DETROIT | Development & Construction: Motown Lowdown

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

^That really should be a light rail route. But yea, money, politics, blah blah blah. At least if it gets its own ROW then that's better than nothing, and possibly in the future, the lanes could easily be upgraded for LRT. But that's just being optimistic.

I was surprised that streetcar wasn't even considered given the density along Woodward. They looked at BRT with and without its own ROW, and LRT. I know there are greater distances involved, but I still think streetcar might be the appropriate choice for this corridor, or some type of hybrid, if it had light rail-like segments of greater distances between nodes of greater activity. BRT with its own ROW I would imagine is much easier to convert to streetcar as opposed to light rail, but that might depend on the initial design.

Light rail seems more appropriate to me on a corridor like Michigan Ave., heading out toward the airport.

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by subterranean

I was surprised that streetcar wasn't even considered given the density along Woodward. They looked at BRT with and without its own ROW, and LRT. I know there are greater distances involved, but I still think streetcar might be the appropriate choice for this corridor, or some type of hybrid, if it had light rail-like segments of greater distances between nodes of greater activity. BRT with its own ROW I would imagine is much easier to convert to streetcar as opposed to light rail, but that might depend on the initial design.

Light rail seems more appropriate to me on a corridor like Michigan Ave., heading out toward the airport.

Perhaps. But pretty much all of Woodward north of 7 Mile has a pretty wide median that could easily fit transit lines even possibly without having to have at grade intersections with crossroads.

In the original Downtown to 8 Mile LRT proposal, there was a section of that demo video (which is blocked due to copyright claims) where they showed a station a Woodward and McNichols. If I'm not mistaken, the rail lines went into a shallow tunnel in order to pass the Michigan left turns that are north of McNichols and returned to grade at the station at 7 Mile. So it would possibly be a separate grade LRT line slightly below street level as an option to avoid snarling up left-turning traffic. Though I'm also pretty sure I saw other renderings/maps that showed the Michigan lefts being altered to have cars stop farther back with an at-grade crossing of the rails. Either way, I think LRT would be a pretty good option over streetcar given how wide and how much space Woodward itself takes up.

Of course it all greatly depends on budget, as always, since separate grade rail is predictably more expensive. But Metro Detroit's economy could support it, no doubt. It's just a matter of actually wanting to support it.

EDIT: Actually yea nevermind, I see what you mean. LRT from downtown to the airport while BRT operates on Woodward. Makes sense.

[hudkina]

Having all turn-arounds have a traffic light at the end of the straight-away as opposed to having the traffic lights/stop signs at the far side of the curve would make the most sense. The train could be timed with the lights, so it would essentially be the same as grade separation but without the massive costs. Such routes could travel along Fort, Michigan, Grand River, Gratiot, Van Dyke and Woodward as well as suburban lines along 8 Mile, Telegraph, Hall, Metro Parkway/16 Mile, Northwestern Hwy, etc.

[LMich]

Originally Posted by subterranean

I was surprised that streetcar wasn't even considered given the density along Woodward. They looked at BRT with and without its own ROW, and LRT.

The whole process seemed like a set-up, to me. It's like they injected questions and issues of politics and costs before they even started the study, instead of letting those arise in the appropriate part of the process, naturally.

I compare this to the Lansing study, where BRT was ultimately picked as the locally prefered alternative, and they include everything from a simple increase in regular bus service all the way to light rail (with streetcar and BRT, in between). Ultimately, they came to settle on BRT and modified it so that it's a really "heavy" form of BRT, but the process was thorough and it felt honest so no one really ended up complaining. By comparison, you could kind of feel from the beginning that they'd already steered this to cut out anything beyond a bus service. It seems to me with the corridor's density and the length of the area studied that you really couldn't have anything less than LRT that would make sense for such a long distance. Unless this BRT had a dedicated RTW, they might as well just run some extra SMART buses with signal priority and be done with it, because that's all it would end up amounting to.

Meh.

