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  #5361  
Old Posted Yesterday, 6:42 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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^ Yep, and more infective variants tend to spread more through younger people, not older people.

The 'vaccine factor' in all of this is being ignored. When you have enough of a demographic vaccinated, it begins to impact the epidemiology of disease:

Quote:
Don't worry about coronavirus variants overpowering vaccines, experts say
Alexander Nazaryan
Alexander Nazaryan·National Correspondent
Mon, April 12, 2021, 3:12 PM·5 min read


Coronavirus

Paul Offit

WASHINGTON — Over the weekend, seemingly troubling news emerged from Israel, with a study suggesting that the coronavirus vaccine manufactured by Pfizer and BioNTech was less effective against B.1.351, a variant first encountered in South Africa. One headline called the study “alarming.”

Meanwhile, two of the New York Post’s most-read stories as of Monday morning were about a 31-year-old woman in New York City who tested positive for the coronavirus three weeks after receiving the vaccine and a 52-year-old man who ended up in the hospital with COVID-19, despite having also been vaccinated.

Together, such reports in the mainstream media of “breakthrough” infections of the vaccinated can foster the inaccurate narrative that COVID-19 vaccines are not effective, especially against new strains of the coronavirus, some of which had not yet emerged when those vaccines were being developed.

“The mainstream media want to scare people,” Dr. Paul Offit of the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, a pioneer of vaccine science, told Yahoo News. That criticism appears to be bolstered by a recent paper by Dartmouth economist Bruce Sacerdote and his colleagues, which found that 91 percent of media reporting in the U.S. is “negative in tone,” even when news about the pandemic is actually encouraging.

Offit believes that “we need a word different than ‘breakthrough’” because the image of broadly breached defenses is simply not an accurate one. “Those vaccines are doing what they need to do” by keeping people out of the hospital, he said.

“The breakthrough cases will become vanishingly small,” predicted Dr. Peter Jay Hotez, dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor, especially as spread of the more transmissible B.1.1.7 variant — now dominant in the U.S. — is attenuated in the coming weeks.

“Until then, that’s why we recommend masks,” Hotez said, along with other non-pharmaceutical interventions, like social distancing.

For all the publicity its findings have engendered about breakthrough infections, the Israeli study makes clear that non-pharmaceutical measures like the ones Hotez and others have been advocating for months are effective, especially when combined with widespread vaccination. The study says vaccines are “the safest and most effective means of preventing the onwards spread” of the coronavirus — including of the South African and any other strain.

The Biden administration is desperate to ramp up vaccinations so the country can return to a semblance of normalcy come summer (the president has touted a close-to-ordinary Fourth of July holiday). But reports about breakthrough infections could lead people to conclude that vaccination is futile to begin with. Widespread vaccine hesitancy is far more likely to prolong the pandemic than a plague of breakthrough infections.

“We see this with all vaccines in clinical trials and in the real world,” Dr. Anthony Fauci, a top adviser on the pandemic to the Biden administration, said during a Monday briefing of the White House COVID-19 response team. “No vaccine is 100 percent efficacious or effective, which means that you will always see breakthrough infections, regardless of the efficacy of your vaccine.”

Breakthroughs have a “remarkably low incidence,” Dr. Eric Topol, founder and director of the Scripps Research Translational Institute, told Yahoo News in an email, “perhaps as low as 0.1 percent.” Echoing what Offit and others have argued, Topol said that despite the imagery the word “breakthrough” might evoke, such infections are “also remarkably benign, i.e., few are associated with pneumonia or serious illness.”

The vaccines being used in the United States are all about 90 percent effective at preventing infection; even more important, they are nearly 100 percent effective at stopping serious illness and death. But they are not perfect, and with more than 3 million people getting jabs across the United States per day, there are bound to be anomalies.

“A proportion of breakthrough infections are expected. Otherwise, vaccine trials would all have reported 100% efficacy,” wrote University College London geneticist Francois Balloux on Twitter, in a long thread criticizing “lurid and alarmist” studies, an obvious reference to the Israeli report, which has not yet been subject to peer review.

“Breakthrough infections are a trivial concern as long as they don’t lead to serious disease in the infected, and onward transmission of the virus remains limited,” Balloux added.

