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  #21  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 3:22 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is online now
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Originally Posted by IluvATX View Post
Cusco, Peru is the oldest in the Americas. Over 3000 years continuously inhabited.

it looks like tlapacoya was the oldest city in the americas. it was located between mexico city and puebla. the ruins got bulldozed by a highway. the city dates from 7500bc, with people living there as far back as 9500-25000bc (there are wide disputes). also interesting is that the very first settlers around mexico city appeared caucasian/asian and looked like western europeans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._of_foundation
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  #22  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 3:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
it looks like tlapacoya was the oldest city in the americas. it was located between mexico city and puebla. the ruins got bulldozed by a highway. the city dates from 7500bc, with people living there as far back as 9500-25000bc (there are wide disputes). also interesting is that the very first settlers around mexico city appeared caucasian/asian and looked like western europeans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._of_foundation
There are some mysteries and evidence that give some credit to alternative human timelines.

Here's one: Humans in California 130,000 years ago.
https://www.nature.com/articles/natu...dium=affiliate
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  #23  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 4:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
There are some mysteries and evidence that give some credit to alternative human timelines.

Here's one: Humans in California 130,000 years ago.
https://www.nature.com/articles/natu...dium=affiliate
Not really. There were no human remains found at the California site, and scientific consensus still agrees that modern humans didn't migrate out of Africa until about 70,000 years ago.
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  #24  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 4:30 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Not really. There were no human remains found at the California site, and scientific consensus still agrees that modern humans didn't migrate out of Africa until about 70,000 years ago.
That consensus is an Out of Africa theory.

Another widely accepted OOA theory is that there were waves of H. Sapiens leaving the Horn of Africa starting as early as 270,000 years ago.

Again, both are theories, in addition to H. Sapiens leaving Africa, humanoid species were scattered all over the place from Asia to Europe, well over a million years ago. Modern man mixed with these humanoids and that's why you have Neanderthal in your DNA if you're European and you have Denisovan DNA if you're Asian.
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  #25  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 4:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
That consensus is an Out of Africa theory.

Another widely accepted OOA theory is that there were waves of H. Sapiens leaving the Horn of Africa starting as early as 270,000 years ago.

Again, both are theories, in addition to H. Sapiens leaving Africa, humanoid species were scattered all over the place from Asia to Europe, well over a million years ago. Modern man mixed with these humanoids and that's why you have Neanderthal in your DNA if you're European and you have Denisovan DNA if you're Asian.
Not all theories are equal.
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  #26  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 4:58 PM
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i wonder what the oldest fictional city is?



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  #27  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 5:34 PM
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Not all theories are equal.
You're offering nothing to the discussion. Why is that?
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  #28  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 5:37 PM
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I guess it depends on what you would define as a "city"

Some of the very most ancient cities we know of were little more than towns from our perspective but Id guess the first true "cities" as we would recognize them came about right at the end of the Neolithic revolution about 10,000-12,000 years ago in the Levant, Turkey and Egypt.

Im sure there are fairly permanent settlements that pre-dated this by several thousand years but its very hard for anything man made to last that long without being destroyed, recycled by other humans or just eroding away besides giant blocks of stone.

There are some more out their theories that human civilization might be far older than 12,000 (as we understand it) years or so but it is not widely accepted.

It does appear that there is some newer archaeological evidence that pushes the first urban areas back to 14,000 years but once again its very hard to be sure and its hard for people to conceive just how long ago some of these early early bronze/stone age peoples were. 14,000 years ago is 7x longer than the time that his elapsed since Caesar was murdered on the senate floor and today.

So the "evidence" that we really have is shockingly shockingly tiny. bits of bone and tools and barely recognizable stone foundations make up what we know of these cultures and its safe to assume that what we really know about them is probably wildly inaccurate besides the most basic details.
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  #29  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 5:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
First Briton from 10,000 years ago:
This just looks like a leather-faced middle-aged white surfer who's been out in the sun/surfing way too long. "Catch a waaaaave, duuuuude."
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  #30  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 5:45 PM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
This just looks like a leather-faced middle-aged white surfer who's been out in the sun/surfing way too long. "Catch a waaaaave, duuuuude."
Can somebody smarter than me explain how they know what the skin pigmant was?

Like I get that you can find things like hairs and reconstructed features based on the bones but how do they know how brown or not brown some 10000 year old person was?
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  #31  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 6:02 PM
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I don't care what you morons say.
You all know homo sapiens sapiens sapiens +++ is from France.
The rest of you is retarded nuts.
Bwaha.
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  #32  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 6:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
You're offering nothing to the discussion. Why is that?
I stated my position pretty clearly.
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  #33  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 6:16 PM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
This just looks like a leather-faced middle-aged white surfer who's been out in the sun/surfing way too long. "Catch a waaaaave, duuuuude."
Well he was found on an island! -- At least an island today. Cheddar man walked to Britain through Doggerland, back when it was all a part of the European continental landmass.

