Portage and Main re-opening 2016

[pacman]

The reopening will have a greater effect symbolically than anything else. I honestly don't think the traffic disaster will happen and I also don't think we'll see dozens of CRU's and restaurant patios spring open because office and other downtown workers miraculously flock to that corner with the barriers gone. Realistically speaking, as of right now, the intersection looks aged and unwelcoming underground and deteriorated badly at grade so whether or not it gets opened up there needs to be some investment at that location. If the investment needs to happen regardless, then we might as well go all the way and open things up at the same time because symbolically there are more advantages than the only negative which is the effect on traffic and that effect is greatly exaggerated.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by pacman

The reopening will have a greater effect symbolically than anything else. I honestly don't think the traffic disaster will happen and I also don't think we'll see dozens of CRU's and restaurant patios spring open because office and other downtown workers miraculously flock to that corner with the barriers gone. Realistically speaking, as of right now, the intersection looks aged and unwelcoming underground and deteriorated badly at grade so whether or not it gets opened up there needs to be some investment at that location. If the investment needs to happen regardless, then we might as well go all the way and open things up at the same time because symbolically there are more advantages than the only negative which is the effect on traffic and that effect is greatly exaggerated.

At this point, not dozens, but once the intersection is opened, and 300 Main is finished, we will hopefully see at least a few.

[pacman]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

At this point, not dozens, but once the intersection is opened, and 300 Main is finished, we will hopefully see at least a few.

Agree with that. I know the idea is to have a snowball effect and eventually (years later) it will be a hub of activity with action everywhere. I'm just worried that when there's only a smattering of activity for the first few years people will go "I told you so, what a waste". If people are realistic then they'll see that the effect is more symbolic than anything and give up trying to go to extremes to prove their point either way.

[oftheMoon]

Originally Posted by pacman

The reopening will have a greater effect symbolically than anything else. I honestly don't think the traffic disaster will happen and I also don't think we'll see dozens of CRU's and restaurant patios spring open because office and other downtown workers miraculously flock to that corner with the barriers gone. Realistically speaking, as of right now, the intersection looks aged and unwelcoming underground and deteriorated badly at grade so whether or not it gets opened up there needs to be some investment at that location. If the investment needs to happen regardless, then we might as well go all the way and open things up at the same time because symbolically there are more advantages than the only negative which is the effect on traffic and that effect is greatly exaggerated.

People need to go sit for a bit on one of the benches, tables & chairs or whatever they have on that corner on a sunny afternoon and take the intersection in. The vast majority of people have just passed it by. But when you stop, sit and look around, it really is quite incredible.

Take that to tomorrow when it's open and some redevelopment is done. I would love to sit and a patio there sipping a bevy on a warm summer night. It would be one of the most unique patio experiences this city has. And people would flock to it without question.

[Urban recluse]

Totally. Also, I could see many people driving through to get to the nasty suburbs, seeing others enjoying patios, etc, and decide to join the fray.

[pacman]

Originally Posted by oftheMoon

People need to go sit for a bit on one of the benches, tables & chairs or whatever they have on that corner on a sunny afternoon and take the intersection in. The vast majority of people have just passed it by. But when you stop, sit and look around, it really is quite incredible.

Take that to tomorrow when it's open and some redevelopment is done. I would love to sit and a patio there sipping a bevy on a warm summer night. It would be one of the most unique patio experiences this city has. And people would flock to it without question.

Agreed about sitting out there on a patio, I would definitely be one of those (assuming they figure something out about the wind). I know that Hy's is upscale and patios are typically not something for a restaurant of that level but I've always wondered about them opening up a patio on either side of the building even if the intersection was never opened, seems to me with their location it would be perfect and is not dependent on the intersection reopening.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.89573...7i13312!8i6656

[robertocarlos]

The building owners are not for sure in favour of opening Main and Portage. They just aren't going to get in the way of the project.

[robertocarlos]

Originally Posted by oftheMoon

People need to go sit for a bit on one of the benches, tables & chairs or whatever they have on that corner on a sunny afternoon and take the intersection in. The vast majority of people have just passed it by. But when you stop, sit and look around, it really is quite incredible.

Take that to tomorrow when it's open and some redevelopment is done. I would love to sit and a patio there sipping a bevy on a warm summer night. It would be one of the most unique patio experiences this city has. And people would flock to it without question.

I've done that many times and it is a wonderful intersection. Just watching the world pass by in their cars.

[robertocarlos]

Originally Posted by cheswick

Agreed! But it's not really a novel idea. All the worlds greatest cities have downtown intersections restricted to cars only. Free flowing traffic creates vibrant livable cities.

They have to keep flowing because there is no place to park*.

*for free.

