just out of interest: a comparison of Vancouver and Calgary

[speedog]

So much dumb shit being thrown around in this thread in the past few days.

Is there sprawl in Calgary, hell yes there is - I've been here going on 36 years and yes, Calgary has sprawl. Is there sprawl in the Vancouver CMA area - hell yes. The Toronto CMA area, hell yes. It's the Canadian way.

Calgary is only really starting to grow "up" in a residential sense but at the same time we are still building new communities that are more then 20km from the downtown core as the crow flies (Legacy) and have numerous new communities that area easily 10-15+ km out from the core and the housing in these new communities is going up at an incredible rate. Truthfully, I don't ever see a time in Calgary where there won't be that ever expanding sprawl - far too many people still want their own single family home with a garage and sprawl is the only thing that will provide that in an economical way to the masses. Legacy, Walden, Silverado, Auburn Bay, Cranston, Mahogany, Copperfield, Redstone, Skyview Ranch, Evanston, Simons Valley, Rocky Ridge, Crestmont are all just a few of these newer communities that are Calgary's sprawl.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by logan5

There are some street grid neighbourhoods in Calgary to build walk-able neighbourhoods around. The neighbourhoods flanking Centre St. N looks like a good place to start. Mid rise on the arterial road, stepping down to low rise, then row-house further away from the arterial street. That's what I would be pushing for, but overall maybe there's just not enough demand for this type of housing, and that's why you don't see more density.

This is all about the size of the city as has been mentioned before, up until fairly recently in Calgary you could commute to and from downtown in 15-20 minutes, even in rush hour, so there hasn't been demand for more urban type developments. With the city proper over 1.2m people now, that is starting to change and traffic is getting really bad, so there is now a push for urban living on a couple fronts, young people looking to avoid the commute and the city looking to avoid spending $billions on upgrading the road network. So what is going to start happening is large tracts of empty land in the inner city are getting bought up and built to have higher densities (Currie Barracks is a prime example http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Pages/C...curriebarracks )as are other TOD innitiatives and ongoing intensification in areas like Sunnyside and Bridgeland. We aren't at a similar densidy to inner city Vancouver, but I bet we will get there in the next 10 - 20 years. The suburbs will continue to sprawl, but pockets of density will become more common like they are in the GVR, though I doubt we will see metrotown type densities for a long time as there is no need for 40 storey towers outside downtown or the Beltline.

So long story short, this city definitely sprawls, but there are positives happening now and there is a major change in built form coming for this city, that doesn't mean SFH type development will stop, but that there will be a better mix of housing types in the future to mitigate sprawl to an extent.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by jawagord

What does it mean when people who live in larger cities with greater sprawl than Calgary think their cities don't sprawl?.

I agree. And Vancouverites are way often too back- patting about their city in this regard. Just saying that the question being discussed is whether Calgary is more sprawly than most. And it is. It's a trolling question, for sure, but that doesn't change the answer.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

This is all about the size of the city as has been mentioned before, up until fairly recently in Calgary you could commute to and from downtown in 15-20 minutes, even in rush hour, so there hasn't been demand for more urban type developments. With the city proper over 1.2m people now, that is starting to change and traffic is getting really bad, so there is now a push for urban living on a couple fronts, young people looking to avoid the commute and the city looking to avoid spending $billions on upgrading the road network. So what is going to start happening is large tracts of empty land in the inner city are getting bought up and built to have higher densities (Currie Barracks is a prime example http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Pages/C...curriebarracks )as are other TOD innitiatives and ongoing intensification in areas like Sunnyside and Bridgeland. We aren't at a similar densidy to inner city Vancouver, but I bet we will get there in the next 10 - 20 years. The suburbs will continue to sprawl, but pockets of density will become more common like they are in the GVR, though I doubt we will see metrotown type densities for a long time as there is no need for 40 storey towers outside downtown or the Beltline.

So long story short, this city definitely sprawls, but there are positives happening now and there is a major change in built form coming for this city, that doesn't mean SFH type development will stop, but that there will be a better mix of housing types in the future to mitigate sprawl to an extent.

