California High Speed Rail Thread

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by hughfb3

No construction on anything south of Bakersfield. Final EIR will be complete by next year for Southern California segment as the Palmdale to Burbank section will require brand new tunnels through the mountains, then will share track with Metrolink from Burbank to Anaheim. Metrolink from Union Station to Anaheim could have been electrified by now partially using CAHSR funds just like Caltrain, but they have been “dragging their feet” and toying with Hydrogen trains. They don’t want to spend money on overhead electrical systems.

It does look like Burbank to Union Station will at least be utilizing the existing Metrolink ROW, so that portion will have to be electrified at some point, hopefully sooner rather than later. I wonder how much grade separation they'll try to achieve there as well. That's low hanging fruit at least that could be completed relatively quickly and easily, since it looks like Palmdale to Burbank and Bako to Palmdale will require extensive tunneling.

[TWAK]

Originally Posted by homebucket

It does look like Burbank to Union Station will at least be utilizing the existing Metrolink ROW, so that portion will have to be electrified at some point, hopefully sooner rather than later. I wonder how much grade separation they'll try to achieve there as well. That's low hanging fruit at least that could be completed relatively quickly and easily, since it looks like Palmdale to Burbank and Bako to Palmdale will require extensive tunneling.

Probably anywhere that's blended should get the Caltrain treatment, just to give the project more visibility. They can run local trains before HSR service starts as well on those lines, to get use out of the upgrades earlier and I hope this could even be applied to the phase two cities before phase two starts. I'm pretty sure the major urban areas/cities have to use some form of blended...

[FromSD]

Originally Posted by hughfb3

The peninsula corridor is shared with Caltrain, that was the compromise the authority made with the Peninsula cities as the cities didn’t want complete grade separation or a completely new set of tracks exclusive to HSR.

One of the main critiques that detractors like to say about CAHSR is that California has spent X years and X dollars and “not a single track has been laid.” The idea of Opening the Peninsula corridor CAHSR with full livery the same day or earlier than the IOS; operating roughly the same service pattern as envisioned, will go along way to demonstrate that this project is more than just laying new track, its upgrading Caltrain’s entire rail infrastructure and portions of Metrolink’s

I think I read somewhere that the HSR trains would be limited to 110 miles on the Peninsula corridor. The question I had: won't that corridor between San Jose and SF get really congested once the HSR trains are added to the Caltrain trains? Caltrain runs a lot of trains. Caltrain's non-express trains stop at stations that are spaced fairly close together and so are going much slower. In many places there are only two tracks. What happens when HSR throws all its trains into the mix? Are there plans to add more tracks, especially tracks to allow HSR trains to bypass all the intermediate stations between San Jose and SF?

[hughfb3]

Originally Posted by FromSD

I think I read somewhere that the HSR trains would be limited to 110 miles on the Peninsula corridor. The question I had: won't that corridor between San Jose and SF get really congested once the HSR trains are added to the Caltrain trains? Caltrain runs a lot of trains. Caltrain's non-express trains stop at stations that are spaced fairly close together and so are going much slower. In many places there are only two tracks. What happens when HSR throws all its trains into the mix? Are there plans to add more tracks, especially tracks to allow HSR trains to bypass all the intermediate stations between San Jose and SF?

That is correct, trains will be limited in their speed while in the blended corridor, but Caltrain's new Stadler KISS electric trains can go 110. Even with limited speeds, it is still just shy of the Brightline's maximum speed of 125 mph. There are quadruple tracks for passing in Redwood City and Sunnyvale, triple tracks at SFO and Tamien, then everything south of San Jose (Coyote) is single tracked and will be upgraded once full HSR comes through. It should be enough with coordinated schedules where Caltrain makes stops that HSR does not and could allow it to pass.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by FromSD

I think I read somewhere that the HSR trains would be limited to 110 miles on the Peninsula corridor. The question I had: won't that corridor between San Jose and SF get really congested once the HSR trains are added to the Caltrain trains? Caltrain runs a lot of trains. Caltrain's non-express trains stop at stations that are spaced fairly close together and so are going much slower. In many places there are only two tracks. What happens when HSR throws all its trains into the mix? Are there plans to add more tracks, especially tracks to allow HSR trains to bypass all the intermediate stations between San Jose and SF?

The capacity of the blended corridor is limited by the Transbay Terminal's six platforms. There will be a maximum of four HSR trains per hour arriving and departing DTSF, or one roughly every 15 minutes.

If a second Transbay Tube can be built, the Terminal can be turned into a through-running station, and it will instantly be able to serve many more trains.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by hughfb3

There are quadruple tracks for passing in Redwood City and Sunnyvale, triple tracks at SFO and Tamien,

Also, the planned approach tunnel to Transbay Terminal will be three tracks.

[Busy Bee]

I'm not sure I was aware the test speed was set at 242mph...

People are going to wet their pants when they see that streaking across the Central Valley. Naysayers will be converted. Indifferent, ignorant and oblivious will be amazed. Pols will react and state government will start to get serious about expediting Phase 1. My prediction.



California high speed train request for proposals approved

By Railway Gazette International
12 April 2024




USA: The California High-Speed Rail Authority board has approved the release of a request for proposals for the supply and maintenance of high speed trainsets.

