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  #321  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2021, 3:48 AM
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The westernmost point of Africa (Dakar, Senegal) is closer to Tegucigalpa, Honduras and Svalbard, Norway than it is to the easternmost point of Africa
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You guys are laughing now but Jacksonville will soon assume its rightful place as the largest and most important city on Earth.

I heard the UN is moving its HQ there. The eiffel tower is moving there soon as well. Elon Musk even decided he didnt want to go to mars anymore after visiting.
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  #322  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2021, 6:35 PM
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when i was a kid i think i thought there was just one big city in ohio...cincinnati on the lake, wkrp and all that...like a smaller chicago with the reds, pete rose, the indians (?), old small deco skyscrapers.



i was a national league kid so american league cities didnt exist unless there was a world series.
That's how I was with Chicago when I was a kid. I just thought it was its own area because no one ever talked about Illinois - it was always Chicago. My dad is from Chicago, so, his mom and her family lived out there and that's all I heard growing up, "oh your grandma is coming in from Chicago..." "your dad is going out to Chicago to visit his mom..."

It wasn't like my aunt, who lived in Texas (Houston to be exact). That I knew - Texas was Texas and she lived in a city in Texas because no one ever just mentioned the city. Come to think of it, I think it was the same way with my grandma's sisters and brother who lived in California (two of her siblings lived in LA and her younger sister in the Bay Area). It was always California for them too.

It wasn't until I was a bit older I realized Chicago was actually in Illinois.
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  #323  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2021, 9:51 PM
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This is one that I discovered yesterday, but parts of Florida are west of parts of Chicago.
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  #324  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2021, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SFBruin View Post
This is one that I discovered yesterday, but parts of Florida are west of parts of Chicago.
Similarly, Nassau, Bahamas, is the same distance west as Rochester, NY.
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  #325  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2021, 3:26 PM
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That's how I was with Chicago when I was a kid. I just thought it was its own area because no one ever talked about Illinois - it was always Chicago. My dad is from Chicago, so, his mom and her family lived out there and that's all I heard growing up, "oh your grandma is coming in from Chicago..." "your dad is going out to Chicago to visit his mom..."

It wasn't like my aunt, who lived in Texas (Houston to be exact). That I knew - Texas was Texas and she lived in a city in Texas because no one ever just mentioned the city. Come to think of it, I think it was the same way with my grandma's sisters and brother who lived in California (two of her siblings lived in LA and her younger sister in the Bay Area). It was always California for them too.

It wasn't until I was a bit older I realized Chicago was actually in Illinois.
i think the biggest reason for that is because illinois has a profoundly weak brand, and on a relative basis, chicago's brand is quite strong by comparison.

the big california and texas cities certainly have very strong brands too, but they're in states that also have very powerful brands as well.

NYC and NYS might have developed a similar chicago/illinois thing except for the fact that they share the same damn name.



i'm trying to think of another city/state pair with as large of a branding chasm as chicago and illinois.

perhaps atlanta and georgia? though i think georgia's brand is much stronger than illinois'.

and DC is a weird case because, technically, it's not even in a state, but DC is probably a stronger brand than either maryland or virginia.
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  #326  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2021, 3:36 PM
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i think the biggest reason for that is because illinois has a profoundly weak brand, and on a relative basis, chicago's brand is quite strong by comparison.

the big california and texas cities certainly have very strong brands too, but they're in states that also have very powerful brands as well.

NYC and NYS might have developed a similar chicago/illinois thing except for the fact that they share the same damn name.



i'm trying to think of another city/state pair with as large of a branding chasm as chicago and illinois.

perhaps atlanta and georgia? though i think georgia's brand is much stronger than illinois'.

and DC is a weird case because, technically, it's not even in a state, but DC is probably a stronger brand than either maryland or virginia.
Timbuktu? I bet most people don't know what country that's in (and it's not an important place anymore...)
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  #327  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2021, 6:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
i think the biggest reason for that is because illinois has a profoundly weak brand, and on a relative basis, chicago's brand is quite strong by comparison.

the big california and texas cities certainly have very strong brands too, but they're in states that also have very powerful brands as well.

NYC and NYS might have developed a similar chicago/illinois thing except for the fact that they share the same damn name.



i'm trying to think of another city/state pair with as large of a branding chasm as chicago and illinois.

perhaps atlanta and georgia? though i think georgia's brand is much stronger than illinois'.

and DC is a weird case because, technically, it's not even in a state, but DC is probably a stronger brand than either maryland or virginia.
NYS is one state with two brands; upstate and downstate (the city) and the state does a good job pushing its split personality.
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  #328  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2021, 6:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
i think the biggest reason for that is because illinois has a profoundly weak brand, and on a relative basis, chicago's brand is quite strong by comparison.

the big california and texas cities certainly have very strong brands too, but they're in states that also have very powerful brands as well.

NYC and NYS might have developed a similar chicago/illinois thing except for the fact that they share the same damn name.



i'm trying to think of another city/state pair with as large of a branding chasm as chicago and illinois.

perhaps atlanta and georgia? though i think georgia's brand is much stronger than illinois'.

and DC is a weird case because, technically, it's not even in a state, but DC is probably a stronger brand than either maryland or virginia.
Detroit and Michigan definitely have completely different brands. As we know, Detroit's brand was much more negative than Michigan's for quite a while, but that started to change over the past decade. Unlike people that live in the Chicago area, though, suburban Detroiters began to identify as being from "Michigan" rather than the Detroit area, but this seems fairly new to me. To this day it sounds very phony when I hear it.
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  #329  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2021, 1:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
i'm trying to think of another city/state pair with as large of a branding chasm as chicago and illinois.
Seattle and Washington?
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  #330  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2021, 2:56 AM
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New York (city) and New York (state). One is the world capital and richest city, the other is dilapidated and poor.
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  #331  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2021, 2:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
New York (city) and New York (state). One is the world capital and richest city, the other is dilapidated and poor.
It's really more upstate NY than New York State. Almost 70% of NYS lives in the NY Metro area.