BTW, I'm still interested exactly how they are going to coordinate all of the regional services south of the Boulevard. From what I understand, they are still very much planning to run the Woodward Local and Limited routes of SMART and the DDOT's #53 bus in this corridor along with the streetcar and BRT. Now, the SMART routes and rush hours and limiteds, but that still leaves DDOT's #53 and streetcar overlapping in a lot of spots and the BRT competeting with the SMART routes.

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by LMich

BTW, I'm still interested exactly how they are going to coordinate all of the regional services south of the Boulevard. From what I understand, they are still very much planning to run the Woodward Local and Limited routes of SMART and the DDOT's #53 bus in this corridor along with the streetcar and BRT. Now, the SMART routes and rush hours and limiteds, but that still leaves DDOT's #53 and streetcar overlapping in a lot of spots and the BRT competeting with the SMART routes.

So there's going to be 3 buses and a streetcar going down Woodward???

Well, actually that doesn't seem terribly bad because a big percentage of riders would still probably ride the streetcar because of the novelty of it being a train.

Long distance riders would be on BRT and local riders would most probably use DDOT. So really, SMART is the one that loses out the most and I wouldn't be surprised if they took out the Woodward route completely after a time.

The only thing that might hurt is the complexity of people not knowing if the BRT is long distance or the streetcar is long distance. I could imagine some poor tourist hopping on the train at Campus Martius thinking they were going to head out to Royal Oak only to find themselves at Grand. Not that it's a bad area, but they might not be expecting that they'd have to get on the BRT for the rest of the journey.


EDIT: Here's some proposed maps, not sure if you had seen these already.

http://www.woodwardanalysis.com/pdfs...ingOptions.pdf

[animatedmartian]

Progress on the Garden Theatre restoration. An interesting blend of old and new.



















Via Curbed: http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2...estoration.php

[LMich]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

EDIT: Here's some proposed maps, not sure if you had seen these already.

http://www.woodwardanalysis.com/pdfs...ingOptions.pdf

Yeah, I'd either posted that here or in the Detroit mass transit thread. I believe there are three different alignments with two of them taking the line off Woodward through much of lower Midtown. I really can't see them taking it off Woodward if only because of visibility of the service even though it may make more sense.

I think the problem with all of this (particularly the streetcar ending around Grand) is that you kind of facilitate having to build a new physical hub of sorts somewhere in the area if you want to make it easy to change modes. I guess you could always simply combine a bus and streetcar stop near Woodward/Grand, but were I transfering modes, I'd want something with a bit more security. But, then a hub really doesn't make sense unless you have some kind of improved/upgraded cross-town service along Grand.

Anyway, what's the use for the renovated theater?

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by LMich

Yeah, I'd either posted that here or in the Detroit mass transit thread. I believe there are three different alignments with two of them taking the line off Woodward through much of lower Midtown. I really can't see them taking it off Woodward if only because of visibility of the service even though it may make more sense.

I think the problem with all of this (particularly the streetcar ending around Grand) is that you kind of facilitate having to build a new physical hub of sorts somewhere in the area if you want to make it easy to change modes. I guess you could always simply combine a bus and streetcar stop near Woodward/Grand, but were I transfering modes, I'd want something with a bit more security. But, then a hub really doesn't make sense unless you have some kind of improved/upgraded cross-town service along Grand.

Weird. I really thought this thing was going to end at some intermodal bus/train station on the Amtrak site. Now I'm seeing it is going to Grand.

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by LMich

Anyway, what's the use for the renovated theater?

Live music venue. They already have two shows coming up.

http://www.thegardentheaterdetroit.com/

[hudkina]

Originally Posted by LMich

I think the problem with all of this (particularly the streetcar ending around Grand) is that you kind of facilitate having to build a new physical hub of sorts somewhere in the area if you want to make it easy to change modes.

Wasn't the plan all along to have a major intermodal station built on the lot bounded by Woodward, Amsterdam, Cass, and the tracks? It would connect Amtrak, commuter rail, the streetcar, buses, and if BRT is built north of Grand that as well.

