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  #1281  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 1:59 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I wonder if there's a way to build the bridge in a way that does not impact Kettle Island. Perhaps a suspension bridge that goes over it. Yes, it will be more expensive, but it will protect the environment while providing the most efficient link between A50 and the 417.

As for Western Chorus Frog, I assume they are between St-Louis and the River. If the Quebec side pier is north of St-Louis, construction could mostly avoid the natural habitat.

Another solution might be to curve the route on the Quebec side, around the houses to connect with Jacques-Cartier and cross closer to the tip of Kettle. Maybe even a curved bridge. Again, that would make the crossing far more expensive, but that is the cost of balancing different priorities. The more we wait, the more challenging and expensive this project will be.
I may be mistaken but I think the frogs are actually at the corner of Montée Paiement and Boulevard du Carrefour. On the plot of land just north of the Home Depot.

Both the new arena project and the Library and Archives project had issues related to this same amphibian, so I assume that's what they mean when they say it is near Montée Paiement.

"Montée Paiement" does not really extend to St-Louis and the river. At least not yet.

Another point is that as I've already said, the roadway on Montée Paiement probably is going to stay as it is now after the bridge is built.

So if the land north of Home Depot is what they are talking about, they aren't going to be running a new road over the frogs there.

I guess there is the question of the impact of increased heavy truck traffic nearby.
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  #1282  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 2:10 PM
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Thanks for the clarification. Then I don't see how these frogs will be directly impacted by the new bridge. Any environmental impact from the increased traffic could be mitigated by some fairly minor roadwork, I'm sure.

Based on the mentioned issues with La Slush and Archives, the City and developers have far bigger problems if they want this area to become a new TOD/downtown area.
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  #1283  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 2:43 PM
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If you read this, there is actually a zone to the west of the bridge approach road. Zone U-5. It's a medium to low conservation priority, from what I gather.

https://mffp.gouv.qc.ca/documents/fa...e-gatineau.pdf
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  #1284  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 2:50 PM
khabibulin khabibulin is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I wonder if there's a way to build the bridge in a way that does not impact Kettle Island. Perhaps a suspension bridge that goes over it. Yes, it will be more expensive, but it will protect the environment while providing the most efficient link between A50 and the 417.

As for Western Chorus Frog, I assume they are between St-Louis and the River. If the Quebec side pier is north of St-Louis, construction could mostly avoid the natural habitat.

Another solution might be to curve the route on the Quebec side, around the houses to connect with Jacques-Cartier and cross closer to the tip of Kettle. Maybe even a curved bridge. Again, that would make the crossing far more expensive, but that is the cost of balancing different priorities. The more we wait, the more challenging and expensive this project will be.
Or.....just build the Bridge at Lower Duck Island.
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  #1285  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 3:18 PM
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Or.....just build the Bridge at Lower Duck Island.
Extremely unlikely and not very useful or practical.
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  #1286  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 4:01 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I don't see a huge exodus of Ontarians towards Gatineau if a Kettle Island Bridge is built. Ontario offers low taxes, good health care and higher home prices. Gatineau has cheap education, low home prices, terrible health care and but high taxes. The culture is very different. I feel like most have decided where they want to stay.
This will have a large impact on decisions on where to live:

Royal LePage reported Ottawa home prices jumped to $527,290 this summer, even as the typical Gatineau property was priced at a much more affordable $276,621.

Similarly, the average asking rent for a one-bedroom apartment in Ottawa reached $1,500 this summer, according to Zumper, a North American listings platform. Compare that to just $1,045 a month in Gatineau.
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  #1287  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 4:35 PM
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At least the rents seem to reflect the tax differences. The housing prices might too when you look at mortgage payments.
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  #1288  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 5:32 PM
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At least the rents seem to reflect the tax differences. The housing prices might too when you look at mortgage payments.
I did some quick calculations. Of course there are a lot of things that can vary the numbers, but if you take out a mortage for the rough price difference these days, you'll be paying about 1200 a month on that.

