Black-trimmed homes, tiny libraries and other signs of gentrification

[Six Corners]

I'm curious if other cities have many examples of something that has been done here and there in St. Louis where someone will take a small, inexpensive old home, typically a shotgun style home, and build a huge addition on to it, particularly in a modern architectural style and often using adjacent lots:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/MZkbxBd4FxWe58dX6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/xSWKdTaiqbkuXcYu8
https://maps.app.goo.gl/AKLpZbmjqnmHLA327

IIRC there are historic tax credits that can be used to do these. But thinking about other places I've lived or places I've traveled to extensively, I can't come up with any other great examples of where this has occurred.

[Emprise du Lion]

Originally Posted by Six Corners

Agreed. And there's one builder who does these especially poorly. https://maps.app.goo.gl/zZWm4taYZYwDCQgt9
They don't even bother with the correct style of brick on most of houses.

The way I immediately knew this was The Hill. The next phase of development, closer to Rigazzi's, is a bit better at least, but still not ideal:
https://www.zillow.com/community/la-...30019471_plid/

That said, I'll still take those over the McMansions being built on multiple city lots also on The Hill.

Originally Posted by Crawford

These look like public housing. The typical stuff cities built in the 1990's after they demolished public housing towers.

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

But to Crawford's point, it very well might be government housing, so perhaps not apples to apples.

They're not. They all sold 2-3 years back in the $400/$500k price range. It was a new development on The Hill on a formerly industrial site. I linked to an example of the newer developments above. There's also a large apartment building with a courtyard pool in the center of all of it:
https://www.apartments.com/moda-at-t...is-mo/4rrd5zk/

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Six Corners

I'm curious if other cities have many examples of something that has been done here and there in St. Louis where someone will take a small, inexpensive old home, typically a shotgun style home, and build a huge addition on to it, particularly in a modern architectural style and often using adjacent lots:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/MZkbxBd4FxWe58dX6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/xSWKdTaiqbkuXcYu8
https://maps.app.goo.gl/AKLpZbmjqnmHLA327

IIRC there are historic tax credits that can be used to do these. But thinking about other places I've lived or places I've traveled to extensively, I can't come up with any other great examples of where this has occurred.

Those are unusual, and I can't think of any examples quite like that in Chicago.

When we do see residential lots combined in places like Lincoln Park to build rich people mansions, the original structures are torn down so that the replacement building can exude maximum opulence.

What we do see a lot of though are bungalow pop-tops, where a second full story (not just a dormered attic) is built on top of an existing brick bungalow (sometimes with comically tragic results), usually with a rear addition if FAR allows, but those never spill onto adjacent lots.


chicago bungalow pop-tops:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9594...8192?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9594...8192?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9585...8192?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9576...6656?entry=ttu

[ColDayMan]

Originally Posted by Six Corners

I'm curious if other cities have many examples of something that has been done here and there in St. Louis where someone will take a small, inexpensive old home, typically a shotgun style home, and build a huge addition on to it, particularly in a modern architectural style and often using adjacent lots:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/MZkbxBd4FxWe58dX6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/xSWKdTaiqbkuXcYu8
https://maps.app.goo.gl/AKLpZbmjqnmHLA327

IIRC there are historic tax credits that can be used to do these. But thinking about other places I've lived or places I've traveled to extensively, I can't come up with any other great examples of where this has occurred.

Happens in Columbus all over. Some good, some bad, some hideous like below:

Good: https://maps.app.goo.gl/RYmNYvpYm5aPGMQ67
Bad: https://maps.app.goo.gl/kJ8JW7BNQm3wp9fg7
Hideous: https://maps.app.goo.gl/P7ebzX4ZQVrJfKKu5

[FromSD]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Those are unusual, and I can't think of any examples quite like that in Chicago.

When we do see residential lots combined in places like Lincoln Park to build rich people mansions, the original structures are torn down so that the replacement building can exude maximum opulence.

What we do see a lot of though are bungalow pop-tops, where a second full story (not just a dormered attic) is built on top of an existing brick bungalow (sometimes with comically tragic results), usually with a rear addition if FAR allows, but those never spill onto adjacent lots.

None of those examples seem particularly bad to me. We get a lot worse than that in San Diego. For example, the owner of a post-war ranch house adds a second story on top of the attached garage; or builds an attached two story addition to the back of a one-story house. Both of these additions make for a very imbalanced looking house from the viewpoint of the street. I expect that we'll see more of these kinds of add-ons now that both the state and city are encouraging the construction of ADUs in single family neighborhoods.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by FromSD

None of those examples seem particularly bad to me.

This one fully qualifies as "god-awful architectural abortion" in my eyes.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9576...6656?entry=ttu


Look at the three handsome vintage Chicago bungalows to the right of the one above. That's what that one used too look like too.

Whoops......

[dave8721]

I saw this one when going out to the in-laws, its got it all. Black trim and random square cube added on to the house complete with exterior staircase (and as is typical in a Miami working class neighborhood, fancy cars parked out front)
https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7445...8192?entry=ttu

[Crawford]

LOL. Driving a Maserati while living right on a truck arterial. Not a blade of grass. God bless America.

Do Latins in Miami keep their dogs on the roof, as per standard in much of Latin America? Those exterior stairways in Latin America are often functionally just to take the dog out.

[mhays]

Every yard is a god damn driveway. That's horrible.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Crawford

LOL. Driving a Maserati while living right on a truck arterial. Not a blade of grass. God bless America.

Do Latins in Miami keep their dogs on the roof, as per standard in much of Latin America? Those exterior stairways in Latin America are often functionally just to take the dog out.

Dogs on the roof?! I've never seen that in Brazil and I wasn't aware it was a thing anywhere for that matter. How does it work?