[LMich]

The DDA has hired Parsons Brinckerhoff to study the possible removal of I-375, downtown:

Jarrad Henderson | Detroit Free Press

Consultant hired to study possible removal, rebuilding of I-375

By John Gallagher | Detroit Free Press

December 11, 2013

The Detroit Downtown Development Authority voted today to hire Parsons Brinckerhoff, a traffic and planning consultant, to conduct a study on the future of the I-375 corridor.

As recently reported in the Free Press, the DDA and the Michigan Department of Transportation are mulling what to do with the mile-long I-375 as the freeway nears the end of its useful life. With extensive repairs looming, the authorities will decide whether to rebuild I-375 as is or remake the corridor as a surface street to enhance the pedestrian access of the neighborhood on Detroit’s near-east side.

Parsons Brinckerhoff will be paid up to $372,691 for its work and will use the architectural firm SmithGroup JJR as a subcontractor. The study will involve consulting with major downtown employers including General Motors and Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan as well as the Detroit Riverfront Conservancy and the public. The study is expected to be finished around mid-2014.

Money to pay for the study is coming mostly from MDOT but GM, Blue Cross, the Community Foundation for Southeast Michigan, the Kresge Foundation, DTE Energy, Ford Field and other donors will also help underwrite the planning process.

...

Glad to see something keep on schedule, for once.

Ditch the ditch!

[animatedmartian]

Midtown Kicks Off 2014 With Huge Cass Plaza Restoration

Cass Corridor Neighborhood Development Corporation will begin historic renovations on their Cass Plaza project at the first of the year. 3550 Cass and 149 Davenport will be restored to 47 units of affordable rental housing. The units are expected to be completed in the first quarter of 2015 and one of the buildings will include a coffee shop on the first floor.

3550 Cass


149 Davenport










http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2...estoration.php

[animatedmartian]

Big announcement coming on multi-million dollar hockey, entertainment development in Detroit

DETROIT, Mich. (WXYZ) - 7 Action News found out that a big announcement will be made Friday afternoon and it’s something that could make a big impact in Detroit.

We're hearing an announcement regarding the new hockey arena will come during a Downtown Development Authority meeting scheduled for 4:15 p.m. at the Guardian Building.

Read more: http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/...#ixzz2nNWMk8vn

[subterranean]

The Davenport looks awesome! Really wish they were keeping the fire escapes, though.

[animatedmartian]

It's actually unusual in Detroit for such a short building to have fire escapes like that. This supposedly used to be a building for upper-class residents so I guess their safety was priority.

[mousquet]

What do you guys think about this?

Originally Posted by clickondetroit.com

Dec 09 2013

Regional group OKs $2.3B plan to widen I-94, I-75
Plans to add lanes to I-94 north of downtown Detroit and I-75

DETROIT - A consortium of southeastern Michigan governments has endorsed a $2.3 billion plan to widen two stretches of Interstates 75 and 94 serving Detroit and its suburbs.

The commission of the Southeast Michigan Council of Governments voted 24-7 Friday to proceed with plans to add lanes to I-94 north of downtown Detroit and I-75 in the city's northern suburbs.

Supporters say the work is needed to loosen traffic bottlenecks, while opponents say it would damage neighborhoods through which the highways travel.

Michigan Department of Transportation spokesman Rob Morosi tells MLive DOT com the earliest work would begin no sooner than 2016 on I-75 and 2018 on I-94.

I-94 would get extra lanes between Conner and I096, while I-75 would get them from Eight Mile Road to Michigan 59.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/r...c/-/index.html

Is it dangerous like anti-urban, a waste of public money or anything wrong? $2.3 bi sure could fund an expanded LRT.

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by mousquet

What do you guys think about this?

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/r...c/-/index.html

Is it dangerous like anti-urban, a waste of public money or anything wrong? $2.3 bi sure could fund an expanded LRT.