So about 15000 dollars a year *less* in Quebec for housing.

I then checked out income tax calculators. For a couple with two incomes, they each would have to make about 150000 per year in order to arrive at a 15000 tax difference in Ontario's favour (2 x 7500).
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  #1289  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 5:45 PM
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I'm sure this has been considered and rejected, but why not a tunnel under the river along the same axis proposed for the Kettle Island bridge? If the bridge is purported to cost $1.8B, will a tunnel really clock in at that much more?

For comparison, the Sandy Hill Truck Tunnel was purported to cost ~$2B in 2016 dollars, at a length of 3.4km, which should be similar to the total length of this crossing.
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  #1290  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 6:14 PM
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I'm going to discuss ecological sensitivity. And the approaches might be more challenging.
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  #1291  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 6:28 PM
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I'm sure this has been considered and rejected, but why not a tunnel under the river along the same axis proposed for the Kettle Island bridge? If the bridge is purported to cost $1.8B, will a tunnel really clock in at that much more?

For comparison, the Sandy Hill Truck Tunnel was purported to cost ~$2B in 2016 dollars, at a length of 3.4km, which should be similar to the total length of this crossing.
I don't know if this always holds true in Canada, but IIRC, trucks with dangerous goods won't have been able to use the tunnel.

Quote:
I'm going to discuss ecological sensitivity. And the approaches might be more challenging.
Ottawa side of things may be fine, but yes, Gatineau side seems a lot more challenging.
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  #1292  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 6:34 PM
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If the cost of tunnels were generally comparable to the price tags of bridges, wouldn't we see way more tunnels?
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  #1293  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2020, 3:15 PM
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I asked the same, and it turned out that Ottawa River was too shallow to be navigable around NCC.
Then dredge the river. Or will the NCC block it? Do they exist for any reason other than to prevent Ottawa from being a functioning city?
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  #1294  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2020, 3:19 PM
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Then dredge the river. Or will the NCC block it? Do they exist for any reason other than to prevent Ottawa from being a functioning city?
Ever been to Remic Rapids Park?

Also, allowing cargo ships on Ottawa River means that every single bridge needs to be redesigned to give that clearance.

Most importantly, Lac des Deux Montagnes, where Ottawa River joins St Lawrence, is exclusively in Quebec. I highly doubt Quebec will allow cargo ships to go through there.
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  #1295  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2020, 11:01 PM
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Ever been to Remic Rapids Park?

Also, allowing cargo ships on Ottawa River means that every single bridge needs to be redesigned to give that clearance.

Most importantly, Lac des Deux Montagnes, where Ottawa River joins St Lawrence, is exclusively in Quebec. I highly doubt Quebec will allow cargo ships to go through there.
Ships would go through the Rideau Canal, the very thing it was originally designed for.
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  #1296  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2020, 11:27 PM
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My point about insufficient clearance stands then.

Edit: Never mind, I stand corrected. The clearance might not be an issue. Hmm, changing the transportation mode more than once though... how inconvenient.
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  #1297  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2020, 11:41 PM
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Ships would go through the Rideau Canal, the very thing it was originally designed for.
Ya, lets use our beautiful, picturesque, world heritage site for cargo shipments. Everyone will love it.
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  #1298  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2020, 12:32 AM
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Ya, lets use our beautiful, picturesque, world heritage site for cargo shipments. Everyone will love it.
The skaters can pull the barges on the ice in the winter months. Fitness AND logistics.
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  #1299  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2020, 7:57 AM
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Barges may be the dumbest Ottawa-related idea I have ever heard.
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  #1300  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2020, 3:45 AM
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Ya, lets use our beautiful, picturesque, world heritage site for cargo shipments. Everyone will love it.
Just because something is beautiful, doesn't mean it can't serve some other purpose, especially if that allows the people who live in Lowertown to enjoy the beauty of that space. IMO, we should prioritize the people that live in an area over the people that just come to visit for a couple of hours once a week.
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