When I was a kid, dogs slept on their special houses on the backyard. Today, it's usually on their tutor's bedroom.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Yuri

Dogs on the roof?! I've never seen that in Brazil and I wasn't aware it was a thing anywhere for that matter. How does it work?

It's everywhere in Mexico, and I've seen it in Central America and Chile.

Usually the homes have flat roofs, and large yards are uncommon, so people put their dogs on the roof. There's usually an exterior stairway to the roof.

[strongbad635]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Those are unusual, and I can't think of any examples quite like that in Chicago.

When we do see residential lots combined in places like Lincoln Park to build rich people mansions, the original structures are torn down so that the replacement building can exude maximum opulence.

What we do see a lot of though are bungalow pop-tops, where a second full story (not just a dormered attic) is built on top of an existing brick bungalow (sometimes with comically tragic results), usually with a rear addition if FAR allows, but those never spill onto adjacent lots.


chicago bungalow pop-tops:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9594...8192?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9594...8192?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9585...8192?entry=ttu

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9576...6656?entry=ttu

These are actually quite well done! The materials, while inferior to the original brick, are still natural and give warmth to the street space. The windows are punched, the eaves are articulated, window frames differentiated, which signals human presence and activity as well as giving the surface needed depth. The proportions are excellent, keeping the buildings balanced. Even if they aren't perfectly symmetrical, the visual weight from side-to-side and top-to-bottom are kept within bounds of visual comfort. The discipline of front and back are preserved as well, so when you look at the home you can read where the humans ingress, egress, and pass by. The colors are soothing and resemble nature. These are all elements of placemaking that research shows can lower someone's mental stress levels when they're present in the built environment.

[strongbad635]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

This one fully qualifies as "god-awful architectural abortion" in my eyes.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9576...6656?entry=ttu


Look at the three handsome vintage Chicago bungalows to the right of the one above. That's what that one used too look like too.

Whoops......

Interestingly, that one is the worst of the bunch he shared. The front facade is too flat, the color is the least pleasant, and the windows aren't punched. Still not as bad as a glass/steel cube with some stupid geometric pattern on it, but a prime example of how good placemaking is a kit of parts. If even one or two tools in that kit are missing, ordinary people walking by will notice that something feels off, and their level of discomfort will rise.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Crawford

It's everywhere in Mexico, and I've seen it in Central America and Chile.

Usually the homes have flat roofs, and large yards are uncommon, so people put their dogs on the roof. There's usually an exterior stairway to the roof.

I had no idea. It's so bizarre. The dog keeps going up and down every time they need to bark at someone on the street?

[strongbad635]

Here's a great example of an uncomfortable, despotic building in Houston. They even tried to temper how awful it is by slapping some nature band-aids in front of it:

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.8056...8192?entry=ttu

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Yuri

I had no idea. It's so bizarre. The dog keeps going up and down every time they need to bark at someone on the street?

LOL, no, they bark at you from the roof. The roof is basically turned into a dog park. There is no front yard in Mexico, whether rich or poor, the front of the property is generally gated and Mexico doesn't really have apartment blocks like in Brazil (except a bit in Mexico City).

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Crawford

LOL, no, they bark at you from the roof.

That's an interesting view! If I go to Mexico, this will be on my must list.

Originally Posted by Crawford

The roof is basically turned into a dog park. There is no front yard in Mexico, whether rich or poor, and Mexico doesn't really have apartment blocks like in Brazil (except a bit in Mexico City).

Brazil obviously look very different from US suburbia and frontyards are small surrounded by walls or big gates. Here one street in Londrina: https://www.google.com/maps/@-23.320...8192?entry=ttu . During the day, dogs keep coming to frontyard to bark with passerbyers or motorbikes (they hate those). In this street is probably due boredom as pretty much no one walks there.

Regarding apartments, I live Downtown SP. It's 100% apartments and I guess half of them have dogs (although Downtown leans towards cats). To me it doesn't work: taking them out twice a day. Impossible. I have two wonderful cats. Take care of their litter box and that's it. No worries.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Crawford

LOL. Driving a Maserati while living right on a truck arterial. Not a blade of grass. God bless America.

Do Latins in Miami keep their dogs on the roof, as per standard in much of Latin America? Those exterior stairways in Latin America are often functionally just to take the dog out.

I've never seen a dog on the roof either, and I've been across a good chunk of Latin America lol. I haven't seen that much of Mexico, though.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by strongbad635

Interestingly, that one is the worst of the bunch he shared.

Well yeah, I didn't say that all bungalow pop-tops are horrendous.

But that one certainly qualifies.



Hire a fucking architect, people!

It's not really that hard to make a bungalow pop-top half-way decent.

But at a bare minimum you have to at least try.

Originally Posted by strongbad635

The discipline of front and back are preserved as well, so when you look at the home you can read where the humans ingress, egress, and pass by.

You can thank whoever it was that decided to run a service alley down the middle of damn near every block in the city of chicago. It created a very strong separation between the front of house/back of house realms.

Chicago's streets aren't mucked up by the more sordid realities of life like trash/recycling collection, car storage (and its inherent curb cuts, driveways, and garage doors), overhead utility lines, etc. All that shit happens out of sight in the alley in back.

[FromSD]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

This one fully qualifies as "god-awful architectural abortion" in my eyes.

Look at the three handsome vintage Chicago bungalows to the right of the one above. That's what that one used too look like too.

Whoops......

Yes, that was definitely the ugliest of the four. The worst part to me was the roof line--they went with a barely pitched hip roof. Maybe that saved them some money on roof joists, but that roofline just didn't fit well with the rest of the house. Other than that, I didn't find it that objectionable.