During the 2019-20 flu season, the flu vaccine was only 39 percent effective, but nevertheless managed to prevent 7.5 million cases of the flu, 6,300 of which, scientists estimate, would have resulted in death. The point was obvious: Even a vaccine much less effective than those now available for the coronavirus will stop a virus from spreading.

That is, if people get the vaccine. According to the data presented by Fauci, the flu vaccination rate for the relevant time period was 51.8 percent for all American adults and children older than 6 months. About 19.9 percent of Americans have been fully vaccinated against the coronavirus, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (some share of the population also has antibodies from having been sickened with COVID-19).

“Even if a vaccine fails to protect against infection, it often protects against serious disease,” Fauci added. The 31-year-old woman in the New York Post article, for example, apparently had only minor symptoms.

Fauci also criticized the Israeli study on the South African variant, calling it “about as confusing as you could possibly be” and criticizing the way its findings were reported. “There were essentially no deaths or hospitalizations in the individuals who were vaccinated,” he said at another point during the briefing, seeming to reference the Israeli study but not mentioning it explicitly.

The South African variant accounts for only 1 percent of all infections in Israel. In fact, the study’s authors urge “caution” against “over-interperting” their results, noting that, at least as far as Israel has been concerned, “selection does not strongly favour the B.1.351 variant.”

The much more common variant was B.1.1.7, sometimes also known as the British variant. It is also now the dominant strain in the United States. Vaccines are highly effective against it.
https://news.yahoo.com/dont-worry-ab...abbT4WP0RuOmJJ
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  #5362  
Old Posted Yesterday, 6:42 PM
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Originally Posted by homebucket View Post
Most of the new variants are not more deadly, just more contagious. Now, it is possible that other new ones not fully studied yet could be more deadly but that is still unknown.

Why we're seeing younger people get infected proportionally more than older people now is because of vaccinations. I believe close to 75% of 65+ here have been vaccinated, and we know that one dose alone already achieves pretty optimal efficacy. Obviously two doses is better, but one dose is already enough to slow down the spread. Younger people who still aren't vaccinated are working, congregating, hanging out, doing what young people do, and for children, going back to school for in person learning, so that's why we're seeing more cases, proportionally to older people. Not more cases overall. Michigan is probably the exception.
It was pointed out above that the infections are skewing younger in other parts of the world too, in places with lower vaccination rates. So, behavior is probably the overriding factor.

I also don't think we fully understand why infections in the early pandemic skewed older. That could've also been driven by situation, since nursing homes seem to be very effective super spreader situations. And healthy elderly people were probably visiting nursing homes often to see other elderly people, and then they'd probably go socialize with other large groups of healthy elderly. OTOH, places where young people congregate were shutdown pretty early (schools, dormitories, offices, bars, restaurants, etc).

Yes, the above is a lot of speculation, but a lot of the recent talk in this thread is operating under an assumption that everyone has been equally exposed to the virus, and I don't think there's enough evidence to say that with certainty.
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  #5363  
Old Posted Yesterday, 8:31 PM
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I didn't even think of this, but it's an interesting correlation; bad air quality contributes to bad health and hence underlying health conditions...



From stateofreform.com:

COVID-19 Mortality Rates in Los Angeles County Higher in Communities with Poor Air Quality

UCLA Fielding School of Public Health | Apr 14, 2021

A research project led by the UCLA Fielding School of Public Health has found that Los Angeles County neighborhoods with poor air quality had the highest death rates from the pandemic.

“Our findings imply a potentially large association between exposure to air pollution and population-level rates of COVID-19 cases and deaths,” said Dr. Michael Jerrett, Fielding School professor of environmental health sciences and the project’s leader. “These findings are especially important for targeting interventions aimed at limiting the impact of COVID-19 in polluted communities.”

The research – “Spatial Analysis of COVID-19 and Traffic-related Air Pollution in Los Angeles” – is being published in the upcoming August, 2021 edition of the peer-reviewed journal Environment International, and is now available on-line. One example of the findings: Los Angeles County neighborhoods with the worst air quality saw a 60% increase in COVID-19 fatalities, compared with communities with the best air quality.