Shortsighted, dumb, and unnecessary. For a slightly more positive outlook on the region's transportation issues, here's a blog post about the Regional Transit Authority from the Michigan Suburbs Alliance's communications director:

http://www.metromodemedia.com/featur...berts0326.aspx

Guest Blogger: Hayley Roberts

Hayley Roberts | Thursday, December 12, 2013
Metro Mode Media

Almost a year ago, Gov. Snyder signed into existence a Regional Transit Authority for metro Detroit. About six months later, the Southeast Michigan Council of Governments voted to forge ahead with billions of dollars of spending on outdated, illogical highway expansion projects, while the RTA looks like it will be closing out the year without yet having a long-term funding stream. Based on these two high-profile occasions, it would be easy to declare 2013 more of a mixed bag than a banner year for metro Detroit transportation. But it would be wrong.

Over the past year, metro Detroiters worked together, spoke in unison and ultimately changed the conversation around transportation—and it was remarkable. As a result, the RTA is now kicking into gear, the debate over spending billions to expand highways is, well, a debate, and the region is poised to start thinking differently about how we invest in our future.
...

[animatedmartian]

The problem is that these freeway projects were decades in planning and LRT had only been proposed in the last several years, if that. It seemed pretty unlikely that MDOT was going to stop or change these plans since they were pretty much already in motion (funding, studies, planning, etc). By comparison, LRT was still a pie-in-the-sky idea that, even now, doesn't really seem fleshed out yet.

Although it would have been nice to divert funds from the freeways to transit, it's just simply too late in the game. Detroit's saving grace is the possible removal of 375 since that is pretty much in the early stages of planning.

Had LRT been proposed in Detroit maybe 15 or 20 years ago, we surely would have had it by now or at the very least, had very large support for it. But of course, things were even more politically unfavorable then than they are now so this is the outcome.

In the end, this is still a pretty autocentric metropolitan area and transit still has a long way to go before it's a normal mode of transportation. Hopefully in the future, transit will get this type of funding, but today is not yet that day and I wouldn't get upset over what can't be changed.

Btw, here's videos on each project from MDOT.

• Video Link

• Video Link

[animatedmartian]

However, the article on clickondetroit does say that the I-94 constuction won't start until 2018, so maybe it's possible that the plan would be altered in someway within the next 4 years, but either way I see still think it's unlikely funding would shift, at least in great amounts.

[animatedmartian]

Groundbreaking set for Midtown building to house Lawrence Tech design center
By Chad Halcom. December 13, 2013



Midtown Detroit will break ground next week on a three-story, $7 million building at the corner of Woodward Avenue and Willis Street that will house a new Lawrence Technological University design center.

The Southfield-based university will house its new Detroit Center for Design + Technology, which will consolidate three Detroit-based programs of Lawrence Tech’s College of Architecture and Design in 14,000 square feet of the 30,000 square foot building. The groundbreaking is planned for Wednesday.

Relocating into the Woodward and Willis building will be LTU’s Detroit Studio, established by Associate Professor Joongsub Kim in 1999 and provides design support for neighborhood and community-based projects in Detroit, along with urban design studio DetroitSHOP, from the Federal Reserve Building in Detroit, and Studio Couture, a storefront exhibit space on Woodward Avenue.

Amy Deines, associate dean of the College of Architecture and Design and associate director of the new Detroit Center for Design + Technology, and Midtown Detroit Executive Director Sue Mosey said construction should get underway in a few weeks and the university is expected to occupy the building by October.

Other building occupants will include Ann Arbor-based Quinn Evans Architects Inc., the project architect that is expected to relocate a Detroit satellite office, as well as Invest Detroit, which manages $110 million in several investment funds and tax credits, as well as a possible restaurant tenant that is still finalizing negotiations with Midtown Detroit, Deines said.

...

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...-lawrence-tech

Ironic that a school for architecture and design would have such a plain looking building. What's more surprising is that this won't really have any mixed-uses. It's pretty much an auxiliary building for the school.

Sucks for that McDonalds though. Guess they'll have to adopt a more urban design if they want to retain visibility.