2008, 1:44 AM
mark76 mark76 is offline
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last thursday i had to attend conference meeting in Mississauga.
drive on 401 was ok but after old hwy 6 just became nightmare.milton area is pretty bad ,just clogged.

statistics is one thing ,real life totally different story.

from kitchener to living arts centre in mississauga took me over an hour.

when i was going back to kitchener,(around 4 pm) some car stalled in fast lane ,took me almost 2 hours!!

no way i would commute to t.o. everday on 401.

GO transit for sure ,but how long we have to wait?
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  #87  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2008, 1:55 AM
DHLawrence DHLawrence is offline
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My father used to commute to Humber College near Woodbine when he was a professor there. I don't know how he did it; once a week to my home away from home in Port Credit for Humber in Mimico is more than enough for me. Going into Toronto for fun is a nightmare until you get on the subway at Kipling or Yorkdale; I'd pick the GO train any day if the drive to Aldershot didn't add an extra hour to my trip.
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  #88  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2008, 3:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitchener-lrt View Post
I'm pretty sure the reason why Milton has become the commuting destination is because everyone is parking their cars at the GO station, instead of driving into the city.
No. If that were the case, Toronto would grow as a destination. They list it as origin/destination, meaning that the destination is the municipality that people work in. I suspect the reason Milton has grown so much as a destination is because they've had tremendous growth from 2001-2006. That's not just residential, but Milton has gained a lot of industry north of the 401 as well. And in the big scheme of things, Milton is by far the closest part of the GTA to Waterloo Region, being only 25 minutes from Cambridge.
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  #89  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 12:03 PM
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Now this is some great news...great way to start off my day


[quote]
GO wants trains to Kitchener by 2011

September 25, 2008
Kevin Swayze
RECORD STAFF

WATERLOO REGION

GO Transit wants to bring four passenger trains a day to Kitchener by 2011.

GO officials expect a study now underway will bolster the case for the commuter-rail link with Toronto. The recommendations should be ready by March, Bruce Sevier, GO's senior projects officer, said yesterday.

Design of a preferred route could start later in 2009 and, if financing comes through, construction of stations would start in 2010, he said. Trains could be running the next year.

It depends on money, however. Sevier estimated the expansion would cost $40 million to $50 million, since GO would have to upgrade tracks and buy trains.

"We don't know where the pot of gold might come from," he said in an interview, adding that this question hasn't been asked yet. But when GO extended rail service to Barrie last year, the capital cost was evenly shared by Queen's Park, the federal government and the City of Barrie. This could be the way financing is arranged for the Kitchener expansion, he said.

An environmental assessment now underway is looking at a route west from Georgetown along the former Canadian National tracks.

The GO train proposal for Kitchener is up for public comment tonight during an information session at St. Andrew's Presbyterian Church, 54 Queen St. N. Doors will be open from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m.

Ken Seiling, the Waterloo Region chair, cautioned yesterday that local residents shouldn't get excited about boarding GO trains anytime soon.

"It's not a given that it's going to happen," said Seiling, who has been lukewarm to the idea of expansion. "What GO is saying is they would like it to happen. It's in the very early stages."

In the past, Seiling has expressed concerns that GO train service would turn Waterloo Region into a bedroom community of the Toronto area.

The 2006 census found 10,665 people commute daily between Waterloo Region and the Toronto area. Another 12,480 region residents head to Wellington County to work, and 9,465 Wellington County residents head to the region to work daily.

Go officials are talking about adding bus service to Waterloo Region as early as next year.

The area under study for GO trains follows the Goderich and Exeter railway -- formerly Canadian National -- as far west as Baden. There is no suggestion passengers could board trains in Baden, however. Downtown Kitchener would be the station farthest west. The tracks to the west of the city are included because they might be needed for parking trains overnight, Sevier said.

GO service to downtown Kitchener would also link to the rapid transit system proposed for Waterloo Region. The Kitchener station is one of the likely stops on the rapid transit route, Sevier said.

Today, Via Rail offers the only passenger train service to the region -- three trains a day into Kitchener. Via is studying upgrading the tracks it uses between Kitchener and Georgetown, along with modernizing the "archaic" signal system, Sevier said. It is also looking at boosting the number of trains it runs through Kitchener, he said.

GO is talking to Via about the upgrades, which would allow more trains to travel faster, he said. Some stretches of track have speed limits of 16 kilometres an hour. By comparison, trains using GO's Lakeshore and Barrie tracks top 100 km/h.