“In the U.S., more polluted communities often have lower incomes and higher proportions of Black and Latinx people. In addition, Black and Latinx people have higher rates of pre-existing conditions, potentially further exacerbating the risk of COVID-19 transmission and death,” said co-author Jonah M. Lipsitt, a PhD candidate and researcher with the Fielding School’s UCLA Center for Healthy Climate Solutions. “The elevated risk of case incidence and mortality observed in these populations may result, in part, from higher exposure to air pollution.”

The research team, from UCLA’s Fielding School (FSPH), the University of California, Berkeley, and the University of California, Merced, analyzed the relationship of air pollution and COVID-19 case incidence, mortality, and case-fatality rates in neighborhoods of Los Angeles County. They focused on nitrogen dioxide (NO2) because the pollutant serves as a marker for traffic-related air pollution, or TRAP, generally.

“We know that TRAP is associated with many respiratory morbidities, including asthma, chronic pulmonary disease, lung cancer, and respiratory tract infections, as well as hospitalizations, mortality, and an increased risk of respiratory viral infection,” said Dr. Yifang Zhu, FSPH professor of environmental health sciences and senior associate dean for academic programs. “Nitrogen dioxide, for example, has been found to impair the function of alveolar macrophages and epithelial cells, thereby increasing the risk of lung infections.”

The work reaches down to the city- and neighborhood-level in Los Angeles County, home to more than 10 million people, a population larger than 40 U.S. states.

“Los Angeles is one of the only metropolitan cities globally to publicly report neighborhood-level COVID-19 cases and mortality,” said co-author Dr. Alec M. Chan-Golston, an assistant professor at UC Merced. “These data gave us the opportunity to study a large population, but at a “neighborhood-level, which allows for more accurate pollution exposure estimates.”

The researchers have benefitted from exhaustive records related to the pandemic made public by the city of Los Angeles and the Los Angeles County Department of Public Health (LACDPH). The local focus, however, does not mean the findings are of interest only to Angelenos, Lipsett said.

“Los Angeles is a global epicenter for the pandemic with more than 1.1 million cases to date, but our key conclusion?” he said. “Long-term air pollution exposure, anywhere, is likely to increase the risk of COVID-19 infection and death.”

Methods: Researchers used data from the Los Angeles County Department of Public Health (LACDPH) and the American Community Survey (ACS), produced by the U.S. Census Bureau. This data was compared with statewide air quality data from 2016.

The original study period captured approximately the first six months of the pandemic (March 16th to September 8th, 2020); it was expanded to the subsequent six months (September 8th, 2020 to February 23rd, 2021). This replicated analysis for the subsequent 6-month period had nearly four times the incident cases (875,368 cases) as the first period (230,621 cases).

In comparing the two time periods, before and after September 8th, 2020, researchers found that the results were largely consistent, despite very different case numbers, testing regimes, and improvements in classifying deaths. While some differences exist in the size of the effects, overall the conclusions remain the same.

This press release was provided by the UCLA Fielding School of Public Health.

Link: https://stateofreform.com/featured/2...r-air-quality/
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  #5364  
Old Posted Yesterday, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
Don't worry about coronavirus variants overpowering vaccines, experts say

Quote:
Evidence for increased breakthrough rates of SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern in BNT162b2 mRNA [Pfizer] vaccinated individuals
Talia Kustin, Noam Harel, Uriah Finkel, Shay Perchik, Sheri Harari, Maayan Tahor, Itamar Caspi, Rachel Levy, Michael Leschinsky, Shifra Ken Dror, Galit Bergerzon, Hala Gadban, Faten Gadban, Eti Eliassian, Orit Shimron, Loulou Saleh, Haim Ben-Zvi, Doron Amichay, Anat Ben-Dor, Dana Sagas, Merav Strauss, Yonat Shemer Avni, Amit Huppert, Eldad Kepten, Ran D. Balicer, Doron Nezer, Shay Ben-Shachar, View ORCID ProfileAdi Stern
doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/2021.04.06.21254882