Did you forget the /S.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by robertocarlos

The building owners are not for sure in favour of opening Main and Portage. They just aren't going to get in the way of the project.

According to the press, they are "now in support".

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Some like us get it a small vocal minority that want P & M opened for selfish reasons don't!

Selfish?

Saving time (like, one minute) on a commute seems more selfish. The problem with our city is that we think small. If there is a majority in favour of keeping barriers up then it's out of misguidance, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by pacman

The reopening will have a greater effect symbolically than anything else. I honestly don't think the traffic disaster will happen and I also don't think we'll see dozens of CRU's and restaurant patios spring open because office and other downtown workers miraculously flock to that corner with the barriers gone. Realistically speaking, as of right now, the intersection looks aged and unwelcoming underground and deteriorated badly at grade so whether or not it gets opened up there needs to be some investment at that location. If the investment needs to happen regardless, then we might as well go all the way and open things up at the same time because symbolically there are more advantages than the only negative which is the effect on traffic and that effect is greatly exaggerated.

It's simply a bottleneck towards a vibrant grade level community. It may not be a lot of pent up momentum, but we simply can't get to where we're going, a vibrant downtown, with arbitrary limiters in place. However small the steps are, they are steps in the right direction, but that's also why I wish the city would invest sunstantially into making this a destination rather than just a crossing.

Originally Posted by robertocarlos

The building owners are not for sure in favour of opening Main and Portage. They just aren't going to get in the way of the project.

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

According to the press, they are "now in support".

Winnipeg skewers landlords or developers when they "protect their interests", so it wouldn't be wise to get in the way. However, those with long term interest in the city's downtown vitality, in particular Artis and Richardsons, would truly be in favour I'd imagine.

[rkspec]

To be honest, i'm in it for the hopes of revitalizing that intersection. This intersection deserves a times square themed facelift and i am excited IF that were the case.

But if the barriers came down and everything stayed the same then i'd take the stance of...meh.

*puts on flame suit*

[pacman]

Originally Posted by rkspec

To be honest, i'm in it for the hopes of revitalizing that intersection. This intersection deserves a times square themed facelift and i am excited IF that were the case.

But if the barriers came down and everything stayed the same then i'd take the stance of...meh.

*puts on flame suit*

I think we can all agree that knocking down the barriers and putting a fresh lift of asphalt will do nothing. There needs to be a bigger picture vision and guidance provided, but I don't think the City needs to unveil this gigantic master plan saying "this is what we will create, voila". Places like Times Square happen, they aren't created. What we need is a little vision/foresight to get the ball rolling, then let the people/developers take it from there. It becomes what it becomes.

[rkspec]

Originally Posted by pacman

What we need is a little vision/foresight to get the ball rolling, then let the people/developers take it from there. It becomes what it becomes.

I thought something would have been drawn up after they consulted with that guy from NYC.

[BubberMiley]

Originally Posted by pacman

I'm just worried that when there's only a smattering of activity for the first few years people will go "I told you so, what a waste".

Then you would just have to ask, "A waste of what? 40-year old concrete bunkers?"

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by pacman

I think we can all agree that knocking down the barriers and putting a fresh lift of asphalt will do nothing. There needs to be a bigger picture vision and guidance provided, but I don't think the City needs to unveil this gigantic master plan saying "this is what we will create, voila". Places like Times Square happen, they aren't created. What we need is a little vision/foresight to get the ball rolling, then let the people/developers take it from there. It becomes what it becomes.

Pee Wee Bowman and the gutless city council don't even have the balls to release the traffic study on the consequences of reopening P & M to pedestrians.

Opening P & M would have the effect of allowing 16 people to cross the intersection above ground and would give four more panhandling locations for druggies that is about all folks.

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Pee Wee Bowman and the gutless city council don't even have the balls to release the traffic study on the consequences of reopening P & M to pedestrians.

Opening P & M would have the effect of allowing 16 people to cross the intersection above ground and would give four more panhandling locations for druggies that is about all folks.

You need to move to a small town. Big city living clearly isn't for you.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Pinus

You need to move to a small town. Big city living clearly isn't for you.

Small towns generally let people wander all over their streets. Big cities have barricades and restrictions on all kinds of things. That's why people use images of clusters of traffic signs saying NO THIS and NO THAT to symbolize a place like Manhattan but not so much to symbolize, say, Neepawa or Plum Coulee. The P&M barricades are really just about the most big-city thing Winnipeg has ... even a New Yorker would have to be impressed.

[Flavelle103]

Originally Posted by Andy6

The P&M barricades are really just about the most big-city thing Winnipeg has ... even a New Yorker would have to be impressed.

You mean the New York that gives pedestrians all kinds of freedom in Times Square?

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Flavelle103

You mean the New York that gives pedestrians all kinds of freedom in Times Square?

No, a different one.