While Kitchener's GO train expansion appears on the fast track, a long-proposed westward extension from Milton to Cambridge is less certain, Seiling said. Regional council has approved a business case study of using the Canadian Pacific Railway tracks to run passenger trains into south Cambridge. The cost and ridership study is expected to be done next year.

Today, there's a bottleneck to expanding GO service west from Milton, Seiling said. The tracks between Milton and Toronto need to be upgraded to deal with today's demands. GO says Milton trains are running at 140 per cent capacity now; there's no way to handle more passengers without a huge capital investment.

The region's Cambridge-Milton study would lay the groundwork for such an expansion whenever the Milton crunch is resolved, Seiling said.

kswayze@therecord.com

{/quote]

Im not entirely sure why Ken Seiling thinks this is going to be a bad idea. It will without a doubt take cars off the road, combine that with LRT, there are great possibilities!
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  #90  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 1:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcollins View Post
Design of a preferred route could start later in 2009 and, if financing comes through, construction of stations would start in 2010, he said. Trains could be running the next year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcollins View Post
An environmental assessment now underway is looking at a route west from Georgetown along the former Canadian National tracks.
Wait...hasn't this environmental assessment been going on for years now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcollins View Post
In the past, Seiling has expressed concerns that GO train service would turn Waterloo Region into a bedroom community of the Toronto area.
I wonder if they said this back when they built the 401...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcollins View Post
The 2006 census found 10,665 people commute daily between Waterloo Region and the Toronto area. Another 12,480 region residents head to Wellington County to work, and 9,465 Wellington County residents head to the region to work daily.
There you go. And as we know, commuting to the GTA has flatlined since 2001! I wouldn't worry too much about us becoming a bedroom community. Yet the assumptions and rhetoric about our growth never seem to stop!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcollins View Post
Go officials are talking about adding bus service to Waterloo Region as early as next year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jcollins View Post
GO service to downtown Kitchener would also link to the rapid transit system proposed for Waterloo Region. The Kitchener station is one of the likely stops on the rapid transit route, Sevier said.
My god, I would hope so!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcollins View Post
Im not entirely sure why Ken Seiling thinks this is going to be a bad idea. It will without a doubt take cars off the road, combine that with LRT, there are great possibilities!
It's all ideology. It doesn't make sense. If he wanted to stop us from becoming a bedroom community so badly, he'd have to destroy a section of the 401 east of Townline!
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  #91  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2008, 6:19 PM
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Just the number of students who commute to and from the GTA on weekends would make this service make a heck of a lot of sense. Also, if VIA could work in with GO so VIA trains could skip smaller stations, that would be wonderful and would help those who need to get to Brampton, Pearson, or Union Station.
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  #92  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2008, 1:07 AM
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waterloowarrior waterloowarrior is offline
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from gokw.org
Good evening, here is my brief report from the Guelph PIC:
  • Reported 75 people attended, including many Guelph city councillors
  • This is the first fast tracked EA under province’s new guidelines
  • Service start date is expected to be 2011
  • All of what has been proposed is just that — subject to change

Some details
  • One of the major bottlenecks, the Credit River Bridge on CN, is going to be double tracked starting next year, in advance of Kitchener/Guelph expansion
  • Baden was not listed as a layover location at the PIC, Petersburg, “IRA Needles” (between Petersburg and Kitchener) and Breslau were proposed alternatively
  • Three kitchener stations were proposed (IRA Needles, Downtown (by VIA station) and Breslau)
  • Three Guelph station locations were proposed (Lafarge, Downtown, Watson Road (Guelph East)
  • Acton is on the map, with two proposed stations (west, and east (hide house))

I’ll post more, and edit this once I recieve electronic copies of the report.

Thanks to the fine folks at GO Transit and RJ Burnside for hosting this, a job well done.

also
cdlu's blog has a detailed post about Guelph
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  #93  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2008, 2:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterlooInvestor View Post
I plan to show up at tonight's meeting, although just until 7:30 since I'm going to the Princess at 9.
I take it you went to the Bottle Shock premiere and wine tasting? (I wanted to go, but had class until 9/30)

EDIT: Never mind... I see that was actually at 7/45, not 9.
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Last edited by rapid_business; Sep 26, 2008 at 2:30 AM.
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  #94  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2008, 4:34 AM
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  #95  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2008, 1:16 PM
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GO expansion would put 3 stations in the region

September 26, 2008
Greg Mercer
RECORD STAFF

WATERLOO REGION

GO Transit would build three train stations in the region -- at Breslau, downtown Kitchener, and the city's western edge -- under a proposed model revealed to the public last night.