Summary

The SARS-CoV-2 pandemic has been raging for over a year, creating global detrimental impact. The BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine has demonstrated high protection levels, yet apprehension exists that several variants of concerns (VOCs) can surmount the immune defenses generated by the vaccines. Neutralization assays have revealed some reduction in neutralization of VOCs B.1.1.7 and B.1.351, but the relevance of these assays in real life remains unclear. Here, we performed a case-control study that examined whether BNT162b2 vaccinees with documented SARS-CoV-2 infection were more likely to become infected with B.1.1.7 or B.1.351 compared with unvaccinated individuals. Vaccinees infected at least a week after the second dose were disproportionally infected with B.1.351 (South African--odds ratio of 8:1). Those infected between two weeks after the first dose and one week after the second dose, were disproportionally infected by B.1.1.7 (UK--odds ratio of 26:10), suggesting reduced vaccine effectiveness against both VOCs under different dosage/timing conditions. Nevertheless, the B.1.351 incidence in Israel to-date remains low and vaccine effectiveness remains high against B.1.1.7, among those fully vaccinated. These results overall suggest that vaccine breakthrough infection is more frequent with both VOCs, yet a combination of mass-vaccination with two doses coupled with non-pharmaceutical interventions control and contain their spread.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....06.21254882v1
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  #5365  
Old Posted Yesterday, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by homebucket View Post
Most of the new variants are not more deadly, just more contagious.
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ Yep, and more infective variants tend to spread more through younger people, not older people.

The 'vaccine factor' in all of this is being ignored. When you have enough of a demographic vaccinated, it begins to impact the epidemiology of disease:
That is not known for certain. It is largely speculation and there is considerable evidence otherwise. Those who assume it to be true are taking a risk. And I would urge anyone making such a statement here to provide an authoritative reference. Otherwise, it's just a personal opinion/belief and must be taken as such.

Work is ongoing. But I'm willing to bet that when all is said and done what we find is that while the vaccines are still highly effective against currently existing strains of virus, there is SOME effectiveness differential with the maximum effectiveness against the original strain of virus used to produce the vaccines and probably the lowest level of effectiveness (but still quite good) against the South African and Brazilian strains. Nevertheless, as mutations continue because in parts of the world high levels of viral reproduction continue, it seems quite serious risk that eventually strains will emerge against which the current vaccines offer inadequate (if not zero) protection. This isn't a bizarre belief. It's a common way that viruses work and it's why the major vaccine makers are prepared to make newer vaccines against newer strains when and if necessary.
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  #5366  
Old Posted Yesterday, 10:45 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
That is not known for certain. It is largely speculation and there is considerable evidence otherwise. Those who assume it to be true are taking a risk. And I would urge anyone making such a statement here to provide an authoritative reference. Otherwise, it's just a personal opinion/belief and must be taken as such.


You are seriously going nuts. Buy yourself an airtight bubble already and live in it, man.....

Meanwhile, for the rest of the sane world, "We don't know for sure" doesn't equate to "We're all doomed!!!" It instead equates to "We don't know for sure. Don't panic, live your life with care and get your vaccine as recommended"

By the way, you obviously read NOBODY'S posts, Pedestrian, because that exact Israeli study that you posted was already critiqued in the article I posted above. Even Fauci, who is pretty much the most cautious of them all, was pretty harshly critical and dismissive of it.

Quote:
“Even if a vaccine fails to protect against infection, it often protects against serious disease,” Fauci added. The 31-year-old woman in the New York Post article, for example, apparently had only minor symptoms.

Fauci also criticized the Israeli study on the South African variant, calling it “about as confusing as you could possibly be” and criticizing the way its findings were reported. “There were essentially no deaths or hospitalizations in the individuals who were vaccinated,” he said at another point during the briefing, seeming to reference the Israeli study but not mentioning it explicitly.
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  #5367  
Old Posted Yesterday, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
That is not known for certain. It is largely speculation and there is considerable evidence otherwise. Those who assume it to be true are taking a risk. And I would urge anyone making such a statement here to provide an authoritative reference. Otherwise, it's just a personal opinion/belief and must be taken as such.