From downstate, the rest of NYS doesn't have the Rust Belt perception that is often attributed to the rest of the Great Lakes region. Upstate is thought of as the place to go skiing, camping, or to college. You'll almost never hear someone here call Buffalo the "Rust Belt".
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  #332  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2021, 3:06 PM
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New York (city) and New York (state). One is the world capital and richest city, the other is dilapidated and poor.
when i was talking about the branding chasm between chicago and illinois, i wasn't speaking about whether the respective brands were positive or negative, just how "strong" the brands are (ie. the amount of space they occupy in our society's collective consciousness).

people legitimately forget/don't know what state chicago is in sometimes because chicago's brand has so much more weight than illinois', and utterly swamps it.

NYC and NYS don't really have that same issue because, to a large degree, they share their brands by sharing the same name. no one has ever forgotten/not realized what state NYC is in.
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  #333  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2021, 3:51 PM
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It's really more upstate NY than New York State. Almost 70% of NYS lives in the NY Metro area.

From downstate, the rest of NYS doesn't have the Rust Belt perception that is often attributed to the rest of the Great Lakes region. Upstate is thought of as the place to go skiing, camping, or to college. You'll almost never hear someone here call Buffalo the "Rust Belt".
From a NYC perspective, I think there are two "Upstates". The more familiar one is the weekend/second home/vacationland. Hudson Valley, Catskills, Adirondacks, Finger Lakes, etc. These areas are stereotyped as green, hilly, idyllic, waterfalls, hiking, etc.

Then there's the Rust Belt Upstate. The stereotype is obviously depressed, dilapidated, empty factories, etc. Buffalo, probably unfairly, is the most prominent example. But Buffalo is like seven hours from NYC, further than Richmond, VA. It's really freaking far out of the frame of reference. There are smaller Rust Belt towns much closer to NYC, but they're mostly ignored or successfully transformed into second home communities.

From a city perspective, when you talk about Upstate or NY State, the frame of reference is almost always the former.
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  #334  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2021, 4:02 PM
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Detroit and Michigan definitely have completely different brands. As we know, Detroit's brand was much more negative than Michigan's for quite a while, but that started to change over the past decade. Unlike people that live in the Chicago area, though, suburban Detroiters began to identify as being from "Michigan" rather than the Detroit area, but this seems fairly new to me. To this day it sounds very phony when I hear it.
yeah, detroit might have a better known brand than michigan, but i'd still put michigan's brand overall much higher than illinois'.

out of american's top 10 largest states, i'd say that illinois easily has the weakest brand. anyone disagree?



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Originally Posted by craigs View Post
Seattle and Washington?
yeah, that's another good one too.

i'd agree that, brand-wise, seattle > washington state these days.

the fact that washington state has to be qualified with "state" in the first place to differentiate it from DC is a major dent in the brand by itself.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Apr 6, 2021 at 4:14 PM.
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  #335  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2021, 4:43 PM
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out of american's top 10 largest states, i'd say that illinois easily has the weakest brand. anyone disagree?
Because of Chicago, I'd still rank Illinois' brand above Ohio's and Michigan's.
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  #336  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2021, 4:55 PM
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Non-Chicagoland Illinois has a very limited brand. Endless corn fields, maybe? Lincoln?
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  #337  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2021, 4:57 PM
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Because of Chicago, I'd still rank Illinois' brand above Ohio's and Michigan's.
ohio might be a wash, but i'd put michigan above illinois for sure.
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  #338  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2021, 5:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
From a NYC perspective, I think there are two "Upstates". The more familiar one is the weekend/second home/vacationland. Hudson Valley, Catskills, Adirondacks, Finger Lakes, etc. These areas are stereotyped as green, hilly, idyllic, waterfalls, hiking, etc.
That's because you guys vacation up there. You're not taking a weekend getaway in Schenectady but some quaint town like Saratoga centered around tourism. My hometown is also set in a beautiful area; green, hilly, idyllic, waterfalls, hiking, etc but a total rust bucket.
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  #339  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2021, 5:36 PM
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ohio might be a wash, but i'd put michigan above illinois for sure.
Definitely. Michigan has the whole "Pure Michigan" campaign that was very effective and far reaching. Everyone I know from the Detroit area (and the one person I know from Grand Rapids) says they're from Michigan when asked where they're from. Never Detroit, the Detroit area...always just Michigan.

I think this is because Michigan has a pretty nice brand, especially for a midwestern state. It makes people think of lakes and forests, maybe the University of Michigan, which is pretty widely respected and appreciated. It's also no doubt due to the negative brand of Detroit. I know this is probably changing, but much of my extended family that lives in Metro Detroit actually hated the city and would talk about it like it was hell. Other than rooting for the Detroit sports teams, I think they really don't see themselves as part of "Detroit" at all. Or they don't want to see themselves as part of it, I guess.
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  #340  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2021, 5:37 PM
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Michigan has the university.
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