It's part of an expansion plan that would eventually include commuter trains running from the region to Toronto seven days a week -- leaving every 20 minutes at peak times and hourly during slow periods.

The proposed plans would also make Petersburg GO's most westerly point, although it would be a maintenance and refuelling terminal not intended for passenger use.

GO Transit, which could be running trains here as early as 2011, has already mapped out prospective station properties it would want to buy if the western expansion goes ahead.

That includes a strip of land near Highway 7 in Breslau, which would become a park-and-ride station. The property, between Fountain Street and East Woolwich Road, is the site of the former Breslau Hotel.

The commuter line also proposes a downtown station running parallel to Victoria Street for about three city blocks, near the Via Rail station. This would be an urban station, with little parking space and intended for cyclists, pedestrians and people connecting from other public transit.

The downtown station plans could be changed, GO officials said, to create an all-in-one terminal linking up with the region's proposed rapid transit line connecting Cambridge, Kitchener and Waterloo. "That's definitely part of the plan," said Greg Ashbee, GO's manager of environmental assessment and planning infrastructure. "You don't want people walking for blocks to get from one to the other."

Under the GO proposal, the most western commuter station would be north of the existing tracks near Ira Needles Boulevard, along Glasgow Street. This would also be a car-friendly park-and-ride station like the one in Breslau.

Regional Chair Ken Seiling said council is fully behind the GO plans. An efficient intercity commuter service could be a boost for the local economy, he said.

Some local employers, particularly in the hi-tech sector, are struggling to find staff because there's no easy commute into the region.

"An improved rail service really helps employment opportunities within the region," Seiling said.

And the region's economy has grown enough that there are nearly as many people commuting into the region for work as those heading out, he said.

"We don't think we're as much at risk of being a bedroom community as we were 10 years ago."

GO's own passenger projections seem to support this. Based on population levels and job-related commuting statistics, the projections suggest that in 2011 there could be as many as 2,450 riders coming into the region on GO trains every day and about 2,600 going out.

By 2031 there could as many as 7,800 commuters taking GO into Waterloo Region and about 7,900 riders taking the trains east, according to projections.

The proposed expansion plans were welcomed by a mostly enthusiastic crowd at a downtown church hall in Kitchener last night.

"I think it just makes sense," said Kitchener's Scott Ritchie. "We're not a small city anymore. We need this."

GO plans to have a preferred design for the Kitchener expansion sorted out by the end of January.

By April, it wants to have an environmental assessment report submitted to the government, and start a 45-day period for public input.

gmercer@therecord.com

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  #96  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2008, 2:26 PM
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Anybody around here live in Petersburg? Would love to hear someones opinion on this from there.
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  #97  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2008, 5:11 PM
jcollins jcollins is offline
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Did Ken Seiling change his mind overnight?

The one thing Im not clear on is the station that would span 3 city blocks. Does this seem large to anyone else? Maybe Im just not thinking of it in the right way, so if anyone could help me to understand that, that'd be great.

Or if anyone that was there last night could interpret at all...


I do however love the idea of joining it all into one transit station (GO, LRT, bus) sort of like a mini-penn station as I think WaterlooInvestor put it.
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  #98  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2008, 5:23 PM
BusyBerliner BusyBerliner is offline
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the 3 blocks is just the general area that they're looking at. they still need to narrow it down to a specific site, but i doubt they'll settle on anything until the king/victoria lrt station location is determined. ideally we'll have a combined station which would certainly be more rider-friendly and could also save some money and land.
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  #99  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2008, 5:30 PM
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I'm thinking the Collins & Aikman (sp?) site. It's been discussed here so many times, it seems like a no brainer. I think expressions of interest (purchase) for the site are due around now or early October.
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  #100  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2008, 8:39 PM
BusyBerliner BusyBerliner is offline
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That is a good location, but I was thinking that the other side of the tracks could be ideal (the block with the beer store, the Korean shop and the Rent-a-Tire)

It's an awkwardly shaped site that might be difficult to redevlop otherwise. Its also right on the corner of King and Victoria, a touch closer to downtown. I'm not sure though if eastbound trains would block King St when stoped (trains may be too long with 12 passanger cars). Perhaps Waterloo St could be closed and included.
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