Work is ongoing. But I'm willing to bet that when all is said and done what we find is that while the vaccines are still highly effective against currently existing strains of virus, there is SOME effectiveness differential with the maximum effectiveness against the original strain of virus used to produce the vaccines and probably the lowest level of effectiveness (but still quite good) against the South African and Brazilian strains. Nevertheless, as mutations continue because in parts of the world high levels of viral reproduction continue, it seems quite serious risk that eventually strains will emerge against which the current vaccines offer inadequate (if not zero) protection.
We already know that the UK strain is not more deadly. The South African one does have a higher chance of breaking through the current set of vaccines but is not associated with severe infection requiring hospitalization. So while you can get infected despite being fully vaccinated, the risk of a poor outcome is very low.
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  #5368  
Old Posted Yesterday, 10:53 PM
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You are seriously going nuts.
And you are on the edge of being nothing but insulting and offering no information.

I pretty much said exactly what Fauci is quoted as saying--"Even if a vaccine fails to protect against infection, it often protects against serious disease"--but this virus isn't finished mutating and vaccine effectiveness isn't "either/or". Vaccines can be a bit more or a bit less effective and there can be a progression as I think we are seeing--a progression toward less effectiveness that so far can be dismissed, as Fauci and all the others quoted in your post are want to do, but eventually may not.
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  #5369  
Old Posted Yesterday, 10:59 PM
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We already know that the UK strain is not more deadly.
I'm not sure we know that. One day the "experts" tell us that, the next day one or the other of them says something different. Right now it's reasonable to believe that its deadliness isn't enough different to matter.

Quote:
The South African one does have a higher chance of breaking through the current set of vaccines but is not associated with severe infection requiring hospitalization. So while you can get infected despite being fully vaccinated, the risk of a poor outcome is very low.
The South African strain is not yet dominant enough most places to know for sure what you are saying and again, if you're going to make that kind of statement provide some references.
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  #5370  
Old Posted Yesterday, 11:02 PM
homebucket homebucket is online now
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
I'm not sure we know that. One day the "experts" tell us that, the next day one or the other of them says something different. Right now it's reasonable to believe that its deadliness isn't enough different to matter.
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...ath-study-find

Quote:
The South African strain is not yet dominant enough most places to know for sure what you are saying and again, if you're going to make that kind of statement provide some references.
You posted it yourself in post #5364.
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  #5371  
Old Posted Yesterday, 11:07 PM
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You posted it yourself in post #5364.
That didn't say the South African strain wasn't "associated with severe infection requiring hospitalization". It says it can be contained with "a combination of mass-vaccination with two doses coupled with non-pharmaceutical interventions." Trouble is, they are talking about preventing infection, not what happens if you get infected. They aren't addressing how severe the illness is.
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  #5372  
Old Posted Yesterday, 11:12 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Pedestrian, you are contradicting yourself and simply spouting your own fears.

I've heard your comments on this matter. You haven't left your home in over a year, won't go anywhere, won't ride in an Uber, refuse to ever use transit again... That's pretty much enough for me to see where you're coming from.

That level of fear may be enough for you, but don't expect the rest of the world to live with so much trepidation.

Yes, a mutant can eventually emerge that will finally overcome the vaccines that exist right now, but I and the rest of the world are not going to go about our lives constantly in fear of dying like you are. You sound like Howard Hughes did later in life.....
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  #5373  
Old Posted Yesterday, 11:23 PM
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Everybody is at risk for PASC though, as well as 1/3 of covid patients will have neuropsychiatric conditions. If people don't feel they are at risk, they should volunteer at hospitals and participate in forced injections (of covid) for scientific research. Then if possible, mass produce vaccines from these special humans.
This is also not really true.
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  #5374  
Old Posted Yesterday, 11:25 PM
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When you stop pretending you are invulnerable and governments should let people like you do as you wish no matter whom it puts at risk.

What I posted just above doesn't compare Brazil to other countries so it's relatively young population is irrelevant. It compares what's happening now with the new virus variant with what happened previously in Brazil. And Brazil hasn't vaccinated enough residents old or young to explain the difference either. It's Brazilian scientists who are saying they believe the new variant is more dangerous to younger people but you and the rest of the COVID fatigue brigade seem in denial as much as ever.
You are flirting with a form of psychosis about this. Let it go.
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  #5375  
Old Posted Yesterday, 11:30 PM
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You are flirting with a form of psychosis about this. Let it go.
Are you finally going to present your credentials for making diagnoses? What you seem to be saying is "disagreeing with ME is psychotic". Your name should be Narcissus.

