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  #15261  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2021, 8:19 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
^ Much as I hate to say it, I think CREATE might need to go back to the drawing board in some respects with CP's purchase of KCS. Now instead of being on the fringes of CP's freight network, Chicago will be the linchpin of that network. Planners should study how train traffic is likely to shift and what improvements need to be made. CP's routes through the Chicago area include both Milwaukee District Metra lines, which also host the Hiawatha/Empire Builder and the proposed Rockford service on the Amtrak side.

Also, they need to dust off the South-of-the-Lake project to build a dedicated passenger corridor between Englewood and Porter, IN through the tangle of railroads on the South Side and in NW Indiana. Huge upside for all Amtrak service to the east. Unfortunately Michigan led the charge 8 years ago under Gov and noted railfan Rick Snyder, I dunno if Gretchen "Fix the Damn Roads" Whitmer is quite so supportive of rail.
Arguments for a CREATE Phase 2 I think. There are a lot of projects from the first plan just still waiting for money.
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  #15262  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2021, 8:46 PM
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ardecila ardecila is offline
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CN's purchase of EJE resulted in deletions from CREATE rather than added projects. If the same is true for CP+KCS then we could end up spending billions adding capacity where we don't need it.
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  #15263  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2021, 9:20 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
CN's purchase of EJE resulted in deletions from CREATE rather than added projects. If the same is true for CP+KCS then we could end up spending billions adding capacity where we don't need it.
Yes because the EJ&E let CN circumvent a lot of Chicago area congestion. I don't think CP buying the KCS solves a similar Chicago problem that would negate the need for the planned improvements.
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  #15264  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2021, 10:56 PM
Kngkyle Kngkyle is offline
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with 42 stations still in need of the necessary elevators and escalators to come into compliance at an estimated cost of $2.1 billion
Huh? 42 elevators cost $2.1 billion?

I didn't see extending the brown line to connect to the O'Hare blue line on the list. That seems like a no brainer.
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  #15265  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2021, 11:46 PM
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Randomguy34 Randomguy34 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kngkyle View Post
I didn't see extending the brown line to connect to the O'Hare blue line on the list. That seems like a no brainer.
The infrastructure bill is intended for shovel-ready projects. Hopefully the CTA will start studying a Brown Line extension once other projects are finished
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  #15266  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2021, 6:12 AM
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Mister Uptempo Mister Uptempo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
^ Much as I hate to say it, I think CREATE might need to go back to the drawing board in some respects with CP's purchase of KCS. Now instead of being on the fringes of CP's freight network, Chicago will be the linchpin of that network. Planners should study how train traffic is likely to shift and what improvements need to be made. CP's routes through the Chicago area include both Milwaukee District Metra lines, which also host the Hiawatha/Empire Builder and the proposed Rockford service on the Amtrak side.

Also, they need to dust off the South-of-the-Lake project to build a dedicated passenger corridor between Englewood and Porter, IN through the tangle of railroads on the South Side and in NW Indiana. Huge upside for all Amtrak service to the east. Unfortunately Michigan led the charge 8 years ago under Gov and noted railfan Rick Snyder, I dunno if Gretchen "Fix the Damn Roads" Whitmer is quite so supportive of rail.
What to make of this?

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CP and KCS interchange and operate an existing shared facility in Kansas City, Mo., which is the one point where they connect. This transaction will alleviate the need for a time consuming and expensive interchange, improving efficiency and reducing transit times and costs. The combination also will allow some traffic between KCS-served points and the Upper Midwest and Western Canada to bypass Chicago via the CP route through Iowa. This will improve service and has the potential to contribute to the reduction of rail traffic, fuel burn, and emissions in Chicago, an important hub city.
This isn't the first time CP has considered bypassing Chicago. In 2016, when CP attempted to acquire Norfolk Southern, the railroad wrote this about CREATE-

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There is neither an easy nor inexpensive fix. With so many stakeholders, it is difficult to gain alignment and reach consensus on improvement initiatives, especially since most solutions are costly, complicated and impact different stakeholders in different ways. Despite best efforts to address congestion in Chicago, programs such as the Chicago Region Environmental and Transportation Efficiency Program (CREATE), have fallen far short. Among other problems, CREATE lacks funding.[8] Even fully funded, CREATE on its own cannot do enough to avert future gridlock. Much more must be done.
The passage above is from a white paper written by CP entitled The Opportunity to Alleviate Congestion in Chicago, in which CP argued that combining CP's and NS's assets would allow significant freight traffic to bypass the city.

I agree with you about South of the Lake. When the Amtrak 2035 map came out a few days ago, and it referred to "enhanced" routes, my first thought was South of the Lake would enhance so many routes that reviving it seems like a no-brainer.
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  #15267  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2021, 7:21 PM
VKChaz VKChaz is offline
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Originally Posted by Kngkyle View Post
Huh? 42 elevators cost $2.1 billion?

I didn't see extending the brown line to connect to the O'Hare blue line on the list. That seems like a no brainer.
Of course, even if there was money to expand the system, money is needed to then operate that system.

---

I don't know if anything can be done to speed up the Metra coaches. But that is a win in terms of maintenance cost, efficiency and experience that arguably shouldn't take so many years.

I also don't know if we are doing enough to get people to job centers like Bedford Park. It isn't flashy, but even just some kind of improved bus service and coverage for overnight shifts

Last edited by VKChaz; Apr 3, 2021 at 7:50 PM.
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  #15268  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2021, 7:27 PM
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Randomguy34 Randomguy34 is offline
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From the HSR thread, the funding breakdown for rapid transit will be:
-$55b state of good repair
-$25b expansion
-$5b for ADA accessibility

with an additional:
-$25b electric transit
-$20b electric school buses
-$44b transformative projects (rail, highway, airports, etc.)

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Originally Posted by numble View Post
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