Maybe you need to define "fairly recently" because in the time I've been here in Calgary (35+ years), I would say that 15-20 minutes, even in rush hour, to commute from an outlying community to the core have been a dream for 15-20 years at least if not longer.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by speedog

Maybe you need to define "fairly recently" because in the time I've been here in Calgary (35+ years), I would say that 15-20 minutes, even in rush hour, to commute from an outlying community to the core have been a dream for 15-20 years at least if not longer.

I'd say 10 - 15 years. I can still get to the far flung burbs from downtown in under 30 minutes, just have to know which roads to take...

[speedog]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

I'd say 10 - 15 years. I can still get to the far flung burbs from downtown in under 30 minutes, just have to know which roads to take...

Okay, the "right roads", but for the masses that don't take the "right roads" is easily 30 minutes plus and if more of the masses start taking the "right roads", then that advantage is lost. We need to work on the bell curve here with what most would experience and not those that maybe know their way around just a bit better.

Even for myself, my shortest commute distance is about 32km - yeah, I can take the ring road but the time spent to travel the extra 14km using the ring road route has to be factored in very carefully against my regular route. Are there the "right roads" I can take to shave some time off - yes there are, but it's often a really hit or miss thing as to whether or not those "right roads" sometimes save me any time.

Often staying on Deerfoot for me and being in the "optimum lane" at certain points in my commute pays more dividends then opting for the "right roads" - I've done the "right road" some times and have ended up further back then where I could've been if I had stayed the regular course. This I know because at some point I'll end up back on Deerfoot because of where I'm headed to and lo and behold, there's that transport truck now ahead of me instead of behind me when I left Deerfoot for the "right road".

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by speedog

Okay, the "right roads", but for the masses that don't take the "right roads" is easily 30 minutes plus and if more of the masses start taking the "right roads", then that advantage is lost. We need to work on the bell curve here with what most would experience and not those that maybe know their way around just a bit better.

Even for myself, my shortest commute distance is about 32km - yeah, I can take the ring road but the time spent to travel the extra 14km using the ring road route has to be factored in very carefully against my regular route. Are there the "right roads" I can take to shave some time off - yes there are, but it's often a really hit or miss thing as to whether or not those "right roads" sometimes save me any time.

Often staying on Deerfoot for me and being in the "optimum lane" at certain points in my commute pays more dividends then opting for the "right roads" - I've done the "right road" some times and have ended up further back then where I could've been if I had stayed the regular course. This I know because at some point I'll end up back on Deerfoot because of where I'm headed to and lo and behold, there's that transport truck now ahead of me instead of behind me when I left Deerfoot for the "right road".

We are basically saying the same thing now, most people will take one of the freeways or a major expressway like MacLeod to get home, and that's what is leading to major delays. Like i said though, there is a shift starting (has probably been underway for 15 years now) where people are choosing to live closer and density in the inner city is being built up as a result. With the leadership of a guy like Nenshi, I think this will only become more common in Calgary.

[speedog]

My family is an anomaly, we own a home within 5km of downtown but our business is on the very outskirts of the south part of the city. Won't move because we love our almost inner city community too much with all it's nearby conveniences and at the same time, the business can't be moved either. Downtown for me, usually around 10 minutes if I catch the lights right.

[Tropics]

What a goofy bloody thread.

Starts off with a "lets compare Vancouver and Calgary!" title.

Original poster the posts videos of Calgary's new SW portion of our ring road and spouts off like an ignorant moron about it like it is an inner city freeway and then completely forgets the title of his post and never even mentions Vancouver.

Calgary people come and correct the OP on what the ring road actually is and why it is as large as it is.

Other Vancouver people show up and respond with "yeah, but you guys sprawl like woah while we are teh urban~"

The whole actual purpose the OP had in mind for the thread commences, another "lets piss on that Calgary place again on SSP" thread carries on from there for 6+ bloody pages...