Speaking of climatic changes and human developments, isn't it an amazing coincidence that the oldest known human settlements and cities emerged at a time when the climate peaked in the post Ice Age - Holocene Period? It was much warmer 6,000 - 9,000 years ago, than it is today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_climatic_optimum
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  #34  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 6:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mousquet View Post
I don't care what you morons say.
You all know homo sapiens sapiens sapiens +++ is from France.
The rest of you is retarded nuts.
Bwaha.
Gauls and franks are the only true humans the rest of us are varying degrees of well trained apes. I agree
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  #35  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 7:02 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
I stated my position pretty clearly.
You both are right...at least according to Wikipedia. There was a wave 270,000 years ago but they largely died out and/or returned and it wasn't until the second wave 70,000 years ago humans began to successfully populate the world. Modern humans at least; H. neanderthalensis and H. erectus left earlier...
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  #36  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 7:16 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
You both are right...at least according to Wikipedia. There was a wave 270,000 years ago but they largely died out and/or returned and it wasn't until the second wave 70,000 years ago humans began to successfully populate the world. Modern humans at least; H. neanderthalensis and H. erectus left earlier...
Modern humans are actually a subspecies of homo sapiens. We are homo sapiens sapiens. All of the other homo sapiens groups died out or were overtaken by our subspecies through competition. All of the people alive today descended from a group of homo sapiens that first started to migrate out of Africa about 70,000 years ago.
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  #37  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 7:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Can somebody smarter than me explain how they know what the skin pigmant was?

Like I get that you can find things like hairs and reconstructed features based on the bones but how do they know how brown or not brown some 10000 year old person was?
Because we now understand the DNA related to pigmentation quite well. There are a handful of mutations which explain most of why Europeans lightened from African-level dark to "white." Cheddar Man (and all Mesolithic Western Europeans) lacked all of these, meaning they had dark brown to black skin and hair - though they did have the gene for blue eyes. As you headed eastward into Europe, skin got paler, but eyes got darker.

The later farmers who came from the Near East were paler, though still rather swarthy - more or less similar in terms of skin tone to modern Near Easterners. The earliest Indo-Europeans would have been recognizable as being "white" but they were probably more like Southern Europeans in terms of coloration.

The modern, northern European ultra-pale look with blond hair and blue eyes is something which happened very recently, as skin/hair/eye color seems to have been continually selected to be lighter and lighter in Europe even through the Middle Ages.

There actually were earlier groups of people with pale skin, blond hair, and blue eyes - like Mesolithic Scandinavians - but they appear to have died out leaving no modern descendants.
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  #38  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 7:30 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Modern humans are actually a subspecies of homo sapiens. We are homo sapiens sapiens. All of the other homo sapiens groups died out or were overtaken by our subspecies through competition. All of the people alive today descended from a group of homo sapiens that first started to migrate out of Africa about 70,000 years ago.
That's one theory.
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  #39  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 7:32 PM
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Because we now understand the DNA related to pigmentation quite well. There are a handful of mutations which explain most of why Europeans lightened from African-level dark to "white." Cheddar Man (and all Mesolithic Western Europeans) lacked all of these, meaning they had dark brown to black skin and hair - though they did have the gene for blue eyes. As you headed eastward into Europe, skin got paler, but eyes got darker.

The later farmers who came from the Near East were paler, though still rather swarthy - more or less similar in terms of skin tone to modern Near Easterners. The earliest Indo-Europeans would have been recognizable as being "white" but they were probably more like Southern Europeans in terms of coloration.

The modern, northern European ultra-pale look with blond hair and blue eyes is something which happened very recently, as skin/hair/eye color seems to have been continually selected to be lighter and lighter in Europe even through the Middle Ages.

There actually were earlier groups of people with pale skin, blond hair, and blue eyes - like Mesolithic Scandinavians - but they appear to have died out leaving no modern descendants.
And isn't that amazing how quickly skin will lighten. We know for a fact that a thousand years ago, Britons were white. So this whitening of the flesh happens fairly quickly.
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  #40  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2019, 7:37 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Modern humans are actually a subspecies of homo sapiens. We are homo sapiens sapiens. All of the other homo sapiens groups died out or were overtaken by our subspecies through competition. All of the people alive today descended from a group of homo sapiens that first started to migrate out of Africa about 70,000 years ago.
h. sapiens sapiens also went out on the first wave but didn't get very far. Not like the second wave 70,000 years ago where they competed with and eventually drove (or bred out) other human species into extinction...well almost.
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