Alstom Transportation and Siemens Mobility have prequalified for the process. Their proposals are to be submitted this autumn, with the authority aiming to award a contract by the end of the year.

The contract is to cover two prototype trainsets to be delivered for testing and trial running within four years of the noticed to proceed, and four production trainsets for passenger services on the initial 275 km Merced to Bakersfield early operating segment of the planned high speed line from 2030-33. The trainsets must be capable of operating at 355 km/h (220 miles/h) and tested up to 390 km/h (242 miles/h).

The contract would include a driving simulator, spare parts and 30 years of maintenance, including a mid-life overhaul.

The federal funding contribution requires compliance with Buy America rules, although waivers may be sought for components which cannot be sourced domestically.

Rest

[badrunner]

Wish we were getting those for Brightline West. LA to Vegas in one hour.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by badrunner

Wish we were getting those for Brightline West. LA to Vegas in one hour.

Brightline (both in Florida and in Southern California/Las Vegas) is going to be significantly inferior to CAHSR.

[MAC123]

Originally Posted by badrunner

Wish we were getting those for Brightline West. LA to Vegas in one hour.

The trainsets for BW and CAHSR will be almost the same. The reason they won't go as fast is not the trains, it's the tracks. Like the poster above said, BW is a vastly inferior system

[badrunner]

I don't know the specifics about the trainset for Brightline West but it's reported to go up to 186mph (through flat desert), and the journey from Rancho Cucomonga to Las Vegas is expected to take about two hours. You're right though, it might not be the train. The track itself could still impose a speed limit.

There should be a separate thread for Brightline West on here once contruction starts and we start getting regular updates.

[Busy Bee]

Curve radii inside the median that follows the highway automobile design speed mixed with >5% grades will keep the average speed significantly lower than the CHSR design speed.

[hughfb3]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Curve radii inside the median that follows the highway automobile design speed mixed with >5% grades will keep the average speed significantly lower than the CHSR design speed.

This is a fundamental distinction. CAHSR is designing a fully double tracked high speed rail line for 200+mph trains. BW is laying a track in the median of an existing interstate designed for the automobile with max speeds of 80mph. Things like curve radius for train speeds of 200+mph the interstate was not designed for. And I have gratitude for both systems and their place.

[badrunner]

There are reports that Brightline has already selected the Siemens trainset, but the linked press release is no longer live. The Brightline West home page still shows a slower TGV style train in what looks like an old rendering, and recently published articles also quote a top speed of 186mph.

Maybe they are waiting on CAHSR to make their choice first, since there are plans for a connection and interoperability.

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by hughfb3

This is a fundamental distinction. CAHSR is designing a fully double tracked high speed rail line for 200+mph trains. BW is laying a track in the median of an existing interstate designed for the automobile with max speeds of 80mph. Things like curve radius for train speeds of 200+mph the interstate was not designed for. And I have gratitude for both systems and their place.

Yeah CAHSR should blow away Brightline West in average speed. I wish we got the same track/train setup for Brightline, but leveraging existing infrastructure has its advantages too (can it actually open on schedule?). And I'm still holding out hope we'll be seeing 200+ mph on these desert straightaways.

[Busy Bee]

The engineering of the original DesertXpress proposal was superior in nearly every way. It's r.o.w. was shifted to one side of I-15 allowing geometry for higher speeds as well as several short tunnels lowering peak grade percentages. Every decision Brightline has made has been made to make the project cheaper to build at the expense of performance. That said, it is a fair question whether the current approved plans will be sufficient for what the purpose here is. Obviously, we all want to see this thing get built and the money behind it felt making some sacrifices was worth it to do so and don't feel the negatives outweigh the positives.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

The engineering of the original DesertXpress proposal was superior in nearly every way. It's r.o.w. was shifted to one side of I-15 allowing geometry for higher speeds as well as several short tunnels lowering peak grade percentages. Every decision Brightline has made has been made to make the project cheaper to build at the expense of performance. That said, it is a fair question whether the current approved plans will be sufficient for what the purpose here is. Obviously, we all want to see this thing get built and the money behind it felt making some sacrifices was worth it to do so and don't feel the negatives outweigh the positives.

The $1 billion question (actually probably much, much more than that) is how much the public is willing to pay to enjoy a higher ride quality plus a 10, 20, 30-minute faster ride.

"HSR", thanks to Brightline, is turning into "BRT". The term is going to end up meaning nothing specific.

[Gantz]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Brightline (both in Florida and in Southern California/Las Vegas) is going to be significantly inferior to CAHSR.

That would depend on the ticket price.

[TowerDude]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

The engineering of the original DesertXpress proposal was superior in nearly every way. It's r.o.w. was shifted to one side of I-15 allowing geometry for higher speeds as well as several short tunnels lowering peak grade percentages. Every decision Brightline has made has been made to make the project cheaper to build at the expense of performance. That said, it is a fair question whether the current approved plans will be sufficient for what the purpose here is. Obviously, we all want to see this thing get built and the money behind it felt making some sacrifices was worth it to do so and don't feel the negatives outweigh the positives.

Isn't the big plan to have everyone going to Vegas from NorCal to take the DesertXPress branch while everyone going to Vegas from SoCal would take the Rancho Cucamonga (and eventually LA Union Station) branch?

[Busy Bee]

^^^

???

Are you talking about the High Desert Corridor link once CHSR is running through Palmdale?