For the record, when I think you are wrong I will continue to say so like any participant here has a right to do. If you want the subject dropped, stop making incorrect, unsupported statements.

Last edited by Pedestrian; Yesterday at 11:41 PM.
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  #5376  
Old Posted Yesterday, 11:44 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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This is what Homebucket said:

Quote:
Most of the new variants are not more deadly, just more contagious.
Then this is how Pedestrian responded:

Quote:
That is not known for certain. It is largely speculation and there is considerable evidence otherwise. Those who assume it to be true are taking a risk.
Then Pedestrian takes us in a bizarre direction with this even more confusing statement:

Quote:
I pretty much said exactly what Fauci is quoted as saying--"Even if a vaccine fails to protect against infection, it often protects against serious disease"--but this virus isn't finished mutating and vaccine effectiveness isn't "either/or". Vaccines can be a bit more or a bit less effective and there can be a progression as I think we are seeing--a progression toward less effectiveness that so far can be dismissed, as Fauci and all the others quoted in your post are want to do, but eventually may not.


I guess we should be afraid because um...well....you never know...something bad might happen....because even though I don't see any signs of it yet it might just well come down the road....just wait for it because...well...something in my gut just kinda sorta makes me worried and I just KNOW it's coming any day now.......
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  #5377  
Old Posted Today, 12:00 AM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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I have a question for the "COVID is mutating and the vaccine may eventually stop working" porn crowd:

What happens when a new vaccine for the mutant strain is created?

Then we get that shot.

Then the mutant strain mutates further so that the new shot is no longer effective?

Then we will get a new shot for the new strains...

Then that shot is no longer effective because COVID has mutated even further..

But then there's another new shot...

And another set of new mutations....

And another new shot....

All the while ALL of NYC's restaurants, gyms, and bars are long closed & the roofs collapsed..
All of the hotels everywhere are abandoned
We all are connected via wires from our scalps to our laptops and order everything on Amazon while watching CNN updates on COVID infection rates 24/7
And Pedestrian now has long hair, a long beard, looks like Gandalf, and slurps all of his meals through a sterile straw

But we will STILL BE SAFE!!!!!!
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  #5378  
Old Posted Today, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
Are you finally going to present your credentials for making diagnoses? What you seem to be saying is "disagreeing with ME is psychotic". Your name should be Narcissus.

For the record, when I think you are wrong I will continue to say so like any participant here has a right to do. If you want the subject dropped, stop making incorrect, unsupported statements.
Except it’s not me making incorrect, unsupported statements. It’s me and like a dozen other forumers making statements which are supported by a year’s worth of clinical and statistical data, and then you and one or two other hypochondriacs saying that the sky is falling and young, healthy people need to act like we are still in lockdown or they’ll all die.
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  #5379  
Old Posted Today, 1:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
I have a question for the "COVID is mutating and the vaccine may eventually stop working" porn crowd:

What happens when a new vaccine for the mutant strain is created?

Then we get that shot.

Then the mutant strain mutates further so that the new shot is no longer effective?

Then we will get a new shot for the new strains...

Then that shot is no longer effective because COVID has mutated even further..

But then there's another new shot...

And another set of new mutations....

And another new shot....

All the while ALL of NYC's restaurants, gyms, and bars are long closed & the roofs collapsed..
All of the hotels everywhere are abandoned
We all are connected via wires from our scalps to our laptops and order everything on Amazon while watching CNN updates on COVID infection rates 24/7
And Pedestrian now has long hair, a long beard, looks like Gandalf, and slurps all of his meals through a sterile straw

But we will STILL BE SAFE!!!!!!
LOL Exactly.


I have already spent 13 months of my life living like this, I am done.

What if I die at 50? I would have spent 2% of my life inside.



At what point do you fearmongers just say "alright, this is a virus, we have to move on with our lives before we don't have the same life to move back to?" 2 more months? 6? 1 year? Never?

If you think normal people are gonna continue to put their lives on hold because of your fear, sorry, not going to happen.
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